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Yet another Scrapper Scoundrel/Concealment Operative player asking for compensation


Aurinax

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There are numerous people saying truly that their pvp geared toons are dying in seconds to Ops, myself included. It is not a lie. The only people saying that are Ops fighting for the status quo.

 

They need a nerf, badly. When a class is OP you dont buff it in some other area to "compensate" for the nerf, that makes no sense. You simply nerf it down to where it should have been. Ops are fine- its not the end of th world.

 

Maybe your your class will need skill instead of facerolling everyone.

 

Are you really that clueless?

 

If BW balanced Sc/Ops PvE DPS around where they are now (not even mentioning PvP) then nerfs with no PvE compensation leaves the AC severely weakened!

 

The OP never even called for the nerfs to be lessened or removed, just to have some portion of damage shifted to longer duration DoTs. It would keep things balanced in PvE and give them a small fighting chance if they somehow survive the (now sure to come) retaliation from anybody they attack.

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Seeing players with 17k health get killed in seconds is pretty nasty.

 

See this right here is an example of the gross exaggeration rampant on these forums. I'd love to know how many seconds you're talking about here. Also what kind of gear are we talking about?

 

Fact, a Scoundrel/Operative is not killing a 17k target in anything less then 10-seconds, and if people had the brains to use their snare/stun breakers, there is a solid chance the scoundrel/operative will need a lot more than 10-seconds.

 

This is based on a gear gap between the two, anything to the contrary is hyperbole.

 

People can talk all they want about this, but the blam-you're-dead days ended with the last patch and the nerf to consumables.

 

But hey people keep talking as if you know something, I'm sure when you hit that Submit Reply button a warm feeling similar to that first hot beverage after shoveling snow settles over you.

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It was needed, sorry.

 

No, what was needed was a pvp adjustment, not a nerf to our sustained damage in PvE that will force people to go lethality to be brought into raids (as if being 99% melee reliant wasn't bad enough). I could give two ***** about pvp, you can make my hs do 1 damage as long as it gives me TA.

 

 

This change seems fair and not heavy handed. If you are a scoundrel/Op that is upset on this thread I'd recommend playing other classes to higher levels in pvp to see how it feels by comparison.

 

 

I'd recommend looking past 2 meters in front of you and realize this isn't just a pvp nerf, and they hit us way hard where it was NOT needed - PvE. I guarantee you, if you ask any raider that's been past normal ev, "Do operatives do too much damage?" , will not even give you a response. You'll probably hear hysterical laughter. The nerf should've been compensated with some sort of sustain buff, where it lies in now is just ludicrious to raiders.

Edited by Paralassa
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No, what was needed was a pvp adjustment, not a nerf to our sustained damage in PvE that will force people to go lethality to be brought into raids (as if being 99% melee reliant wasn't bad enough). I could give two ***** about pvp, you can make my hs do 1 damage as long as it gives me TA.

 

I feel sorry for you man PVE is going to become a ****.

Edited by Paralassa
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Operatives(and I believe also Scoundrels) are terribly powerful right now, a lower level op can break my *********** Guardian on Tank mode in warzones, just take the *********** hit.

 

Furthermore, I'm sure this wasn't changed because of qq, more likely due to statistics we have no access to.

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I play an OP and this is not that bad of a nerf. Everyone here is crying bloody murder. We will still have some of the best burst dmg in the game pve and pvp wise.

 

Right, normal mode FP's we'll still be kings. HM probably,too. Forget about raiding outside of lethality if that armor pen nerf goes through, it overshadows concealment in usefulness in anything past normal mode already, that goes through, concealment goes out the window.

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This nerf kills concealment in both pvp and pve.

 

The acid blade nerf is unwarranted.

 

 

Pvp right now is pretty tough as is. Bioware shouldn't be listening to level 30s concerning balance, because quite frankly level 30s don't know what they are talking about.

 

 

 

In level 50 warzones, operatives are already leaning heavily on the use of cloaking screen to kill heavy armored classes. This nerf will make it so you can't kill anything but an unbubbled sorc for 2 minutes.

 

 

 

This nerf will make killing mercs and commandos almost impossible. A fight between an operative/scoundrel and merc/commando will look something like:

 

Hidden strike>Merc/trooper gets up with 70% health> CCs operative> heals> proceeds to face roll the operative.

