Jump to content

Yet another Scrapper Scoundrel/Concealment Operative player asking for compensation


Aurinax

Recommended Posts

(Republic terms in Cyan, Imperial terms in Red)

 

So if 1.1.1 goes live in its current state, I as a Scrapper Scoundrel (Concealment Operative) stand to completely lose the following:

 

My ability to apply burst damage (Shoot First [Hidden Strike] damage being reduced by 20%)

 

Most of my control (full resolve bar I'm assuming for 1.5 seconds shaved off of my most important "stun")

 

A large part of my ability to apply sustained damage (Reducing the armor penetration provided by Flechette Round [Acid Blade] from 50% to 30%)

 

With this same patch, I currently stand to gain:

 

<TBD>

 

The only job my chosen spec could perform well is being removed from it: burst damage with manageable in-combat damage, with very good surprise-oriented single target control. This would not be a problem normally; I understand that heavy frontload on a Damage-dealing class can cause problems, in both PVP and PVE. However, we received nothing in return.

 

This is the "Nerf PVE unnecessarily in an attempt to un-break pvp" path that WoW has gone down, and it's not a good one. Here are my proposed changes:

 

Increase Flechette Round's (Acid Blade's) duration from 6 to 12 seconds, but do not stretch the current damage over it... add 6 more seconds worth of ticks.

-The compensation for this can be reduction of the total damage dealt by the Damage over Time component by ~10%. The only reason it shouldn't be reduced by more is because it does require the target's back and melee range to apply.

 

-Reasoning: This would make the DoT less bursty, but doubling the duration while only losing 10% total damage from it would make it a very solid amount of internal damage over time, which would give us a boost to sustained damage.

 

Increase Vital Shot(Corrosive Dart)'s total damage dealt by ~30%.

 

-Reasoning: This would further increase our capacity for sustained damage. Currently the DoT is fairly weak, and serves mainly to prevent restealthing/node capture by the target. The only reason I don't think the increase should be higher (50+ % range) is because this effect can be applied at range, and with no cooldown.

 

Allow Lucky Dodge (Avoidance Training) to grant immunity to all movement impairing effects and increase movement speed by 70% for 3 seconds, in addition to its current benefit of removing all hostile effects.

 

-Reasoning: On a 1 minute cooldown, this is a very reasonable allowance. As powerful as immunity to movement impairment is, the short duration and relatively moderate cooldown would still require smart use on the part of the user. This would considerably increase our viability in unstealthed hand to hand combat.

 

I believe these changes would not only allow the Scrapper to continue to be competitive in PVP environments, but provide them with already much-needed improvements to sustained PVE DPS.

 

Please consider these changes, or something similar to them. I will be posting this here, in the PVP forum, and in the General Discussion forum for anyone's consideration and feedback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Yep, I don't think I've ever seen a class nerfed so hard in one go. This is simply not the way you balance classes, and it does not inspire confidence.

 

You adjust one thing a little, see how it goes, and if it's not enough, you turn it down a little more or turn something else down.

 

This castrates Operatives and Scoundrels. Burst damage is considerably knocked down, and sustained damage (which was lacking already, as is to be expected in a burst-dependent class) will be practically non-existent.

 

I have to think it's a response to forum whines and nothing else, as these classes are a pain for the popular 'caster' classes.

Edited by PibbyPib
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe the Devs wanted the fights to have more counter play and last longer - Operatives and Scoundrels burst was messing with that and did need to be toned down.

 

Seeing players with 17k health get killed in seconds is pretty nasty.

 

I admit I've only played my operative up to 23 and don't know much from personal

experience - but the burst definitely needed some toning down. A 20% reduction on

hidden strike sounds good - hell, I'd take off more than that if I could.

 

Also, having to get biochem is not counter play - before anyone says this again. And no I did

not "just get owned by an op/scoundrel" I play a tankassin luckily and don't have many issues

with them myself.

 

Edit: The class probably would need more utility with over the top nerfs, I agree.

Edited by Kuvi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you saying you operatives/scoundrals don't need a nerf? Because they're probably one of the most OP classes atm, at least if they go dmg spec in pvp. If a class can stun me for 6 seconds (i'm in full champion gear, by-the-by) and kill me before or a little after the 6 seconds is up, i'd call it OP.

 

I'm a gunslinger, one of 2 primary DPS classes in this game, and neither I nor a sentinel/marauder can do that sort of dmg in such a short time frame. You guys get survivabilty (heals) + stuns and dmg that can kill one person with such ease it's not even funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly this patch if it goes live like this, is putting me right on the edge of cancelling. Knee jerk nerfing classes based on pre 50 PVP, after they just nerfed burst damage across the board by nerfing the adrenals/warzone buffs, is not how you run a game. No combat log, so we can't actually see who is doing what damage. Major messups with every patch. Huge loading times between zones, this is turning into a rant. Anyhoot. Agree with OP.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you saying you operatives/scoundrals don't need a nerf? Because they're probably one of the most OP classes atm, at least if they go dmg spec in pvp. If a class can stun me for 6 seconds (i'm in full champion gear, by-the-by) and kill me before or a little after the 6 seconds is up, i'd call it OP.

