Stuggottzz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I dont think there is anything that need's to be changed personally, Ive played both PvE and PvP with my sniper and i havnt found one thing i would change, but thats just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayestes Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 As I gear up my Sorcerer, I've come to notice one major problem with the Sniper that I alluded to once but never fully realized was an issue. I have absolutely unlimited Force with the build I've been using... and thus can always attack at full power. As a Marksman or Engineer you run out of steam after three kills and as Lethality you run out after about two (without a multi-dot). This also assumes you are dumping energy, which you wouldn't anyway. It's more reasonable to assume you'd stay up in the high energy and only kill one or two opponents. That is thrown through a loop when you factor in healing. In our Premade vs. Premade games, I find that unless I surprise the healer and take him down with some adrenals I am forced to conserve energy far before I'd even secured a single kill. Now I'll give the Sniper the advantage of higher damage when they are blowing their energy. A well setup Cull or Reactive Shot Ambush crit can just absolutely murder opponents. The problem is going energy conservative or much, much worse, running out of energy causes them to do drastically less damage. It's incredibly easy for a healer to just stand there and take your damage when you have to cycle in Rifle Shots without having to blow defensive cooldowns such as Energy Shield, Cloaking Screen, or Force Speed in fear of dying. Are there ways to mitigate this issue? Sure is, teammates. Snipers are the best supporters of other Ranged DPS in the game due to their wealth of defensive options. However, I've come to strongly oppose how punishing the energy mechanic is after realizing that my Sorc can do much more sustained damage then my Sniper simply due to the resource mechanics. The only difference the Sniper burst is more reliable and cooldown based rather then the Sorc burst being proc-based. I do think this is a problem and should be addressed. It's probably the number one reason Snipers are so bipolar on these forums. Either you get the energy mechanic and do well (but will still fall prey to the situation I listed above), or you suck at it and think the Sniper is a terrible class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestyOwn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes i find it retarted that sniper is pretty much the only class that has to manage their energy to get decent DPS. The only other close class would be MERC, but MERC bonus sets vent heat in tracer missiles crits.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_Hoc Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 make enter natural cover and enter artificial cover (that red shield thing) as diffirent abilities. Make cover useble when rooted. increase range of our 35m ranged abilities to 40m, 30m abilities to 35m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I do agree that energy can become a problem rather quickly – I might add that I am engineer spec and have every point in lowering energy costs and regaining energy from explosive probe After my initial burst, it becomes very energy inefficient as opposed to the healer just sitting there spamming his heals. I had a perfect example of it last night. I singled out a commando healer and immediately bursted him into panic mode, he shielded and healed to full health (I didn’t bother trying to kill him at this point, with his reduced damage taken, increased/uninterruptable healing. After the shield he just kept heal tanking and CC’ing. I landed every interrupt and CC’d him back, and was slowly winning the fight until I ran out of energy (2 adrenaline probes later). Him spamming heals over and over was much more energy efficient than me trying to out pace that healing with snipe. When It was clear my energy would be depleted I knee capped him and left. I really do think their should be more healing debuffs in this game = The only one I am aware of is only available to the marauder/sentinel. I’m still mainly interested in cover fixes, but energy use might be worth looking at. And the possibility of a healing debuff Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes i find it retarted that sniper is pretty much the only class that has to manage their energy to get decent DPS. The only other close class would be MERC, but MERC bonus sets vent heat in tracer missiles crits.............. ...And have more mobility, heavy armour and can also heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbig Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Interesting, I haven't really thought about problems with the Sniper in terms of the energy mechanic as a whole. Does this mean you are in favor of scrapping the energy system? Having a higher energy pool and/or reducing energy cost of abilities? Reducing force pools of other classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Interesting, I haven't really thought about problems with the Sniper in terms of the energy mechanic as a whole. Does this mean you are in favor of scrapping the energy system? Having a higher energy pool and/or reducing energy cost of abilities? Reducing force pools of other classes? Personaly, lowering the cost on snipe, or at least making it specable would give us some room to breath. Tracer missile and power shot can be specd to cost "Significantly" less heat for mercs Another idea could be increased regen in cover, or refund __ energy on use of ability whilst in cover. If I can keep snipe up in my downtime I would be happy. Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggietheThird Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't think we really need to lower the energy (or force er whatever...) of other classes, maybe increase the snipers a bit..? I do fine in pvp and pve, the only issues i run into are strictly healing speced sorcerers who are able to continue healing themselves until I am out of energy, even when I use distractions and stuns, but they are supposed to be able to do that if focusing on themsleves I think and I believe they had Battlemaster gear (as i don't face this problem all that often) so they outgear me. Really I think what the whole community needs to realize is that this is an MMORPG, as in ROLE PLAYING GAME, each character shouldn't be able to do everything, so I think people need to stop calling for more mobility, range, and heals for the sniper, we would be OP if any of those changes were put into affect. The community as a whole needs to stop comparing ourselves to the all powerful madness build for the sorc, they are OP and are getting nerfed to bring them down to our level, so it's no big deal. This is a new game (and Biowares first MMO i believe) so cut them some slack, besides most sorc's are so used to their 4 button combo that when you interrupt them, and leg shot when they run, they go down easy. And again Bean soup, i thought you quit this game like 2 weeks ago man...stop trolling the forums, we get you don't like the sniper so just leave us all alone and go back to WoW....please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I don't think we really need to lower the energy (or force er whatever...) of other classes, maybe increase the snipers a bit..? I do fine in pvp and pve, the only issues i run into are strictly healing speced sorcerers who are able to continue healing themselves until I am out of energy, even when I use distractions and stuns, but they are supposed to be able to do that if focusing on themsleves I think and I believe they had Battlemaster gear (as i don't face this problem all that often) so they outgear me. Really I think what the whole community needs to realize is that this is an MMORPG, as in ROLE PLAYING GAME, each character shouldn't be able to do everything, so I think people need to stop calling for more mobility, range, and heals for the sniper, we would be OP if any of those changes were put into affect. The community as a whole needs to stop comparing ourselves to the all powerful madness build for the sorc, they are OP and are getting nerfed to bring them down to our level, so it's no big deal. This is a new game (and Biowares first MMO i believe) so cut them some slack, besides most sorc's are so used to their 4 button combo that when you interrupt them, and leg shot when they run, they go down easy. And again Bean soup, i thought you quit this game like 2 weeks ago man...stop trolling the forums, we get you don't like the sniper so just leave us all alone and go back to WoW....please? Intersting that you say a each class shouldnt be able to do everything. The sniper ISNT mobile and IS kitable/line of sightable (the least mobile class infact) the sniper ISNT tanky (apart from blowing entrech, shield and shield probe) The sniper ISNT a tank killer (most of their attacks are affected by Armor, shields and dodge) The sniper CANT heal himself or others The sniper CANT guard others or have utilities like Pull teammates. This is all fine, but the sniper SHOULD excel at killing priority targets like hearers and Dpsers. For the most part he does. But a healer out heal tanking him shouldnt be on the cards. Meybe for a while, but the healer should be out of energy before the sniper. If the healer can heal tank alone against the PURE dps classes, that seems like an issue. I will admit this doesnt happen often, and is generally the heavy armor healers. I really dont think too much of what people are bringing forward is unreasonable. Most are interested in cover and energy fixes with perhaps one damage type change. Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) What i would change... Longer range for our rifles, 40m at least. MErke ambush and snipe into one skill. When triggering combat with snioe, it gives the ambush damage. Otherwise snipe damage+10%. Cover provides us with invisibility/stealth until we chose to attack. And we get a mobility skill so that we can actually move and not laisure suit larry all over the place. We get to buy the shown outfit from the progression video, fully moddable. That'd be super sweet. I'd be even willing to switch to light armour if that would be implemented, it would add so much more Sniperish feel to the overall gameplay regarding the class. Which is Sniper. No flashing billboards as a cover please! Edited February 8, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggietheThird Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I do like that outfit...lol I've thought about the range addition, but I think that would need some play testing before hand, cause I for one love ganking reps on the shared worlds, cause it lets me pvp against those to anti social to pvp, and I know that if my shots had any more range, I would be able to kill them in their bases without the guards noticing (i've actually done it before on tatooine) I'd love the extra range, don't get me wrong, but it could be a little too much, and I don't wanna get nerfed, you all saw how bad they hit the operative, I don't want that hitting us