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After the nerf, what will an operatives roll be in huttball?


-Rinzler-

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First off: I am a scrapper

 

I am totally ok with most of the nerfs....

 

However I have an issue with the nerfing of the opener's knockdown and acidblade (but not for the reasons you think) I think this is just going to encourage good ops to not take these talents in the first place.

 

I think that what Ops/scrapper could have really used was an alternate opener. Bioware already uses wow as a template so lets have the option of cheapshot/garrote/ambush as opposed to the combo ambush/cheapshot we have now.

 

And last; give us a role in the group. You can make the easy comparison to wow's rogue, the rogue's role (good rogues at least) in group pvp is control. I would love to see a form of gouge in return for these nerfs. Gouge, give us gouge!

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Now they will be on equal ground with assassins burst, less sustained dps, and no utility.

 

Is there any reason to roll an operative over an assassin?

 

 

assassins cant heal themselves or others

you can heal yourself and others

 

 

case dismissed

Edited by psysention
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I got trolled here. I thought the title question was actually a serious one, then I realized that none of the nerfs going on correspond with anything else besides their opening burst. Not their out-of-stealth CCs, not their offensive/defensive CDs, and not their mobility.

 

But I guess it was a useful red herring to try to make it sound like operatives and scoundrels are being told to sit in the corner by the BioWare dev team and were told, "Sit here and don't do anything until we figure out what to do with you." And their fear is that will take several months.

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Why do people who play a class like this think they should be solo killing people? Your job is to finish people off and annoy, not faceroll until your target dies. You pick the weakest target and finish them off. THAT is the job of such classes.
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Lol operatives will still do more damage than any other class.

 

20 percent of 7k = 2300

 

5k damage for an opener isnt the end of the world.

 

your logic is flawed because you're basing it on someone with little to no expertise. Today, I popped my consumables + expertise buff from WZ and guess what my Shoot First (opener) crit for against a BH healer without guard and no blue bubble...4.2k. I am in full champion gear (everything). My back blast (backstab) crit him for less then 2.5k. I have no broken 6.2k since the brackets. And even then, those hits are against lvl 50's with 11-12k hp's which means little to no expertise gear.

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I got trolled here. I thought the title question was actually a serious one, then I realized that none of the nerfs going on correspond with anything else besides their opening burst. Not their out-of-stealth CCs, not their offensive/defensive CDs, and not their mobility.

 

But I guess it was a useful red herring to try to make it sound like operatives and scoundrels are being told to sit in the corner by the BioWare dev team and were told, "Sit here and don't do anything until we figure out what to do with you." And their fear is that will take several months.

 

The acid blade nerf is both a sustained dps nerf and an opener nerf. Also what is this mobility you speak of? :eek:

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Why do people who play a class like this think they should be solo killing people? Your job is to finish people off and annoy, not faceroll until your target dies. You pick the weakest target and finish them off. THAT is the job of such classes.

 

Rogue classes are NOT scavengers...you are sorely mistaken my friend. Rogues are, and always have been the "quick killers" or "gankers." Their job is to go behind enemy lines and eliminate the "support" classes.

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If you mean stealth, I have a surprise for you. And that surprise comes with a 30 second speed cooldown (20 talented). :p

 

I'm well aware that there's another class that has stealth and very high utility as far as control goes. I'm agreeing that operatives are definitely going to need a boost after this, but there has to be an alternative that's better than killing people in very little time (which nullifies all that utility) by yourself just because the moment was opportune. I just think it's rather silly to ask a question like that since nothing really changes in relation to running a Huttball. You will still be providing a distraction for the person you are attacking during plays, whether or not you do kill them before it's too late for them to do anything to your carrier.

Edited by Knifewrench
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I'm well aware that there's another class that has stealth and very high utility as far as control goes. I'm agreeing that operatives are definitely going to need a boost after this, but there has to be an alternative that's better than killing people in very little time (which nullifies all that utility) by yourself just because the moment was opportune. I just think it's rather silly to ask a question like that since nothing really changes in relation to running a Huttball. You will still be providing a distraction for the person you are attacking during plays, whether or not you do kill them before it's too late for them to do anything to your carrier.

 

Well, I think the OP assumes that our role is to kill things quickly, such as the ball carrier, people attacking our ball carrier, or support classes. He further seems to assume that after nerf we won't be able to do that, so what's the point? I'm personally trying out our healing spec right now with mixed results, but it's at least workable. Let's just not talk about lethality haha.

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>no utility

healer, great sustained dps ranged dot tree

 

The dot tree is junk and doesn't work against people who are competent. Dots get dispelled 2 at a time by 3 of 8 ACs. Other ACs like assassins/soundrels not only have a dispell, they have abilities that remove all dots on pretty short cool downs. And the lethality main dot on a 12 second cool down is painfully obvious, giant green gas cloud grenade. Throw it at me, I dispell, you can wait 12 seconds and try again.

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Rogue classes are NOT scavengers...you are sorely mistaken my friend. Rogues are, and always have been the "quick killers" or "gankers." Their job is to go behind enemy lines and eliminate the "support" classes.