 

I'm a gunslinger, one of 2 primary DPS classes in this game, and neither I nor a sentinel/marauder can do that sort of dmg in such a short time frame. You guys get survivabilty (heals) + stuns and dmg that can kill one person with such ease it's not even funny.

 

They can't stun you for 6 seconds. Everything else you said is useless because your probably lying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ops are pretty darn close to Alpha. I called it in beta after getting one to 40-- you could see where the class was heading in terms of relative power. People always seem to forget that burst is king in PvP. Reminded me somewhat of beta Saboteurs in Rift.

 

But people were too busy whining about Sorcerers because they hadn't gone past level 25 yet. Ops fell through the cracks.

 

So yes, they will get overnerfed. Developers don't know any other way.

Edited by Mannic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you saying you operatives/scoundrals don't need a nerf? Because they're probably one of the most OP classes atm, at least if they go dmg spec in pvp. If a class can stun me for 6 seconds (i'm in full champion gear, by-the-by) and kill me before or a little after the 6 seconds is up, i'd call it OP.

 

I'm a gunslinger, one of 2 primary DPS classes in this game, and neither I nor a sentinel/marauder can do that sort of dmg in such a short time frame. You guys get survivabilty (heals) + stuns and dmg that can kill one person with such ease it's not even funny.

 

This is exactly why you can't base balancing decisions on forum QQ. This post is complete BS.

 

As for a nerf being needed, I can see how they might want to turn down the initial burst damage, a bit. Even the 20% is fine-- people could adjust to that. But they'd need to turn sustained damage *up* to compensate, not gut it even more than burst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is exactly why you can't base balancing decisions on forum QQ. This post is complete BS.

 

As for a nerf being needed, I can see how they might want to turn down the initial burst damage, a bit. Even the 20% is fine-- people could adjust to that. But they'd need to turn sustained damage *up* to compensate, not gut it even more than burst.

 

20% burst reduction on hidden strike alone would leave them still at a strong point

with burst - if that was the nerf alone they wouldn't need to change anything else,

in my opinion.

Edited by Kuvi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who plays both a Shadow and a Scoundrel I would like to assure you that you cannot possibly imagine how much better life is for Scoundrels at the moment:

 

As a Shadow I am constantly having to "build up" my abilities or wait on procs to use my most powerful attacks. As a Scoundrel I press a button and follow a rotation.

 

As a Shadow I am constantly starved for Force thanks to have expensive my abilities are. As a Scoundrel I can maintain a nearly-full energy bar indefinitely assuming I manage my abilities properly and remember to hit my "Pugnacity" button on-cooldown.

 

As a Shadow I have zero burst damage coming out of stealth. As a Scoundrel my burst damage is immense and also applies a free stun and a strong DoT.

 

As a Shadow I have one proc that gives me a single attack that ignores 50% of my target's armor, and the proc has a 10 second internal cooldown. As a Scoundrel I have a permanent 50% armor penetration buff.

 

As a Shadow I am completely out of luck if my target gets more than 10m away from me, and have dramatically limited options once they are more than 4m away. As a Scoundrel I have MANY instant attacks with 30m of range at my disposal, a handful of charged attacks with the same range, and some very powerful attacks with 10m of range.

 

And my favorite: Scoundrels have Smuggle, but I can't do the same thing with the Force when on my Shadow.

 

 

Something tells me that Scoundrels are going to be JUST FINE after this nerf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly this patch if it goes live like this, is putting me right on the edge of cancelling. Knee jerk nerfing classes based on pre 50 PVP, after they just nerfed burst damage across the board by nerfing the adrenals/warzone buffs, is not how you run a game. No combat log, so we can't actually see who is doing what damage. Major messups with every patch. Huge loading times between zones, this is turning into a rant. Anyhoot. Agree with OP.

 

pre 50 pvp?

 

ill be damned..

 

At 16k life on my consular an operative can darn near kill me while I am incapacitated This with 450 expertise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're*

 

and what class do you play? please tell me.

 

The point is here, that they can't stun you for 6 seconds. So let me help you out and give you the lowdown on shoot first. Since your level 50 geared champion something or another, I assume you already know this, but I'm gonna tell you again. Shoot first is a 3 second stun and X damage. 3 second stun gives you a full resolve bar. You cannot be stunned again by anything for I don't know, like 10 seconds +. /sarcasm.

 

If you ever did get stunned for 6 seconds by a stealth opener from an OP/Scoundrel its because your resolve bar didn't function correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is exactly why you can't base balancing decisions on forum QQ. This post is complete BS.

