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(Guardian PvP) Vigilance spec needs help


MadManP

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Am I the only one slightly dissapointed with the damage output of Vigilance?

 

There are a couple of changes I would love to see to this tree... the relience on master strike for example is horrible for PvP where people easily run out of range of your final and most damaging swing. And speaking of master strike... what a horrible idea to give a melee character a power that requires him to stand still...

 

and Plasma brand's dot lasts 3 seconds longer than the cooldown... meaning you shave damage off by re-applying it when ready...

 

If master strike could be channeled while moving and plasma brand did it's damage in 9 seconds instead of 12... this tree might actually be worth a damn in PvP

 

Or is this just me?

Anyone else agree with this?

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I agree completely I think the Vigilance tree is a lot for fun then the cookie cutter focus spec but its no where near as effective in pvp. Focus spec is great but its so one dimensional force sweep then wait for the next force sweep. I would love to see some buffs to Vigilance
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I agree completely I think the Vigilance tree is a lot for fun then the cookie cutter focus spec but its no where near as effective in pvp. Focus spec is great but its so one dimensional force sweep then wait for the next force sweep. I would love to see some buffs to Vigilance

 

Not having many issues with Vigilance in PvP, Plasma Brand and OH Slash are just brutal! Yes your armor mitigation takes a hit for the added dps, but having a nice elemental dot to hit your foe with and many other skills to follow up, we are anything but low dps.

 

Maybe your rotations or priority of skills to use under certain situations?

 

Add 3 pts into momentum in the Defender tree, you should be following up any leap with blade storm every chance you get. Buy +power stims to use that last 15 seconds, use a holocron you have slotted that gives +surge and +crit with this... and you will find some good damage bursts with all these skills.

 

It takes time and patience, and understanding how to chain your attacks together efficiently.

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Not having many issues with Vigilance in PvP, Plasma Brand and OH Slash are just brutal! Yes your armor mitigation takes a hit for the added dps, but having a nice elemental dot to hit your foe with and many other skills to follow up, we are anything but low dps.

 

Maybe your rotations or priority of skills to use under certain situations?

 

Add 3 pts into momentum in the Defender tree, you should be following up any leap with blade storm every chance you get. Buy +power stims to use that last 15 seconds, use a holocron you have slotted that gives +surge and +crit with this... and you will find some good damage bursts with all these skills.

 

It takes time and patience, and understanding how to chain your attacks together efficiently.

 

We're not low DPS in PvE... I agree compleatly, but that's because mobs usually stand still for the duration of master strike, which if you pay attention to the tree is 1 of the 4damage abilities that we have to priorities.

 

In PvP master strike is utterly worthless, even when slowed people have plenty of time to move out of range before the third strike lands.

 

I think it's fair that it can be interrupted, but the fact that we have to stand still to channel it seems silly to me, we're a melee class we have to be mobile in PvP, since ranged classes will want to kite us and we want to chase them.

 

So taking master strike out of the equation, we're left with plasma brand, OH slash, and blade storm... already we've lost a little of our dps and then we have a problem with plasma brand as well which has a dot that lasts 3 seconds longer than it's cooldown, thus making us shave valuable damage off we re-apply it when ready.

 

Say what you will, but If Bioware either let us move during master strike or gave us the ability to immobilize them for the duration, and lowered Plamsa Brand's DoT duration this tree would be able to do very well in PvP.

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My only real issues with Vigi is that we can become Focus starved really easily with efficient rotations in PVE where the tank is taking all the damage. I refuse to waste a GCD on Strike. Its damage is incredibly low and I have more important skills off CD at the time.

 

I feel like our PVP build could be a little too reliant on setting up our Blade Storm/Dispatch crits with expensive skills (PB/OH Slash), but this could be alleviated by making our minor DoTs (on Blade Storm/OH Slash) stronger. I use them both just so I can keep stealthers from escaping. Their damage is really low.

 

Also, our tree needs to drop the Master Strike talent. I would never use it, not even in PVP. MS has very low priority and usually only sees use when I'm low on Focus or I'm waiting on a bunch of CDs. Something that would increase critical hit damage (sort of like a Surge talent) would make a lot more sense.

