big_aug Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The Nerf is simply too much. I wouldn't have much of a problem with any one of the nerfs on their own, but combined, it's completely over doing it. I am in almost full champion with a few pieces of centurion and one missing piece of PvP gear. I have ~565 expertise. The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS! That doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I hit for about 1K with Hidden Strike. On a geared tank, I've seen as low as 927 follwed by 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.3k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. This is with Acid Blade. Now, a straight 20% reduction in damage on Hidden Strike is a pretty damn large amount. Combined with the Acid Blade reduction, I'm scared to see what I'd hit for without crits. Add in the fact that we will only get a 1.5 second knockdown, and it's just wow... The class might end up being completely useless in PvP. We don't have ANY of the utility that a lot of other classes get. They nerfed the only thing we had, opening burst, and they nerfed it significantly. I haven't even mentioned PvE. I haven't done it much, so I don't know if it will make much difference there. Probably not being that fights are longer and you don't use your opener much. Anyways, I think it was a huge mistake to ner so much all at one time. I cancelled my subscription. It wasn't even "rage quitting." It was more like, "If it's only been one month and they are making huge nerfs, I can't imagine what else is in store." I don't feel like rolling another class if Operatives do indeed become useless. I kind of just needed a reason to quit to push me over that edge and this was it. And I called it a little while ago. I said they'd to Operatives exactly what they did in DAoC with Critblades - completely ruin them. The story was good though, I'll give them that. Thank god I caught my subscription before it renews today. EDIT: If Hidden Strike still completely fills the resolve bar, then the Jarring Strike talent becomes completely useless. There would be NO reason to ever take it. Instead, you could open with Hidden Strike and you'd probably get at least one more attack in before the person reacted. You could then stun them Debilitae and follow up with flash bang later. They need to fix that if it's the case. Edited January 21, 2012 by big_aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordoftheStars Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 TL; DR L2P *brought to you by generalised generalizations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estebonez Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The WoW clone is complete kneejerk % buffs in the wrong places with 0 compensation for the parts of the class that are lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrdstar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Welcome to a leveled playing field have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorluCa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The tears of Infathomable sadness. So delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 wall...do not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valcutio Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That will teach you to roll something other than a Sorc/Sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Do you know what I hate reading in mmorpg forums: There are no best classes, nor best chars; only good, average and bad players behind their characters. Just rolling the class does not make you op/bad. This is always not true, there was none mmorpg out there which I played where actually not a class had advantages over others for a certain time. Its a standard answer to not to tell the truth or to proof to have no knowledge Alright, I think devs will watch the performance of the op/sc and adjust if the class would suffer from the 1.1.1 changes. Dont worry too much, there will be a lot more changes in the future for several classes....thats how mmorpgs work. Edited January 21, 2012 by BobaFurz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_aug Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Do you know what I hate reading in mmorpg forums: This is always not true, there was none mmorpg out there which I played where actually not a class had advantages over others for a certain time. Its a standard answer to not to tell the truth or to proof to have no knowledge Alright, I think devs will watch the performance of the op/sc and adjust if the class would suffer from the 1.1.1 changes. Dont worry too much, there will be a lot more changes in the future for several classes....thats how mmorpgs work. I know, and that's why I cancelled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Well, tbh that's the only Thing Operratives/Scoundrels have. They need to get the first hit. Yes, they are OP in 1v1 and yes, they can kill you or drop you to 30% in a Stun. But like i said, that's the only thing they have. They really are amazing against unorganisted people :/ If you react and keep eyes open there they can't do anything. A Stun, a Rescue on the attacked Teammember or Guard completely destroys them. Now Bioware needs to buff them to be able to compete with Guardian/Sentinel. They need a Gap Closer, asap. EDIT: No, i'm a Sage. I got killed plenty of time by an Operative. But not in my Premade. Guard, Rescue, some Heals and the Operatives are just useless. You can kite them to death, like really, they are so kiteable :S Also the funny thing is that they didn't nerf Juggernaut/Guardian. 7k AE Burst isn't op? Like what the hell. Edited January 21, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafryd Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Lol, the most you do is 5.6k? Poor guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_aug Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Lol, the most you do is 5.6k? Poor guy! I'm sorry, but I'm in almost full Tier 2 PvP gear stacking multiple buffs. I EXPECT to be hitting pretty damn hard as a burst DPS class. It's especially true since I'm taking shots for between 3-4K back to back to back from RANGE and there is no set up AT ALL for it, and I've got pretty damn good gear to boot. I'm not going to further attempt to try and convince anyone of anything. I actually just quit immediately after I saw it. I just needed to get my forum on one last time before I'm officially done Edited January 21, 2012 by big_aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchlessGlory Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 20% is a good nerf. Glad to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Grammar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry, but I'm in almost full Tier 2 PvP gear stacking multiple buffs. I EXPECT to be hitting pretty damn hard as a burst DPS class. It's especially true since I'm taking shots for between 3-4K back to back to back from RANGE and there is no set up AT ALL for it, and I've got pretty damn good gear to boot. I'm not going to further attempt to try and convince anyone of anything. I actually just quit immediately after I saw it. I just needed to get my forum on one last time before I'm officially done Sure, you 3-4 shot people, but that's totally in line compared to other classes. I know this because I'm ranged dps too. Like this one time I chain shocked this one dude for almost 1k damage! Insane huge burst! OP needed brought in line, because you can't kill