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From what I'm gathering, a Lethality speced Sniper is the only viable PvP option?


Darthsnake

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The problem is marksman is VERY immobile and easy to counter by simply (ab)using LOS. From what I saw (needs testing to confirm), your cast interrupts even if you lose LOS for just a moment while casting one of your abilities. Becomes annoying when people learn to use the pillars around flame traps in huttball for example.

 

I play a powertech BH as my main (got my sniper at 38 at the moment, rerolled from him to the bh at around 31 due to cover bugs and a few other reasons at that time) and snipers generally don't worry me in pvp. Yeah, they can be annoying and dish out a huge amount of damage, but so can any other class if they catch you unprepared. The difference is that compared to sorc or merc, they're much easier to deal with. Then again, most snipers I've met were marksman and I haven't met many lethality ones yet (never been focused by one or went against one 1v1).

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Im not complaining about Markmanship at the moment. With points in the other two for crit, cunning and alacrity. One skill im not a big fan of, even in pve, is the top tier series of shots buff. Three back to back series of shots isnt bad, especially with 30% more crit dmg, but I think id rather have a new skill altogether. I may dip into engineering and try something like this with a little more gear. 1.5 sec ambush with 20% armor pen and a low range knockback is a good utility.

 

If poisons and cull is better overall, then sure, go for it. I'm just stuck on marks and i like the play style. I actually feel sniper-ish. Maybe it's the steepest learning curve and combined with the lag issues and perfect timing to required to pull it off, it's not everyone's thing.

 

TL;DR? Im biased towards marksmanship because i want to feel like a sniper. The class I rolled and leveled for weeks. It hits hard and fast and works magic when used properly.

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i started pvping at L13, currently i'm a L41 sniper... i have all my points in MM so far except for the 3 pts for cunning % increase...

 

low levels i was usually top 3 in damages or kills in warzones... after the bracket patch, i still am... (my L30s vs L50's with experise i was getting rolled)...

 

in world pvp, i usually end up winning whomever i run into... not a 100% win rate mind you, but more often than not, i'm the one standing at the end...

 

can't tell you about L50 cuz i haven't been there yet...

Edited by wessik
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MM sniper and I pvp the same spec I pve in (33/5/3) and don't have issues with pvp. you have to know where to fight, when to fight, how to fight. trying to line up a full cast Ambush on a moving target in huttball = you are doing it wrong, use insta snipes/FT/grenades quick cast Ambushes and 3 stack SV SoS's (EP right after Amubshes and Snipes are good too but pricey in the energy department) and stay moving, staying in one spot for too long is bad for both your team and you, not to mention your dmg. take high ground and watch for ops (save escape for them, escape>dibilitate>cover pulse them off/into a fire).

 

I regularly do good/great dmg in Huttball for my gear (150-225k dmg, 8/16 champ gear with 3/5 set and non champ weapon (lvl 48 Voss Comendation rifle)). we are also one of the BEST classes for peeling off the ball carrier (FB, debilitate, legshot (which btw doesn't increase nor is affect by resolve) cover pulse). not to mention in Void and Civil War our Balistic Shield is great.

 

just keep your eye primarily on a) your position and b) your objective (door, turret terminal, ball).

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I've played all 3 specs in PvP and I feel all 3 are completely viable. You have to play to the specs' strengths and know the abilities. Play what you want but stick with the style you choose.

 

Lethality is great for getting big numbers quick, but I switched away from it when - during a Huttball game my team had locked down - I chased around a Sorceror, keeping my DOTs on them and Culling them, and I couldn't kill him. He could LOS, heal, and this went on for a full minute or two. You do have some burst but it's limited IMO. I also got really sick of warriors and BHs using their gap closers on me and not having as much access to Cover Pulse.

 

I switched back to MM and got similar numbers as I did as Lethality and felt like I had done more because the damage is single target burst instead of DOTs and AOE. Now I'm playing Engineer and it feels like a mix between the two.

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Lvl 50, 4/5 PVP Set equipped and Valor Rank 30, I also prefer marksman builds for pvp.

 

As other said above, when playing in a team, I prefer the burst of MM to Lethality. On any map, I like playing as a mobile turret, setting up camp and controlling the whole area, and escaping when somebody start to notice me.

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Lethality is no better than any other spec IMO.

 

I tried it out, its really not that much more mobile than any spec.. the only mobility aspect to it is a decent snare and slip away which is only a 2nd tier talent you can easily pick it up as marksman or engineer.

 

It's twice the ramp up time to deal any damage and you have to tunnel one opponent if you want to get full use of your damage being that you need THREE GCDs of work on an opponent to crank out any real damage. Lethality is waaaay too cooldown dependent for my taste.

