Operative Nerf is too much

[Swaggz]

Ollo! Do you know how many stuns Operatives have?

 

1- Jarring Strike: Applied by Hidden Strike, melee range (4m), "hard" stun, 1.5s duration, used only once from stealth.

 

2- Debilitate: Melee range (4m), "hard" stun, 4s duration, 45s CD (or 30s Cd with 2/2 in Slip Away, but those 2 points are often better spent in Incisive Action, especially considering how restrictive Tactical Advantage mechanics are).

 

3- Flash Bang: Medium range (10m), AOE blind affects up to 5 targets for 8s, breaks on dmg, 1 min CD.

 

- Sleep Dart: Range: 10 m, almost unusable in PVP, and gives full resolve bar. So, it does not really count. Why?

 

Sleep Dart: Puts the target to sleep for 60 seconds. Damage will break the effect prematurely. Only usable from stealth and only usable on targets not in combat. Only one target can be incapacitated at a time. Does not affect droids.

 

 

Those are all the stuns that we have. Now list me what other classes have and you will see the difference.

 

SO, since your sleep dart and my concussion missile are just about the same, that means I have 1 stun to your 3....?

[Sprigum]

SO, since your sleep dart and my concussion missile are just about the same, that means I have 1 stun to your 3....?

 

Sleep dart isn't a stun and nobody is going to be using it in a PvP environment unless they're attempting a 2v1.

 

Debilitate is our only stun.

 

Jarring Strike is a 1.5 second stun in ONE spec at the very top of the tree.

 

Flashbang isn't a stun and causes lots of resolve as well.

 

Basically we can HS->Vanish->HS->Debilitate for ~7 seconds worth of stun once every 2 minutes. This is usually completely negated by an intelligent player using their CC break during debilitate, which means we're getting stunned or knocked back. Even if our CC break is down and we've gotten good crits on HS, they're above 50% and we're probably completely boned.

 

The problem I constantly see is that people just let operatives back into melee range. I literally laugh at my screen when they just let me waltz right back up to them. The good players won't allow this to happen and I sure as hell don't.

 

All this said I don't like the design:

 

- If their CC breaker is down I'll probably win.

 

- If its not I probably won't.

 

Obviously against PuG WZ players this isn't always true as they make some *really* bad decisions. Against good players this is mostly true.

[Manigma]

I think our class would be much better if we had more abilities that let us stealth out of combat, or at least put vanish on a much lower cooldown.

[RogueSatyr]

I love how the OP's get the nerf stick and BH's/Troopers and Couns/Sorc's are untouched....time to level a BH and spam missiles....

 

lol o lol missles are so counterable... and it burns them so hard when you do...

[Treplos]

SO, since your sleep dart and my concussion missile are just about the same, that means I have 1 stun to your 3....?

 

Did you miss the part that Sleep Dart can only be used on targets that are out of combat?

 

PS: Nvm, in fact, you purposefully ignored my whole post.

 

Edit: You are a Merc, so don't even bother. I can't even dent your class anymore.

 

- You have heavy armor.

- A ranged 4s hard stun (Electro Dart).

- A ranged soft stun (Conc Missile) that you can use in combat.

- A knockback with a 60% slow (Jet Boost).

- Another talented, albeit smaller knockback (with Rocket Punch).

- A small talented slow (with Unload).

- 2 shields (Energy Shield and talented Power Barrier), each of those is x10 better than both my defensive abilities.

 

- You can even reduce the CD of your CC-breaker (Determination) by 30s.

 

Did I miss anything?

Edited February 5, 2012 by Treplos

[Treplos]

Basically we can HS->Vanish->HS->Debilitate for ~7 seconds worth of stun once every 2 minutes.

 

How much Resolve does HS generate?

[Manigma]

How much Resolve does HS generate?

No idea bro, but you can do it twice without filling resolve hence the debilitate on the end. It's a nice trick but a kill every 2 mins isn't that great, without the second hidden strike our chances are quite a bit lower, not to mention we need vanish quite often for defensive reasons.

[NintendoJesus]

The Nerf is simply too much.

 

 

No it isn't.

[Beelzebubs]

I present a picture of a guy from our server forums playing Scoundrel.

 

http://i.imgur.com/vFjc4.jpg

[tharnvedra]

Nice lethality screenshot of pointless AOE damage. Back to topic.

 

Please buff at least the utility of operatives and sustained damage of the concealment tree.

[Lord_Karsk]

So funny how a few whine on the forum they are not super op anymore.

Players who have no skills complain they can no longer kill people in 2 seconds.

The class is still a little op and this only proves how bad these players are.

 

To quote some of the trolls on the forum: L2P.

[Keldaur]

Nice lethality screenshot of pointless AOE damage. Back to topic.

 

Please buff at least the utility of operatives and sustained damage of the concealment tree.

 

Can't you see he got flechette round ?

 

Whoah i know, your world just imploded.

[Treplos]

So funny how a few whine on the forum they are not super op anymore.

Players who have no skills complain they can no longer kill people in 2 seconds.

The class is still a little op and this only proves how bad these players are.

 

To quote some of the trolls on the forum: L2P.

 

 

Your exaggerations only proves you know nothing.

[NintendoJesus]

Nice lethality screenshot of pointless AOE damage. Back to topic.

 

Please buff at least the utility of operatives and sustained damage of the concealment tree.

 

900k damage is never pointless. Ever.