too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMrHappyx Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 which outfit? can somebody link? I'm curious. ^_^ (don't know what 'progression' video is referring to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That'd be super sweet. I'd be even willing to switch to light armour if that would be implemented, it would add so much more Sniperish feel to the overall gameplay regarding the class. Which is Sniper. No flashing billboards as a cover please! I dont actually like this. It means That I can only use ambush once, until I am out of combat and it resets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) which outfit? can somebody link? I'm curious. ^_^ (don't know what 'progression' video is referring to) Edited February 8, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I dont actually like this. It means That I can only use ambush once, until I am out of combat and it resets. It doesn't have to work like that, infact the whole class needs a thorough overhaul, if you ask me. Edited February 8, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) It doesn't have to work like that, infact the whole class needs a thorough overhaul, if you ask me. I like where it is aside from some tweaks needed(besides its too late to overhaul), But its not really a sniper class ,its more a recon scout/light infantry. For it to be a sniper class, yes you would need to overhaul it as you say Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I like where it is aside from some tweaks needed(besides its too late to overhaul), But its not really a sniper class ,its more a recon scout/light infantry. For it to be a sniper class, yes you would need to overhaul it as you say It's not too late at all if the base fanboy consensus is to defend everything in therms of "WoW didn't have this or that when it launched". Blizzard overhauled the classes many times, with a rough hand too, but they also gave the class talent tree changes free of charge when ever they did that. Meaning there was no cost to change your class tree talent choices in game when they did major chances to a class. Edited February 8, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) It's not too late at all if the base fanboy consensus is to defend everything in therms of "WoW didn't have this or that when it launched". Blizzard overhauled the classes many times, with a rough hand too, but they also gave the class talent tree changes free of charge when ever they did that. Meaning there was no cost to change your class tree talent choices in game. I guess I’m just used to feat trees and talents been broken for a LONG LONG time. In AoC overhauls didn’t happen for an eternity I’m really investing hope into the legacy advancement offering something more than fluff (although thats highly doubtful) Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadsithdread Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 remove take cover and get heavy armor instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayestes Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Interesting, I haven't really thought about problems with the Sniper in terms of the energy mechanic as a whole. Does this mean you are in favor of scrapping the energy system? Having a higher energy pool and/or reducing energy cost of abilities? Reducing force pools of other classes? I like the mechanic and I'm quite fond of it personally. It's just in comparison it seems Snipers get screwed in terms of resource management when playing the other classes. I think it just needs to be looked at, not destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I guess I’m just used to feat trees and talents been broken for a LONG LONG time. In AoC overhauls didn’t happen for an eternity I’m really investing hope into the legacy advancement offering something more than fluff (although thats highly doubtful) AoC didn't do very well. I'm not saying that the FOTM pattern that Blizzard ended with is in any means good, but I think sometimes you need to really check out the basics and how the class works on it's own initial role and in comparison to other classes, and have the guts to make some radical chances in benefit of the class and overall class balance. Edited February 8, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 snipers/gunslingers need a baseline snare. its ridiculous that they dont have one and every other ranged class does. simply stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triik Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 All I want is that snipers to never use natural cover, I'm sick of trying to get into cover but instead roll off a ledge in huttball, roll into an aoe (void star first door). I already have portable cover, I don't natural cover anymore. At least give me the option to turn it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 All I want is that snipers to never use natural cover, I'm sick of trying to get into cover but instead roll off a ledge in huttball, roll into an aoe (void star first door). I already have portable cover, I don't natural cover anymore. At least give me the option to turn it off. Why don't you take a look at your bindings? There's a crouch binding and a roll to cover binding. Why do people talk about bindings without actually opening their bindings options? Tired of seeing people act as if they're being forced to roll to cover when they don't bother to look at their bindings and learn what they're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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