Bakarn Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 They did need a nerf. It was stupid that they could more or less outright kill people in a matter of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Sad to say it, but the whines just supported what their internal metrics were already telling them. No developer EVER adjusts based on forum whining. And they may thank you for your 'feedback' BUT their DATA is better than yours. They had just over 24 hours of hard DATA to use after the nerf to consumables went live that enabled the high damage. It was a knee jerk reaction and you can't reasonably argue otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 They had just over 24 hours of hard DATA to use after the nerf to consumables went live that enabled the high damage. It was a knee jerk reaction and you can't reasonably argue otherwise. I can argue that the class was overtuned. Even without the consumables, no class should be able to drop you 70-100% of your life while not able to fight back. (which happens on my marauder with 10.5% damage reduc) But hey, I guess every 2 minutes I get a chance to win. And dellusional players think that is ok. Enjoy hating your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I imagine you're still going to lose to scoundrels, what then cowboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyionx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 "You can win every WZ with out engaging the enemy" That made me laugh the most out of all this. Fail PvPer is fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I imagine you're still going to lose to scoundrels, what then cowboy? Doubt it. Tho if I do get outplayed, i get outplayed! At least I know now that I will have a chance to do something about it. Tho its highly doubtful that this will be the case, since I've yet to get destroyed by any operative/scoundrel spec that is not the one getting nerfted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muldias Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What game you you playing? in SwTor they sure need a nerf. And that minority are you talking about? i have never complained about them or said that they need a nerf, but i agree with it so that minority is bigger then you think. But i understand why you are so sad, from a opener of 7k you are down to 5k, sky is falling. I have full champ gear minus 1 relic and 1 wrist, and even potion stacking since the 50s bracket, my max hit is 5300, those are few and far between since my relic and biochem is on a 2 and 3 min CD and I need to have a soft target with no expertise. I agree before the changes(pot stacking and no 50's bracket) things were out of hand, now, not so much. I'm not one to threaten to quit, and I won't because I've already cancelled my subscription, for this as well as MANY other reasons. If they game isn't playable in my mind by the time march rolls around, I won't be resubscribing, because in my mind, that is the ONLY way to be heard by a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you have played many MMOs in the past, have you? Devs rarely test their own game/use their own metrics before implementing class nerfs. They mainly go by what they see on the forums. If they see a huge thread about x class is OPd, they don't even bother to read the whole thread, they just assume there are so many posts in it because the majority of the posts agree with the OP. When it clearly isn't the case, if Bioware and other Devs read the entirety of every huge nerf x class thread, they would see that the majority of the posts disagree with the original poster; sadly they don't. I can tell you for a fact this is patently wrong. Of course changes are tested internally before being pushed live. And given your signature as a long time MMO player you should know this. The department is called QA testing, i.e. the people who get paid to play and break the game, and in modern MMO's changes are data driven, with quantitative metrics. All the forums do is act as a qualitative/empirical validation to whats already known. In other words Forums are the correlation of changes, not the causation. And developers play on live servers as well as other employees, so if you think someone face planting you and killing you in three shots without no chance in hell to fight back is not going to get attention, from the data, from QA testing, from Forums, and from in game experiance, think again. I know this because like you I am an MMO veteran, since 1993, and I used to be the GM of a server in UO.....as well as other game company gig's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilssen Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The title says it all, Bioware like every other developer caved in to the very vocal forum minority which also usually tends to be some of the very worse MMO players in MMOs. This is the beginning of the end. Scoundrels/Operatives did not need a nerf Bioware, as a healer I say this. You need to test your game and use your own metrics before implementing any class changes in game. Do not go by made up scenarios and imaginary numbers that forum posters use to try to make a point. That's the mistake of past mmo devs that has caused their subscriptions to dwindle in the past and I say that as an MMO veteran since 1997 UO, that has played nearly every MMO since then. You should, if possible release surveys in game to also see how players feel about x and x changes before implementing them. You can also use surveys to see if players think some classes are over the top, currently. You will see that the majority of people that actually play the game at 50, don't feel like the random forum whiners/posers that aren't even 50 yet. You're a moron. The nerf is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm sorry but anyone that defends PVP nerfs with "all the no skilled players keep crying" are full of crap. You obviously play a class that has the current advantage and don't want to see it go away. Get over yourself and look at the game as a whole. You are probably one of the players ruining the game Quit crying and roll a class that takes skill to play. *tissue Bit more abrasive then I usually go. But yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I can tell you for a fact this is patently wrong. Of course changes are tested internally before being pushed live. And given your signature as a long time MMO player you should know this. The department is called QA testing, i.e. the people who get paid to play and break the game, and in modern MMO's changes are data driven, with quantitative metrics. All the forums do is act as a qualitative/empirical validation to whats already known. In other words Forums are the correlation of changes, not the causation. And developers play on live servers as well as other employees, so if you think someone face planting you and killing you in three shots without no chance in hell to fight back is not going to get attention, from the data, from QA testing, from Forums, and from in game experiance, think again. I know this because like you I am an MMO veteran, since 1993, and I used to be the GM of a server in UO.....as well as other game company gig's. Wel well well,say if that's the case then Illum and this nerf to op's is a bellweather of some very flawed in house testing and data on like oohhh i dunno the 50's bracket that had ohh ONE DAY. You know your not the only one that has experience in the gaming industry posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm sorry but anyone that defends PVP nerfs with "all the no skilled players keep crying" are full of crap. You obviously play a class that has the current advantage and don't want to see it go away. Get over yourself and look at the game as a whole. You are probably one of the players ruining the game Quit crying and roll a class that takes skill to play. *tissue Bit more abrasive then I usually go. But yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you have played many MMOs in the past, have you? Devs rarely test their own game/use their own metrics before implementing class nerfs. They mainly go by what they see on the forums. If they see a huge thread about x class is OPd, they don't even bother to read the whole thread, they just assume there are so many posts in it because the majority of the posts agree with the OP. When it clearly isn't the case, if Bioware and other Devs read the entirety of every huge nerf x class thread, they would see that the majority of the posts disagree with the original poster; sadly they don't. Can this guy have his account canceled for saying this? Please? Do you actually believe this? This is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackmaner Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think you have played many MMOs in the past, have you? Devs rarely test their own game/use their own metrics before implementing class nerfs. They mainly go by what they see on the forums. If they see a huge thread about x class is OPd, they don't even bother to read the whole thread, they just assume there are so many posts in it because the majority of the posts agree with the OP. When it clearly isn't the case, if Bioware and other Devs read the entirety of every huge nerf x class thread, they would see that the majority of the posts disagree with the original poster; sadly they don't. So uneducated about the gaming industry. They do test it and they did deserve a small nerf. Simply because there was only 1 logical spec that was over shadowing the others. Even if it's debatable that picking up targets is the only thing Ops are good at, they don't need to down it in 4 seconds and during a single knockdown to do it good. As it is right now you can survive an Ops once every 2 minutes. Hardly PvP imo, since it would require a fight while in this case, this is simply an execution. The problem is that Ops is a class with low utility that has one single quality that is way too developed. His only real PvP utility is that he can stealth and is a great ninja capper. To make the class change correctly and it shouldn't even be called a nerf but mostly a buff, they should lower the opening damage output, stunt/knock efficiency and raise the general utility of the class by adding more useful and less selfish tools to their arsenal. It's not a nerf they need, it's a balancing but to do it, they need to lower their opening power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethivus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 When i think OP, i dont think operative.. When I close my eyes, I see endless purple lightning that stuns you, immediately after a knockback that stuns you. Oh and speed walking through fire. Now that is OP. Why is no one mentioning that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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