 

edit - I forgot to add that the CD on Sundering Strike is way too long. I'm not saying it should be spammable every GCD, but I should be able to use it at least every other ability. This is part of my other issue, but we have too much downtime in PVE with the way Shien form works.

Edited by knowitall
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Ive already made a thread adressing these concerns somewhat. The location where we have 30% chance to reset the cooldown of master strike (on a 9sec CD itself) every other dps class I have played has a +30% crit dmg to 2 or 3 skills.

 

Id love to see our reliance on master strike removed and +30% crit damage added to overhead slash, blade storm, and plasma brand.

 

And yes, plasma brand badly needs its dot lowered to 9 seconds. Im not exactly sure what they were thinking giving us a 12 sec dot on a 9 sec skill so that we have to clip damage off of it to reapply it. Someone dropped the ball on that one.

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hey man, vigilance is alright man, i do pretty good damage. I made a video that i just uploaded today of me doing vigilance dps in pvp

 

 

im thinking about going focus but the focus tree doesnt look that good but apprently people are telling me its the best pvp spec out there atm but ill try it soon.

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Am I the only one slightly dissapointed with the damage output of Vigilance?

 

There are a couple of changes I would love to see to this tree... the relience on master strike for example is horrible for PvP where people easily run out of range of your final and most damaging swing. And speaking of master strike... what a horrible idea to give a melee character a power that requires him to stand still...

 

and Plasma brand's dot lasts 3 seconds longer than the cooldown... meaning you shave damage off by re-applying it when ready...

 

If master strike could be channeled while moving and plasma brand did it's damage in 9 seconds instead of 12... this tree might actually be worth a damn in PvP

 

Or is this just me?

Anyone else agree with this?

 

Master Strike is not horrible in pvp, it is situational. Just time it for when a player is stunned. As most pvp is a group situation you can usually rely on someone else to apply that stun for you. The moment you see a stun -> Master Strike.

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Plasma Brand needs to have the Sundering Strike requirement removed and it'll be a LOT better than it is now. Honestly, the prerequisite is the single most agitating thing about the ability. Otherwise, I'd rather have it do more up-front damage and have a less substantial dot. Guardians need better BURST potential, not drawn out damage. In a perfect world, the damage of the ability would be scaled back 20% and it would all be one single hit, similar to Overhead Slash. PB is just underwhelming as a 31 point ability.

 

Honestly, other than that, Vigilance isn't terrible. It's not great, either, though. I think if our gearset was slightly different, Vig/Veng would be a lot better. The lack of Surge and adequate levels of crit really hurt the build, as well. Honestly, if we had enough Surge to get 75% or 80% crit damage on top of 30% crit rate, Vigilance would be a phenominal spec. Currently, though, it's outpaced by Focus in virtually every regard outside of fun.

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Plasma Brand needs to have the Sundering Strike requirement removed and it'll be a LOT better than it is now. Honestly, the prerequisite is the single most agitating thing about the ability. Otherwise, I'd rather have it do more up-front damage and have a less substantial dot. Guardians need better BURST potential, not drawn out damage. In a perfect world, the damage of the ability would be scaled back 20% and it would all be one single hit, similar to Overhead Slash. PB is just underwhelming as a 31 point ability.

 

Honestly, other than that, Vigilance isn't terrible. It's not great, either, though. I think if our gearset was slightly different, Vig/Veng would be a lot better. The lack of Surge and adequate levels of crit really hurt the build, as well. Honestly, if we had enough Surge to get 75% or 80% crit damage on top of 30% crit rate, Vigilance would be a phenominal spec. Currently, though, it's outpaced by Focus in virtually every regard outside of fun.

 

The prerequisite, the mediocre damage and the high focus cost. If they'd remove the sundering strike prereq, and lowered it's focus to 4 base it wouldn't be so bad.

 

But for 5 focus, 4 after Shien is activated (You still need at least 5 in your pool though) and the prereq of sunder armor and not so good damage?

 

No thanks. Using focus efficiently and preserving it is essential in PvP especially in facing multiple enemies.