 

Yes, people should realize this! I always pick the one guy running around alone or standing too far in the back spamming heal/tracer etc. while his group zergs in front of him. Or the guy that tries to guard the cap point by himself while his idiot friends run to the enemy instead of fighting at the node. Most of the time it's a Level 20+ guy that I pick apart in seconds with my Level 40 Scoundrel, cap the point afterwards and go back to stealth before his friends realize what's going on. That is exactly what the class is made for. 1v1 situations where you exploit your enemies mistakes. We need the burst. I don't know how it is with Level 50, but pre-Level 50 is far from OP! Good BH and Troopers do the same damage if not more. If it is true that we get imba at Level 50 then they should scale it better, not nerf the whole skill tree.

Edited by karcyon
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While we needed a nerf, we also needed more sustained dps outside of stealth. The -20% arp will pretty much stop me from doing nightmare EV as scrapper.

 

We've lost a lot and gained nothing in return. Really uncool and it sets a bad example for how they'll handle endgame balance. Who really didn't see it coming though? They already nerfed Bio/Cybertech for being too strong instead of making the other crafting skills not suck.

 

What were they doing before that got the ball from point A to point B that nobody else could do?

We were busting healers/people camping our ramps.

 

We can't carry the ball. We can't knock anyone off. With the stun nerf we won't even be able to CC people in fires reliably.

Edited by iggiepoo
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obviously u didnt read the nerfs. its just not 20% damage they are losing. they lose half their KO stun and another 20% on armor reduction which seriously gimps their sustained dps after burst

 

Which was totally freaking necessary considering that, when I wear full champion gear, an operative can kill me during the duration of his first stun.

 

Of course I can use unleash and break that stun, in which case he knocks me down and kills me during THAT.

Edited by Viscerus
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Well, I think the OP assumes that our role is to kill things quickly, such as the ball carrier, people attacking our ball carrier, or support classes. He further seems to assume that after nerf we won't be able to do that, so what's the point? I'm personally trying out our healing spec right now with mixed results, but it's at least workable. Let's just not talk about lethality haha.

 

Why should you get to kill things that quickly? HUH?!?

 

I am a freaking marauder.

 

I get NO STUN! NO STEALTH!

 

I wear THE SAME ARMOR as you! Why should you hit 50% harder than me!

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Which was totally freaking necessary considering that, when I where full champion gear, an operative can kill me during the duration of his first stun.

 

Of course I can use unleash and break that stun, in which case he knocks me down and kills me during THAT.

 

Yeah the nerf is becuase operatives/scoundrels were tearing armor based tanks to pieces that were judging from troopers/bh abilities supposed to be a counter to them.

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Marauder is the most kite-able class in the game.

 

LOL? The most kitable class in this game are shadows/assassins. We have no gap closer like a maurader does. If we get kited, our options are to:

 

1) stand there and die while trying to catch up to our enemy. If he snares or slows us, it's gg.

 

2) hope our vanish is off CD.

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LOL? The most kitable class in this game are shadows/assassins. We have no gap closer like a maurader does. If we get kited, our options are to:

 

1) stand there and die while trying to catch up to our enemy. If he snares or slows us, it's gg.

 

2) hope our vanish is off CD.

 

You do have a 10m stun. Marauders have no stun.

 

You make a lot out of Force charge, but it is on a 15 sec CD and every other class in teh game has a knockback.

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You do have a 10m stun. Marauders have no stun.

 

You make a lot out of Force charge, but it is on a 15 sec CD and every other class in teh game has a knockback.

 

 

At least you have a force leap.

 

And i red youre other posts where you claim Operatives/scoundrels are capable of stunlocking twice in a row which is impossible and shows how little you know about the actual class.

Go back to youre hole scrub.

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LOL? The most kitable class in this game are shadows/assassins. We have no gap closer like a maurader does. If we get kited, our options are to:

 

1) stand there and die while trying to catch up to our enemy. If he snares or slows us, it's gg.

 

2) hope our vanish is off CD.

 

That is simply not true. I have repeatedly advocated (all through my time in beta) for the Shadow/Assassin to have slight tweaks made to the class in this regard, to either help them maintain melee range a little more easily, or increase the range of their attacks so that maintaining that 10 meter sweet spot isn't necessary. So I am definitely not trying to say the Shadow is 100% fine as is.

 

However, this is not the most hard-up class in terms of gap closers. You have Force Speed and Force Stun to help gain that 10 meter sweet spot. Then from there you have Force Slow to gain and maintain melee range. Not to mention that some of your most powerful attacks are usable from 10 meters out.

 

The Scoundrel/Operative has nothing to use from 30 meters out to help them gain melee range on their opponents. Their only movement speed increase is in the form of a 20% tacked on to a defensive cooldown through talents, but then they deny themselves that defensive cooldown when they might need it later (and +20% movement is not a heck of a lot anyway.) They cannot talent their own 10 meter snare to be as good as the Shadow's/Assassin's, and their other stuns are melee range only.

 

Now, as I said, I have advocated in the past for the Shadow/Assassin to receive some improved anti-kiting aid, and still believe that they are not quite where they should be in that regard. But to say they are worse off than the Scoundrel/Operative? I disagree wholeheartedly, there.

 

-Macheath.

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