 

ALSO and this is probably my biggest beef with lethality... energy efficiency is TERRIBLE. Lethality proponents wanna talk about how mobile they are but the only way to maintain a decent level of energy efficiency is to sit in cover and hope to crit. YES lethality has a lower CD on adrenaline probe but that's ANOTHER CD to have to depend on to be effective.

 

If you do great with lethality... more power to you, but there was nothing special about the spec that makes it shine ahead of the others in PvP. All the same sniper issues as every other spec... mobility is still a problem, being locked into cover is still a problem, and LOS is still our biggest bane.

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Rank 45 here full pvp gear mix of the 2. Extensively played all 3 trees as well as multiple hybrids and nothing comes close to lethal. Your extremely mobile and can offsenively use debilitate and shiv. Nothing really matches the aoe and single target dmg and burst. Most energy problems dissappear once you reach 50% ish dot crits. The ability to lock down multiple targets from doing objectives is great as well.

 

Anything is viable but once you start pvping people who have half a clue your gonna get frustrated at cover and the interupts. I top damage kills and kb 90% of the time with 7-9 medals 300-500k dmg if it goes the duration. Anyone that tells you lethal isn't the best is kidding themselves. Let them sit in cover I will dot them on the run interupt their ambush and shiv debil cull them. By the time that's done they are in 30% range.

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If they have half a clue, then they will start dispelling, rendering Lethality useless.

 

And I don't know what everybody else is doing, but playing marksman, I STILL use debilitate. Why shouldn't I, it's a great skill.

 

I tried out Lethality and MM, and while I prefer Lethality for solo PVP, I just burst far harder with MM. The only thing I really miss would be Corrosive Grenade and the slow it provides, but with anything else, I haven't noticed any difference in mobility... Even with MM, I still run around all the time.

Edited by neronskind
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Lethality is no better than any other spec IMO.

 

I tried it out, its really not that much more mobile than any spec.. the only mobility aspect to it is a decent snare and slip away which is only a 2nd tier talent you can easily pick it up as marksman or engineer.

 

It's twice the ramp up time to deal any damage and you have to tunnel one opponent if you want to get full use of your damage being that you need THREE GCDs of work on an opponent to crank out any real damage. Lethality is waaaay too cooldown dependent for my taste.

 

ALSO and this is probably my biggest beef with lethality... energy efficiency is TERRIBLE. Lethality proponents wanna talk about how mobile they are but the only way to maintain a decent level of energy efficiency is to sit in cover and hope to crit. YES lethality has a lower CD on adrenaline probe but that's ANOTHER CD to have to depend on to be effective.

 

If you do great with lethality... more power to you, but there was nothing special about the spec that makes it shine ahead of the others in PvP. All the same sniper issues as every other spec... mobility is still a problem, being locked into cover is still a problem, and LOS is still our biggest bane.

 

Actually doing damage to:

 

Troopers/Bounty Hunters

Guardians/Juggernauts

Tank-speced Assassins

 

is pretty awesome. Also, Lethality is a pita unless you can get your DoT crit rate above 50%. Once you do that, you will never touch Lethality for damage as a Marskman, and you will never be energy starved (crit rate determines energy regen with Lethality) This is coming from someone who wishes Marks was as viable, because i much prefer that playstyle...

 

but after about the thousandth time i crit a commando for 400 with Ambush, i went Lethality for PvP and have never looked back. It's even got better single-target burst than Marskman does. The only difference is instead of seeing "3200!" when you crit someone (and, conversely, "600!" when you crit a heavy-armor user with the same skill... ) is that Cull spews lots of little-middling numbers.

 

Total them all up sometime. with a 50% dot crit rate, its not uncommon for Cull to do more than 5-6k over its duration...

 

all of it completely unmitigated by armor.

 

Marksmans problems in PvP revolve entirely around the awful way that avoidance/mitigation work in this game in PvP. It's the only spec that relies on white, weapon damage for 80% of its damage.. which just happens to be the only kind of damage that is mitigated by EVERY SINGLE DEFENSIVE STAT IN THE GAME.

 

Trust me, i want them to fix it, because i much prefer my PvE/sniper playstyle to the run-and-gun of Lethality, but the first match after i switched, i went from 20-30 kills and 250-300k damage done on average for a long warzone match to 50 kills and 400-450k damage done.

 

in response to the bolded:

 

none of that is true. You only need to use cover when you want to become charge/pull immune. LoS is a MUCh smaller issue (only if it prevents you from getting Cull off on CD) to your damage - you can get your dots and weakening blast off and still be doing at least 50-60% of your damage regardless of what LoS they use.

 

And you actually have a BETTER use of Cover Pulse, since hte cooldown reducing talent is in.. Lethality.