Edited by GeoLager
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This nerf kills concealment in both pvp and pve.

 

The acid blade nerf is unwarranted.

 

 

Pvp right now is pretty tough as is. Bioware shouldn't be listening to level 30s concerning balance, because quite frankly level 30s don't know what they are talking about.

 

 

 

In level 50 warzones, operatives are already leaning heavily on the use of cloaking screen to kill heavy armored classes. This nerf will make it so you can't kill anything but an unbubbled sorc for 2 minutes.

 

 

 

This nerf will make killing mercs and commandos almost impossible. A fight between an operative/scoundrel and merc/commando will look something like:

 

Hidden strike>Merc/trooper gets up with 70% health> CCs operative> heals> proceeds to face roll the operative.

 

This change will barely affect PvE damage output. The reduction to armor penetration on FR/AB does not impact most relevant progression encounters since bosses don't have tons of armor and Sunder is a debuff that every serious raid carries.

 

Also, if you were relying on killing someone before they got up from the ground -- or at the very least having them mostly dead -- there is a larger problem with the class. Of course, there IS a larger problem with the class, and it's that people are dead or mostly dead before they get up!

 

Scoundrels/Operatives like to pull out the "use your CC break!" card when people talk about being stunned for 3 seconds while losing 80% of their HP, so I'll suggest that you do the same when that Trooper/BH CCs you.

 

You also have some great tools to close gaps or keep your enemy from escaping. You may not really know about them since you have never had to use them before, given that you can just kill people before they can do much of anything in response at the moment.

 

Also, DPS classes should not be tearing through heavily-armored tanks the way Scoundrels/Operatives are at the moment. That's why the armor penetration on FR/AB is coming down.

 

The world is not going to end. You are going to be fine.

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The worst of it all is us as players really have no way to know just how much of a nerf this is vs. what other classes can do in PvE. No combat logs and no ability to parse combat data means we either simply have to believe Bioware might be doing the right thing, or get mad about over-nerfs. I believe this is an over-nerf, but BW knows we can only guess since they don't give us the tools to prove it.
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This change will barely affect PvE damage output. The reduction to armor penetration on FR/AB does not impact most relevant progression encounters since bosses don't have tons of armor and Sunder is a debuff that every serious raid carries.

 

Also, if you were relying on killing someone before they got up from the ground -- or at the very least having them mostly dead -- there is a larger problem with the class. Of course, there IS a larger problem with the class, and it's that people are dead or mostly dead before they get up!

 

Scoundrels/Operatives like to pull out the "use your CC break!" card when people talk about being stunned for 3 seconds while losing 80% of their HP, so I'll suggest that you do the same when that Trooper/BH CCs you.

 

You also have some great tools to close gaps or keep your enemy from escaping. You may not really know about them since you have never had to use them before, given that you can just kill people before they can do much of anything in response at the moment.

 

Also, DPS classes should not be tearing through heavily-armored tanks the way Scoundrels/Operatives are at the moment. That's why the armor penetration on FR/AB is coming down.

 

The world is not going to end. You are going to be fine.

 

 

derpity derp derp

 

The armor penetration is a self buff making it additive to debuffs on NPCs.

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derpity derp derp

 

The armor penetration is a self buff making it additive to debuffs on NPCs.

 

derp derp derp

 

That's obvious, but it subtracts from the already-debuffed armor, not the base value, and therefore has less impact on a sundered target.

 

Learn about your own class.

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  • 2 weeks later...
As someone who plays both a Shadow and a Scoundrel I would like to assure you that you cannot possibly imagine how much better life is for Scoundrels at the moment:

 

As a Shadow I am constantly having to "build up" my abilities or wait on procs to use my most powerful attacks. As a Scoundrel I press a button and follow a rotation.

 

As a Shadow I am constantly starved for Force thanks to have expensive my abilities are. As a Scoundrel I can maintain a nearly-full energy bar indefinitely assuming I manage my abilities properly and remember to hit my "Pugnacity" button on-cooldown.

 

As a Shadow I have zero burst damage coming out of stealth. As a Scoundrel my burst damage is immense and also applies a free stun and a strong DoT.

 

As a Shadow I have one proc that gives me a single attack that ignores 50% of my target's armor, and the proc has a 10 second internal cooldown. As a Scoundrel I have a permanent 50% armor penetration buff.

