IcRocklee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Or doing like Rocklee up there and pulling out a half-dozen pairs of pants. I am fond of pants. I have a pair for everyday of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 This is just....win.... Anywho, I totally dig this idea. I mean, I'm not even level 50 yet (Level 47/Rank 47), but I can totally see this RNG being really irritating. I know, right? Dude wrote me a -haiku-. I got warm fuzzies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deceptius Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Another day being a battle-master with NO champion weapon still...and once again ZERO drops with battle-master commendations. Brilliant system BioWare, just brilliant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaderin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I actually really like the idea of class/role based pvp dailies. It would mean you actually have to focus on doing what you're supposed to be doing. A daily victory pvp quest for each warzone would also be a great step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I actually really like the idea of class/role based pvp dailies. It would mean you actually have to focus on doing what you're supposed to be doing. A daily victory pvp quest for each warzone would also be a great step forward. One part consistently rewarding with gear advancement, one part social engineering, TEN PARTS AWESOME. That's what this whole thing is about! And quests for each warzone are kinda neat, but lemme tell ya, Warhammer did that and you had to go to the four corners of the Goddamned earth to pick them up and nothing but Tor Anroc popped and Goddamn it was a giant pain in my balls. So there's some good designwork to be done re: Warzone-specific quests if they're to come into the game. But it's not a bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I am fond of pants. I have a pair for everyday of the week. You are a pants-wearin' mother ****er, that's certainly the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Another day being a battle-master with NO champion weapon still...and once again ZERO drops with battle-master commendations. Brilliant system BioWare, just brilliant.... A ton of people are having this problem! BioWare made themselves a system that would give them some time to make new content and release new stuff... only that system sometimes inordinately rewards players. So now, instead of folks toiling away to get the last few pieces of gear, they're either geared to the teeth after a few dailies and a weekly, or they have no gear at all after opening sixty bags. So some folks will quit 'cuz they have nothing to do and some folks will quit because other folks get stacked gear for no better reason than 'I rolled high on my dice eight times in a row'. Ridiciulous. If BioWare wants to set a timeline for the release of new content and new PvP sets, they should have a system that requires a certain number of hours (or even days!) be spent doing something like this, or waiting for cooldowns, or what-have-you. I don't think you'd have to make my quests daily at all; you'd just have to make them take enough games that even playing 16 hours a day you won't just get all ten pieces in a week. That said, you'd definitely get a few pieces. And you could see yourself progressing towards each one, which instills an important sense of momentum. It can include movement -without- being super quick geared-in-a-week fast and without being huge-grindwall this-game-sucks slow. Still, I've mentioned all this before. It's important, and I'm glad you guys are supporting me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorshard Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 An even simpler solution would be to double the price of the bags and guarantee an item in them. You'll still have the dupe problems but at that rate you should get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 An even simpler solution would be to double the price of the bags and guarantee an item in them. You'll still have the dupe problems but at that rate you should get it. Naw, the dupe problems are almost the worst part of it. You know how many copies of the same gear I got in gold bags in WAR? Lots. Lots and lots and lots. Tons and tons of them. I filled a whole bag with worthless bags. That is ******** RNG, just like it is ******** RNG now. Reducing the amount of ******** RNG does not -fix- it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthGoriand Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Went through 12 bags wednesday, 1 token 34 commendations...and the token was for an implant I already had. Needless to say I'm not terribly fond of pvping all day and getting nothing. Just change the Champion/Battlemaster bags to have a set amount of commendations (not 3 are you serious?) so people can just BUY the gear they want. Thats another annoying thing....open a bag and get 1 token and 1 commendation, or 3 commendations...thats a HUGE difference in rewards. Not to mention you get tokens for the high level gear and commendations for the low level gear, in interest of balance that should be reversed. Edited January 20, 2012 by DarthGoriand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 5 more bags with no **** in it **** this game I quit. **** Bioware for coming up with this stupid system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcRocklee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 5 more bags with no **** in it **** this game I quit. **** Bioware for coming up with this stupid system IMO quitting or threatening to quit isn't the way to get things to be changed. Being vocal and eloquent about problems will help the devs realize that things could be different (and better even). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG_jhanlec Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In progress, they may look like this! Mercenary Warzone Mastery I: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 22/36 Healing Medals in Warzones: 5/8 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 47/64 Sniper Warzone Mastery IV: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 27/44 Solo Kill Medals in Warzones: 20/20 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 68/75 Good Idea, but I would be very curious how they create goals for each class. e.g. As a tank spec jugger I dont get a ton of KBs, in 50-100 VS wins I have never gotten a terminal slice (watch SI sprint to it and do it). With classes that offer 2 trees grossly different it would be interesting to see what they would do then. Could they split Heal tree from DPS tree so that DPS dont need to respec to heal to get that done? Would a Jugg have Tank based goals for 1 while a Veng or Fury Jugg has damage and KB goals? What about hybrids. A big tank spec atm is acutally something like 14 Inv, 27 Veng... so this tank will be assume a DPS? Again, its a great idea, but is probably more complicated to set up than it initially seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixMinuteAbs Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Over the past 2 weeks, i have gotten 3 champ belts and 3 champ gloves and 2 earpieces... no guns(merc) and i've bought a few cent pieces with coms... getting tired of opening bags to find duplicates that sell for 1 credit at the vendor... I can pull the 56 mods out of the gloves, and i have, but c'mon... do i just keep getting duplicates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theballzz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have a full champ set... But now that i have it. I am having this issue with the BM set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 5 more bags with no **** in it **** this game I quit. **** Bioware for coming up with this stupid system Well im sure they will work on it, but later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have a full champ set... But now that i have it. I am having this issue with the BM set. Its a grind, i would be hella sad to complete a set after a week of pvp, thats just hella boring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 While I agree with the concept in theory, medals are as flawed as anything else in the system; besides defender points, they significantly encourage people to not take part in the objectives of a given map, most of the time. The one who runs around randomly killing people always scores more than the ones who cap the objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qeuzolt Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 'Let's see if purples drop' is getting old fast. Every guild has a guy who's opened thirty bags and not gotten a single piece of gear out of them. My guildie has been doing PvP dailies and weeklies for a solid month and still doesn't have a mainhand lightsaber that's worth a damn. There's another guy, same class, who is purpled out. These two guys have been running together this entire time; one is geared, the other is shafted. There're a bunch of ways to fix this, but I think that the -best- way (that still remains reasonably easy to do) is to have a quest chain. In progress, they may look like this! Mercenary Warzone Mastery I: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 22/36 Healing Medals in Warzones: 5/8 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 47/64 Sniper Warzone Mastery IV: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 27/44 Solo Kill Medals in Warzones: 20/20 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 68/75 Reward: One piece of PvP tier gear, your choice. Each reptition of the quest, the numbers get a little larger; 38 intead of 36. NO BIG JUMPS. Progression, not sudden, irritating grindwalls. Give people a real objective instead of 'get bag, hope for loot'. And adding passes, plants and slices to this equation means even people who only want to kill will have a -good reason- to complete victory conditions instead of going straight for killing enemies. Don't say 'win games to get bags', say 'do these objectives to get gear'; winning games will progress naturally from people having a good reason to do objectives instead of just fight the enemy. Random bags are not interesting, they're not fun, and they do not drive the player to do anything except -show up- for games. Yes, winning has incentive. No, winning does not have clear goals set before players who do not have the interest to play the gametypes. I like this idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eradicatelol Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Quitting till they fix **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 While I agree with the concept in theory, medals are as flawed as anything else in the system; besides defender points, they significantly encourage people to not take part in the objectives of a given map, most of the time. The one who runs around randomly killing people always scores more than the ones who cap the objective. I've said this a few times in the thread already, but a short rehash won't hurt a thing, I don't think! The medals are a way for the quest to count progress that -does not- add any new programming requirement to the game. It would be a simple scripting job that even a low-level designer could do, possibly even in a single day's work, that would create incentive to both act like their class is designed to act (by making tanks protect, healers heal, or DPS hand out unholy beatdowns) and also incentivize performing objectives as well. Notice that objectives are the highest numerical requirement! This is partially due to the fact that they have no limit. I'm using Medals because you can only get so many of each in a round; by making a requirement for DPS medals, you make it