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If they have half a clue, then they will start dispelling, rendering Lethality useless.

.

 

AFAIK, the dispels are on middling cooldowns, making it really hard for them to neuter you. All they can really do is force a target change; if you had already hit all three targets with your grenade, switch to one of the other targets, hit dart, WB, and Cull them.

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AFAIK, the dispels are on middling cooldowns, making it really hard for them to neuter you. All they can really do is force a target change; if you had already hit all three targets with your grenade, switch to one of the other targets, hit dart, WB, and Cull them.

 

They have a cooldown of 4,5 seconds and cleanse 2 dots at once. You need atleast 2 gcds to apply grenade+ dot, not to mention thats tons of ENG and grenade has a fairly long cooldown. Your dps will be already crippled hard if you have to recast the dart. Energy costs will eat you.

 

If you will play anyone with a brain or a "good" premade, that spec is worse than MM.

Edited by Jiav
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I've seen some people who've had great success with Marksman builds in PvP (not so much engineering though, but that doesn't mean they don't exist).

 

As for me? I feel inclined agree with what the OP is asking. I had a very difficult time in PvP as an Engi or MM Sniper in PvP, and that was for a lot of different reasons. Cover was extremely buggy and unreliable, left you susceptible and drew as much attention as carrying the huttball does, and like someone else said, it was far too easy for other players to simply abuse los, especially in Huttball.

 

These problems are severely diminished when playing as a pure lethality spec. Add unto this an increased overall damage and some great Objective-Orientated abilities (Corrosive Grenade is incredible for preventing turret caps/bomb armings), and you can understand why I infinitely prefer Lethality for PvP.

 

I won't say it's the only viable option in PvP, because obviously there are plenty of people who make Engi and/or MM work, but if you're having difficulty in PvP, it's definitely a spec to consider.

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I've tried both builds in PVP but from my perspective MM is the better of the two its much more suited to my play style, lethality takes too long to setup unlike mm during you chucking your two dots on maybe getting a weakening blast off and starting to channel cull the enemy has either stunned you or losd you :(sad face.

 

Where as Mm pick you targets right (no tanks) you can do some great burst!

 

O and 5k single hit medal ;)

Edited by Saben-
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Anyone that tells you lethal isn't the best is kidding themselves. Let them sit in cover I will dot them on the run interupt their ambush and shiv debil cull them. By the time that's done they are in 30% range.

 

So you interrupt a 1.5 sec cast time. Grats, I still have a handful of instant cast. Ambush is best at nuking high armor targets, so unless im aiming at a tank, it's not a major loss. So far I've yet to see a solid argument. It's mostly statements like yours.

 

All I've taken from these forums is that lethality is the easiest, engineering is the worst, marksmanship requires skill.

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There's lots of reasons why it's worse but whatever works for you. I didn't even mention all the mitigation MM has to deal with hitting mercs bhs tanks like a wet noodle. If you don't want the most mobile spec with high burst and aoe dps without having to be dependant on this games crappy cover system then by all means keep playing MM.
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So you interrupt a 1.5 sec cast time. Grats, I still have a handful of instant cast. Ambush is best at nuking high armor targets, so unless im aiming at a tank, it's not a major loss. So far I've yet to see a solid argument. It's mostly statements like yours.

 

All I've taken from these forums is that lethality is the easiest, engineering is the worst, marksmanship requires skill.

 

No amount of skill will help your Ambush avoid all armor

 

no amount of skill will help your Ambush avoid being Deflected

 

no amount of skill will prevent all your damage from being mitigated by every defense in the game.

 

None of the above applies to lethality.

 

I love the MM spec, and it's my PvE spec of choice, but for PvP - mobility issues completely aside - the nature of mitigation in this game means its not good. It's math, pure and simple.

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Let them sit in cover I will dot them on the run interupt their ambush and shiv debil cull them. By the time that's done they are in 30% range.

 

It's all good, but marksman has no casts that can be interupted, because they all require you to be in cover, which grants interruption immunity and if the sniper is any good, by the time you get to him, he'll have popped entrench (why else would another sniper run into melee range if not to stun, which is probably the only ability worth anything and is melee range.)

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I've always been MM and it seems fine to me. almost full champ, 500+ expertise, I can explode people. Burst is amazing in PvP. The whole armor thing really isnt that big of a deal because you shouldnt be targeting tanks anyway.

 

I've never tried lethality, although Ive been tempted to do so. What classes can dispel the dots? The sorc ability says it dispels mental or force effects, that doesnt seem like it should work on our poisons.

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Valor Rank 53

Spec: 21 / 18 / 2

Approx: 1720 Cunning / 37% Crit / 82% Surge

 

I am top damage in battlegrounds 90% of the time - often hitting 300k within the first 7 minutes of even Huttball.