 

As for a nerf being needed, I can see how they might want to turn down the initial burst damage, a bit. Even the 20% is fine-- people could adjust to that. But they'd need to turn sustained damage *up* to compensate, not gut it even more than burst.

 

Try playing a BH and being overheated after one full damage rotation when your target's at half health and having to burn a CD to get him down to 20% health, then being overheated again. And you'll stay overheated until you can get out of combat and heal. If you can't get out of combat it's auto-attack / auto-attack / auto-attack in between being able to use a real attack every 7-8 seconds or so. Ops don't realize how good they have it unless they've played another class up to a high level.

Edited by Mannic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is exactly why you can't base balancing decisions on forum QQ. This post is complete BS.

 

As for a nerf being needed, I can see how they might want to turn down the initial burst damage, a bit. Even the 20% is fine-- people could adjust to that. But they'd need to turn sustained damage *up* to compensate, not gut it even more than burst.

 

Because the devs probably don't play the game (sarcasm) or you dont play the game (possibility) or you play a scoundral/operative (high possibility) and have never set foot in a pvp match at lvl 50.

 

If you walk into a WZ and, at lvl 50, and ask people "What is the most OP class atm?" they'll tell you operative or scoundral. Why? Burst. Lots and lots of burst dmgs.

 

The point is here, that they can't stun you for 6 seconds. So let me help you out and give you the lowdown on shoot first. Since your level 50 geared champion something or another, I assume you already know this, but I'm gonna tell you again. Shoot first is a 3 second stun and X damage. 3 second stun gives you a full resolve bar. You cannot be stunned again by anything for I don't know, like 10 seconds +. /sarcasm.

 

If you ever did get stunned for 6 seconds by a stealth opener from an OP/Scoundrel its because your resolve bar didn't function correctly.

 

I like how you totally avoided my question about which class you play. I find that to be slightly funny... I also like how you respond with a hostile air to your posts, but that's besides the point here.

 

I get double stunned. That's getting stunned TWICE, not once, TWICE. So my resolve bar must not be functioning if that's the case.

 

Also look at this, I dirty kick somebody (4 second stun) and it doesn't fill their resolve bar up. I can throw a flash grenade at them (8 second interuptable stun) and THEN it fills up, so a double stun is very doable.

Edited by Barathos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm calling BS. Your saying that you can go from 16k+shield to 0 in 3 GCD? Wrong. Thanks for playing.

 

Thanks for not reading.. I f my shield is up ill survive, but since there is this thing called stealth, I can not always have it up before being ambushed. In addition I did not say dead, but darn near dead... In the long run I am dead anyways because he would have full life and I would be low life.. There is nothing anyone can do to counter that situation. Best you can do is try and cc and run away, but that rarely works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try playing a BH and being overheated when your target's at half health and having to burn a CD to finish him off, then being overheated again until you can get out of combat and heal. Ops don't realize how good they have it unless they've played another class up to a high level.

 

I have, actually. I don't think you've played an Operative/Scoundrel to high level. Burning a CD to finish people off is not unusual at all. And even that's not going to do it once these nerfs go through.

 

I just hope people remember how happy they were to see one class gutted when their own turn comes around. Everyone gets to be the Whine of the Month eventually.

Edited by PibbyPib
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have, actually. I don't think you've played an Operative/Scoundrel to high level. Burning a CD to finish people off is not unusual at all course. And even that's not going to do it once these nerfs go through.

 

I just hope people remember how happy they were to see one class gutted when their own turn comes around. Everyone gets to be the Whine of the Month eventually.

 

This post seems a little biased, no offence.

 

Most Operatives on my server will be the first to tell you they are too strong, and

plenty that I've seen on the forums.

 

I believe they would fall under the anti-fun mechanic at the moment because they

don't give as much room for counter reactions as they are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have, actually. I don't think you've played an Operative/Scoundrel to high level. Burning a CD to finish people off is not unusual at all. And even that's not going to do it once these nerfs go through.

 

I just hope people remember how happy they were to see one class gutted when their own turn comes around. Everyone gets to be the Whine of the Month eventually.

 

You play an operative, I see.

 

When my class in WoW and EQ2 got nerfed, I actually knew why. I was OP at the time, my pet (I played a hunter) could rip ANYBODY to shreds in seconds. It felt amazing to kill somebody that quickly, when the nerf came I knew why and I didn't say a word about it.

 

So no whine from me about class nerfage. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This post seems a little biased, no offence.

 

Most Operatives on my server will be the first to tell you they are too strong, and

plenty that I've seen on the forums.

 

I believe they would fall under the anti-fun mechanic at the moment because they

don't give as much room for counter reactions as they are now.

 

Many OPs would trade burst for more sustained DPs and some survivability. If this patch goes through, once you leave stealth your goose is cooked. There needs to be some counterbalances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.