[Darth_Sookie]

You seem to be under the impression that those 3-4k crits you do now are low damage. I got news for you kid, that's what the rest of us have been doing all the time. You are now brought in line.

[Treplos]

You seem to be under the impression that those 3-4k crits you do now are low damage. I got news for you kid, that's what the rest of us have been doing all the time. You are now brought in line.

 

Hello kid.

 

There is nothing called "THOSE" 3-4k crits. There is just ONE 3-4k crit from the opener, which hits for 1.2k normal. That same opener can now CRIT for 1.2k on Mercs.

 

All other hits are 800 non-crit to about 2.5k crit (maybe 3k with buffs).

 

 

So, by your own confession, you do 3-4k crits all the time.

[Treplos]

I present a picture of a guy from our server forums playing Scoundrel.

 

http://i.imgur.com/vFjc4.jpg

 

 

I have to say that damage is impressive. The best damage I've seen from any Operative before does not even reach 400k. Not post 1.1 anyway.

 

Sadly, whatever is in the pic does not reflect anything I've experienced or seen in any of the Warzones before. I don't even know how that is remotely possible after 1.1.

 

It seems no one was attacking that guy, and he had a pocket healer(s); he probably was in a premade. The other team maybe were getting rolfstomped. Also, why so many players on that map!!

 

It could be any number of reasons that the pic did not show. If you leave any DPS uncheked, that DPS will be doing some nasty damage.

 

Either way, how old is this pic? Anything to show that it was post 1.1, or even post 1.1.1? And do you have other, more recent pics of such a performance?

[Keldaur]

Hello kid.

 

There is nothing called "THOSE" 3-4k crits. There is just ONE 3-4k crit from the opener, which hits for 1.2k normal. That same opener can now CRIT for 1.2k on Mercs.

 

All other hits are 800 non-crit to about 2.5k crit (maybe 3k with buffs).

 

 

So, by your own confession, you do 3-4k crits all the time.

 

So you got 250% crit damage huh ?

 

Random numbers are random.

 

Btw i know several scoundrels who can go for the 500k. But hey

Edited February 5, 2012 by Keldaur

[astrolite]

I have to say that damage is impressive. The best damage I've seen from any Operative before does not even reach 400k. Not post 1.1 anyway.

 

Voidstar, which is 2 rounds. He also has a healer, it seems. I clear 300k pretty easily against a group of ungeared folks (looks like people bailed on that wz when it appeared to be a loss), so having a pocket healer I could only see that # go up a considerable amount. A marauder/sent would be wayyyyy better at topping damage with a healer though, since we would run in to energy issues.

[BoDiE]

When are op's getting a further nerf? We know it's coming.

[Treplos]

So you got 250% crit damage huh ?

 

Random numbers are random.

 

Btw i know several scoundrels who can go for the 500k. But hey

 

 

What random numbers, Mr random person?

 

Damage is random as there is a damage range, crit, modifiers from talents, buffs on you/buffs on the target and different armor mitigation. But ofc you know all that, right?

 

I know Santa Claus. Does that make you special?

Edited February 5, 2012 by Treplos

[Treplos]

Voidstar, which is 2 rounds. He also has a healer, it seems. I clear 300k pretty easily against a group of ungeared folks (looks like people bailed on that wz when it appeared to be a loss), so having a pocket healer I could only see that # go up a considerable amount. A marauder/sent would be wayyyyy better at topping damage with a healer though, since we would run in to energy issues.

 

Yeah I know, but the image could easily be an older one. Who knows.

 

 

 

When are op's getting a further nerf? We know it's coming.

 

Right after your class gets nerfed.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Treplos

[kckkryptonite]

You're bad, I'm facerolling on my Operative; Hidden Strike does not fill Resolve bar so you can chain it with Debilitate making the total stun time longer than before.

[Conchobar]

That will teach you to roll something other than a Sorc/Sage.

 

lol so true.

[Zlashie]

I fully agree with OP (Im a Scoundrel. Just one of the classes I play)

 

Im considering leveling a Shadow now. Not only do they have better damage then us, but they also have twice the utility.

 

Infact why nerf this class so hard when the Inquisitor class is a much bigger problem?

 

When I play my sage the game feels ridiculously easier to play. And the Inquisitor has even more stuns than the sage.

 

 

You reduced Operative/Scoundrel Damage to the point were I feel like im smacking people with a towel

 

We dont have the utility to survive. Infact the idea of the scoundrel on a battlefield is to pick off a target and thats that. We are not a Juggernaut/Guardian or a Vanguard who can stay in the middle of the fight and kill. The point of our class is to remove a healer to change the course of a battlefield. If you remove this ability from us we become a useless asset to the class list.

 

Also you are nerfing the scoundrel based on wrong numbers. You are nerfing them based on those few people who are screwing around with the way you made SWTOR and stacking stats. For the Normal everyday scoundrel/operative, damage wasnt a problem AT ALL. Infact it was pretty fine. We could nuke down squishy targets and had huge problems with tanks and classes that can survive (not to mention people who can outsmart our opener).

 

If you want to nerf this class, dont nerf their damage, nerf their crit multiplier. Seems like an obvious thing to do because a scoundrels NONCRITS were FINE before you nerfed it. its the fact that Operatives and Scoundrels JUST STACK SURGE that made it a huge problem.

 

I suggest if you want to nerf this class, nerf the 30% crit multiplier which is a passive for our Backblast and Shoot First abilities (those that people are actually complaining about)