 

The goal of this build is to have a bit more damage type diversity with interrogation probe, a buffed up (and ridiculously energy efficient) explosive probe and an extremely nasty orbital strike.

 

With the 2pc bonus, orbital strike becomes your 1-stop-shop for handling durable melee characters and area-denying teams. If someone wants to get fresh, drop it on yourself while entrenched, interrogation probe, explosive probe then start laying in with your standard shots.

 

For sorcs, while on the run I hit them with our armor debuff -- hits for crap so they don't realize you're on them.. then open with an ambush -> explosive probe -> instant snipe -> followthrough combo. If it's a good sorc you won't kill them with that, but you'll certainly make a dent.

 

I hate channeled spells. Hate hate hate. Pvp and channeling don't mix as far as I'm concerned.

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I'm having no problems as MM in Huttball and Civil War, Voidstar is a bit more unfriendly towards snipers when defending though. As long as you position yourself well and re-position alot you'll have no problem, and I guess that's the biggest challenge as a MM sniper because I constantly see other snipers/gunslingers caught out of position and then they're a free kill.

Burst is great, survivability is decent, I usually top the damage meter in my games (not that it matters) so I definately don't feel useless in Warzones.

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Valor Rank 53

Spec: 21 / 18 / 2

Approx: 1720 Cunning / 37% Crit / 82% Surge

 

I am top damage in battlegrounds 90% of the time - often hitting 300k within the first 7 minutes of even Huttball.

 

The goal of this build is to have a bit more damage type diversity with interrogation probe, a buffed up (and ridiculously energy efficient) explosive probe and an extremely nasty orbital strike.

 

With the 2pc bonus, orbital strike becomes your 1-stop-shop for handling durable melee characters and area-denying teams. If someone wants to get fresh, drop it on yourself while entrenched, interrogation probe, explosive probe then start laying in with your standard shots.

 

For sorcs, while on the run I hit them with our armor debuff -- hits for crap so they don't realize you're on them.. then open with an ambush -> explosive probe -> instant snipe -> followthrough combo. If it's a good sorc you won't kill them with that, but you'll certainly make a dent.

 

I hate channeled spells. Hate hate hate. Pvp and channeling don't mix as far as I'm concerned.

 

Top damage , kills ..... so what. How manytimes are you able to score or stop the ball carrier in Huttball because thats what matters damage and kills aren't a factor. Damage and kills doesn't define your PVP ability.

 

Lethal was great till level 50 then players debuffed more, Marks was great for damage but made you vunderable in so many other was in PVP you don't survive aslong. Engineering for over all PVP world and warzones is my choice untill they've revamp some skills. I do decent damage when need to, I survive fights more as eng. But snipers more about the skill of the player, some players like PVP easymode. Snipers take some improvising to play.

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Lethality is no better than any other spec IMO.

 

I tried it out, its really not that much more mobile than any spec.. the only mobility aspect to it is a decent snare and slip away which is only a 2nd tier talent you can easily pick it up as marksman or engineer.

 

It's twice the ramp up time to deal any damage and you have to tunnel one opponent if you want to get full use of your damage being that you need THREE GCDs of work on an opponent to crank out any real damage. Lethality is waaaay too cooldown dependent for my taste.

 

ALSO and this is probably my biggest beef with lethality... energy efficiency is TERRIBLE. Lethality proponents wanna talk about how mobile they are but the only way to maintain a decent level of energy efficiency is to sit in cover and hope to crit. YES lethality has a lower CD on adrenaline probe but that's ANOTHER CD to have to depend on to be effective.

 

If you do great with lethality... more power to you, but there was nothing special about the spec that makes it shine ahead of the others in PvP. All the same sniper issues as every other spec... mobility is still a problem, being locked into cover is still a problem, and LOS is still our biggest bane.

 

You totally ignore lethalities strengths:

 

1. When you are rooted and can't go into cover you are f* as a marksman - you aren't as lethality. The same goes for bugs and you have access to your best moves while running

 

2. Most of lethalities damage is internal damage and ignores heavy armour completely and most defenses as well. Try to kill a tank as a marksman or any other guy wearing heavy armour. Also, the infamous "deflect, deflect, deflect, blocked" series is not existend as lethality - also because of the damage type

 

3. The ramp up time is not only a drawback. Most people activate shields too late...and then the dots are already on them, ignoring the shield.

 

Sure, one dispel and the party is over, though. However, I prefer that at the moment over the crappy marksman damage when it comes to facing people with heavy armour

 

 

However, I think we are also argumenting about taste ;)

Edited by Desgarden
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