 

Blade Storm does more damage than Plasma Brand, it costs less has the same cool down and always has a 60% chance to crit after Force Rush is active.

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vigilance is awesome for pvp once you are 50 and geared. the attacks costing 5 focus isnt an issue at all while using shien form, i never find myself starving for focus. people that complain about this spec are not geared, bad, or haven't even tried it.

 

 

this is the spec i use: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frZIMrRruddMo.1

i have full champ besides chest and weapon, but i use the tier 2 pve weapon and rakata chest piece

Edited by ffuller
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vigilance is awesome for pvp once you are 50 and geared. the attacks costing 5 focus isnt an issue at all while using shien form, i never find myself starving for focus. people that complain about this spec are not geared, bad, or haven't even tried it.

 

couple questions if you don't mind...

1) how hard are you hitting with plasma brand and overhead on 50s with some gear?

2) do you ever feel like you should be guarding with soresu? I end up feeling kinda guilty when I don't run it, lol

3) what kind of gear are you talking about exactly? full bm?

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couple questions if you don't mind...

1) how hard are you hitting with plasma brand and overhead on 50s with some gear?

2) do you ever feel like you should be guarding with soresu? I end up feeling kinda guilty when I don't run it, lol

3) what kind of gear are you talking about exactly? full bm?

 

i edited my post at the same time you posted and answered some of ur questions :p

 

1) plasma brand hits for about 2.2k crit and ticks for 300 a tick. overhead hits for 3.5-4k depending what kind of armor whoever i hit is wearing and how many stacks of sunder armor they have. overall when i have all 3 dots ticking i feel like the dots do really help. the dots also help to keep bad shadows/other classes with in-combat stealth from stealthing.

2) no, i use my aoe taunt/single target taunt/guardian leap when i see someone taking pressure or im in a big team fight not being targeted. im playing a dps spec, so i leave bodyguarding to tank specd players.

3) i use full champ with tier 2 pve weapon and rakata chest peice. i also have biochem at 400 and use the might stim.

Edited by ffuller
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I'm in a mix of champ/centuring gear, so I'll wait until I am better geared. Not bad numbers, though I have to wonder how you'd do with focus.

 

if you enjoy it and feel effective, that's what is important. Glad to finally hear how a *geared* player hits with it, I know most people who I've seen with it haven't been well geared.

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I'm in a mix of champ/centuring gear, so I'll wait until I am better geared. Not bad numbers, though I have to wonder how you'd do with focus.

 

if you enjoy it and feel effective, that's what is important. Glad to finally hear how a *geared* player hits with it, I know most people who I've seen with it haven't been well geared.

 

focus hits hard everyone 20-30 seconds, but i don't find it very fun to play, especially since force sweep tends to miss a lot due to this games engine being terrible.

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focus hits hard everyone 20-30 seconds, but i don't find it very fun to play, especially since force sweep tends to miss a lot due to this games engine being terrible.

 

yeah sweep does miss on people who are moving, it is... frustrating. that is actually why I have been trying to find Vig info. I may try it once I have better gear, but I also am typically needed for guarding our healer so I don't know.

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I am not really seeing the issue with Vigilance spec outside of the Zen Strike upgrade. Master strike may be highly damaging but it is far to situational to be effective in PvP, and for that reason it is not in my regular rotation.

 

I do not notice any problems maintaining Focus while running Shien. It requires proper priming and an efficient rotation. If you open with Saber Throw, Force Leap, and Sundering Strike you'll have a pool of 9 Focus (With the Sundering Strike perk). Follow with Plasma Brand and rotate from there. A rotation that goes SS-PB-FS-SS-OH-BS will still have the free bonus on Blade Storm as well as the crit bonus chance.

 

Vigilance really requires a Crit/Surge build which isn't really all that hard to do. My Guardian has 25% Crit and 77% Multiplier bonus and I'm 0-15 on my Champ bags :p

 

Use the combination of DoTs and decent hitting abilities to bring a target down to 19% Health then you start slinging 3-4k crits on a 6 sec timer.

 

I tried Focus, didn't like it. Its too slow and doesn't flow nearly as well as Vigilance does. That is my opinion at least.

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