everyone before they can barely react anymore is a problem with you, not the class. Edited January 21, 2012 by Poor_Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskynn Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 they need nerf. you say this because you're a scoundrel or operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarpped Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm sorry, but I'm in almost full Tier 2 PvP gear stacking multiple buffs. I EXPECT to be hitting pretty damn hard as a burst DPS class. It's especially true since I'm taking shots for between 3-4K back to back to back from RANGE and there is no set up AT ALL for it, and I've got pretty damn good gear to boot. I'm not going to further attempt to try and convince anyone of anything. I actually just quit immediately after I saw it. I just needed to get my forum on one last time before I'm officially done So you should crit for a third of a players HP pool while DOTs are ticking and they're CC'd? Not to mention you have stealth, heals, aoe vanish, an 8 second aoe disorient, defensive dispels, stuns, and snares. Shoot First will now crit for 4.4k and you'll only get one global instead of two of them being in a CC. You offer a lot more than burst, but I get it... it's easier to tunnel away and get easy kills. When they take that away you unsub. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakozoid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm sorry, but I'm in almost full Tier 2 PvP gear stacking multiple buffs. I EXPECT to be hitting pretty damn hard as a burst DPS class.So what?! I'm merc. DPS class too. Full champ set. And I never expect to hit even on 4K. Why you should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 To take this away from them, but give them no other utility in return is completely idiotic. Their class has nothing else, no gap closers, or anything else to keep them viable. The damage isn't even that amazing, once us Commando/Mercenary's starts getting geared we pull similar damage to them if we chain crit, at 30m. Yes killing people in a stun-lock is a bad, bad class design, but the fact that they built them that way, with no other role (in this particular spec) and are now taking that away, giving nothing to make up for it pretty much makes them the most worthless spec in the game. There was already almost no reason to use a scoundrel/operative over an assassin anyway, vs any semi decent team their opener was was completely counterable. Hopefully bioware have more changes coming for your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So what?! I'm merc. DPS class too. Full champ set. And I never expect to hit even on 4K. Why you should? I'm a Gunnery commando (your worse in every way mirror thanks to bioware) I've done buff stacked Demo round crits for over 6k, my grav round routinely crit for 3k, in PvP, without any buffs every 1.5 seconds. I think you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor_Grammar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) So what?! I'm merc. DPS class too. Full champ set. And I never expect to hit even on 4K. Why you should? Didn't you read? He says he stacked buffs, so it's ok he does thousands damage more then other classes except for the dude with the grav rounds, and we all know how balanced that **** is. Gosh. It's cool guys, most of the time he'll only take a 1/3 of your life per hit instead of half. Edited January 21, 2012 by Poor_Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaulTheConquerer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Don't do it Bioware. Take off some damage from hidden strike and some armor pen. from acid blade? Fine. but a 1.5 sec knockdown really isnt a knockdown. that's barely long enough to see they were knocked down. The delay between pressing a key and the response in game is near 1 sec. Edited January 21, 2012 by RaulTheConquerer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenolf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 /lol My only hope is that the nerf is over the top, so all the crazy valor/gear gains attained through the broken class become meaningless. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 i could handle the damage adjustment if it brought with it some versatility with cc as it relates to gap closing so theres a greater possibility of closing the gap. As it stands right now you're on a 10m range cap for any cc which allows you to close the gap, and frankly its it doesn't equate to the some odd 30 meters. you have a root/slow and a stun. It's not that its impossible its just relative to other classes you're cc as an operative is a one trick pony. Its primary focus is to not let you escape, there's little in the way of getting back to you once your gone unless your vanish is on cc or you stop short of 10m. A smart player will cc you and run outside of 10m unless they're melee. another issue is the ability to have hidden strike knock down your target. It's a catch 22, was before the patch. In that we're built to do damage to people before they get away, so it is appealing in speccing into it to have ability to cc and continue to keep them in melee range. At the same time it completely fills their resolve bar, so if you don't do considerable damage in that time they'll get away. Now i dont disagree that its not sporting to kill anyone that fast, the problem is the class/spec is sort of built that way, and part wasn't adjusted to reflect changes. you could spec for a melee stun to provide a run speed increase but you're blowing an ability that intrinsically is supposed to provide a stun on an opponent thats not stunable just to keep up with them. something as simple as either reducing the cc time provided by the knockdown of hidden strike so there is some option for more then one cc (and putting points elsewhere in the tree is rather fruiteless for pvp but you do need ot get that high in their for acid blade). Additionally it also makes a rather necessary part of speccing into lethal strike mute. In order for it to replace the tactical advantage it consumes when used on poisoned targets you have to spec for it to have a chance to stun. Problem is for the majority of the time you're fighting someone its proccing doesn't produce any affect due to the resolve increase from hidden strike. There are a number of dps classes who heal that have both knockbacks and pulls, not saying its necessarily a matter of giving operatives both, but something should be considered. side note cc breakdown: knockdown from stealth, slow, stun, stun, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakozoid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm a Gunnery commando (your worse in every way mirror thanks to bioware) I've done buff stacked Demo round crits for over 6k, my grav round routinely crit for 3k, in PvP, without any buffs every 1.5 seconds. I think you're doing it wrong.Then you are not so gimped as you think. Coz maximum crit i've ever had as Merc was 3.9K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Don't do it Bioware. Take off some damage from hidden strike and some armor pen. from acid blade? Fine. but a 1.5 sec knockdown really isnt a knockdown. that's barely long enough to see they were knocked down. The delay between pressing a key and the response in game is near 1 sec. Shadows get a 2 second knockdown with 5 times less damage on that ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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