 

As a Shadow I am completely out of luck if my target gets more than 10m away from me, and have dramatically limited options once they are more than 4m away. As a Scoundrel I have MANY instant attacks with 30m of range at my disposal, a handful of charged attacks with the same range, and some very powerful attacks with 10m of range.

 

And my favorite: Scoundrels have Smuggle, but I can't do the same thing with the Force when on my Shadow.

 

 

Something tells me that Scoundrels are going to be JUST FINE after this nerf.

 

I have to comment on this post...I know it's late and all, but really. This is complete bolloks. My step-son plays a Shadow, tanking tree, and is almost immune to death, period. He was taking on Heroic 4 missions by himself, just because he could not die. Even in PVP he would be the last man standing, nearly all the time. You CANNOT compare the two classes because a Shadow is sustained, not burst. Plus the shadow has a few interrupts that can keep a healer from casting a damn thing...I've seen it in action, scoundrels have the one interrupt, that's pretty much it...other than their stun, which is useless after you have used shoot first, due to resolve. At the time of this writing, I have a 44 Scoundrel, and at my level I have some issues in taking out elite+ mobs solo...just because I can't sustain the damage output needed to kill it before it kills me. I eventually have to drop back to healing to survive, just because I'm so darned squishy.

 

Against bosses with AOE, I'm even more useless, pretty much having to drop fully back to healing because those AOE's can hurt. So I need that burst damage off the start to get in my digs before falling back.

 

If you are having that much difficulty playing a Shadow and unable to hold your own, then maybe try something else, it obviously isn't your best suit.

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I also want to make a comment on the CC breaks of a scoundrel. You say we have many ways of getting out of trouble...when that's not really the case.

 

We have ONE CC break, which is a one shot deal on a cooldown too long to be used again in combat, and to make it worse, it does NOT grant immunity to CC for a duration afterwards, like a few other classes I know. After you pop it, that's it...you better hope whatever is dead.

 

We have our vanish, but kinda useless if we get nailed with a dot...and since the CC break is a 1 shot deal, it's not too hard to reapply a dot to keep them from staying stealthed, been in that situation before.

 

Other than those two things, there isn't any other escape plans...it's pretty much pop out from stealth, do your piece and if it isn't dead, then you are toast...considering we have no other way to catch up to somebody if they move away. Sure, we have a slowing shot...but once again, kinda useless after their resolve bar gets filled up from first strike KO. So, make your distance, and laugh hysterically at the scoundrel trying desperately to catch up while popping shots with his primary fire and vital shot.

 

If they wanted to take out the burst damage...then fine, but for crying out loud, give us more survivability, more CC break, or defense, a closing move of some sort...I don't know, just don't strip away the only thing they have going for them without giving something in return. Kinda thinking I may take my 50 Commando back to DPS and put my scoundrel to healing...if it wasn't for the fact I love stealth strikes, I'd do it now.

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If a game shall be truely balanced in both PvE and PvP, every ability needs to have a PvE function AND a PvP function. In this way you can tune one of the functions without having to imbalance the other.

 

This is the way taunts work in SWTOR and I see no reason why this is the same for every other ability.

 

MMOs have always suffered from the PvE vs PvP problem and developers need to decide which side the will focus on. But it will never be truely balanced.

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  • 2 months later...

I think what a lot of people dont understand about scrapper scoundrals is the burst dmg is all we have. We dont have many abilities that can keep it up after we unstealth AND once we are unstealthed we can NOT use our burst dmg moves unless people stop hitting us and we out of combat. PVP wise i usually just pick off with half HP cause its a team effort but anyone can pick off "scraps". Im not the best player and honestly this is just from personal experience i probally just suck but for me what defines scroundral is a "glass cannon" cause we have no knockback or movement+ (exluding our in combat stealth) which all classes seem to have. They keep degrading our openers and feltchetee round what else is really left? our stuns? cause im pretty sure every class in the game has at least 1 or 2 stuns and even more CC that arnt stuns.

 

in 1on1 sure it we have the advantage and ya if ur gear is gimp ur goin to hurt but as a team member we bring nothing to the table except maybe stealth in which shadows are more versatile. This is just my opinion but ya... feel free to say if u disagree

Edited by Lilmagex
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