so that you can't cheese your way through by passing a zillion Huttballs. No way to cheese yourself into 16 DPS medals in one match; you can only get 3, max. That's why I'm using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Good Idea, but I would be very curious how they create goals for each class. e.g. As a tank spec jugger I dont get a ton of KBs, in 50-100 VS wins I have never gotten a terminal slice (watch SI sprint to it and do it). With classes that offer 2 trees grossly different it would be interesting to see what they would do then. Could they split Heal tree from DPS tree so that DPS dont need to respec to heal to get that done? Would a Jugg have Tank based goals for 1 while a Veng or Fury Jugg has damage and KB goals? What about hybrids. A big tank spec atm is acutally something like 14 Inv, 27 Veng... so this tank will be assume a DPS? Again, its a great idea, but is probably more complicated to set up than it initially seems. Well, it might be more -complex- than it seems in terms of creating reasonable goals for each class, including those who can spec either heal or DPS. That said, its complexity doesn't make it hard to -script-, which is where the real problem steps in when it comes to MMO teams. Even if this system is complex, it can be worked out on a whiteboard by a few folks, but more importantly, it does not require real coders to do; a low-level designer can make a quest, while changing the way Medals work or making other serious system editions can require the input of several branches of the MMO team. And yes, as above, tank missions would be mostly about absorbing damage and protecting ball runners, DPS/Heal missions would have two separate missions they could pick up which are mutually exclusive and reward gear appropriate for the DPS or healing side, whether by set bonuses or through heavier emphasis on power or survivability, and suchlike. The whole thing would take time to make and design, yes, but its implementation is extremely simple in comparison to an overhaul of how Medals or PvP objective XP/Valor work, or even a bugfix release involving making wins count for your dailies and weeklies 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its a grind, i would be hella sad to complete a set after a week of pvp, thats just hella boring... Yes, but it's a grind for a CHANCE to get gear... and not even a good chance. It's a grind so that at the end of the grind you -may- get (assuming you turn in both daily and weekly quests) four pieces of gear in one day! You may also get **** and shoved in it. My roomie has a pair of pants for every day of the week and still has never seen a weapon drop. RNG bags are a bad design. If you want to make it a grind, fine, whatever, but instead of making the progress points along your grind curve a -chance- to get stuff like some insane Asian F2P, make the progress points along your grind curve have verifiable, viable, -useful- gear at every step. Know you're getting closer and closer to gear instead of doing your daily, getting a bag, and pulling your eighth pair of gloves or your tenth implant. It is not progression if your progression is based on gambling for items. It's just gambling. You need to give people -real incentive- to do these things or else some will get decked, bored, and quit, and some will get screwed, get pissed, and quit. The current system rewards luck of the draw. My system rewards making specific efforts and spending a very easily editable amount of time per gear piece (via using medals that can only be achieved so often in games, unlike some games whose only quest point is 'pass the ball X times' and have players do nothing but pass back and forth until they get their quest tick) in games, doing what you're supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruwe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Bumping for points. Since last night I completed two daily's a weekly and purchased a bag... I got.... one more implant... I think I'm up to 5 or 6 implants now? While the system you have suggested may not be perfect, and def needs polishing, it is better than the pure *random* they have now and better than most idea's that have been put forward. Point in case I have a companion that is nearly as geared out as I am..... Y.A.Y. I am not all that high in the valor rank, I am only rank 39, but I have opened numerous bags (going on three weeks of 90% pvp for 4-5 hours a night) and don't have a main hand, chest or head piece, centurion boots/offhand/legs, but boy buddy I have a seletion of implants/earpieces!!!! The low tier pvp gear is a joke, I took the only two low level pvp pieces that were even a lateral improvement that I could, I lost 16 endurance and gained 3 will. Now for another suggestion that I think has merit that was mentioned. Put in a vendor to exchange your centurion or champ commendations for the next tier higher, they can even keep the same ratio as merc... 3 to 1 or whatever they feel is appropriate. At least then I would be able to make progression towards the gear that would help me to improve. It would still be a grind fest, people can keep their oh so happy joy joy random drop bags, but I would have a quantifiable progression towards my next piece of gear. And you had mentioned coding time.... This isn't even a day or an afternoon, this a couple of hours for a competent coder to add to an existing vendor. Just food for thought, I do think that class based objectives would assist in improving the game and players overall understanding of their class, but at this point I would settle for a means to have progression. Edited January 20, 2012 by Ruwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asinthe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I really dig the suggestions you've made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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