Mirialol Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 much better idea than lame bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keevae Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Anything to change the current system. And I'm not bitter over not having gear. It's exactly other way around. I have both my main spec set and off-spec set on 5/5, 3 mainhand tokens, 2 wrist tokens and 2 boot tokens spare laying in my bank. My friend who I'm doing WZs with still doesn't even have 1 full set. Luck factor is all fine and dandy when it comes to PvE drops, because quite often there will be someone around who can use the drop, but in PVP, when only I'm able to open the bag, and I'm not able to trade the contents with other players it just creates another layer of imbalance between the players. The whole system as it is was badly implemented allowing some people to skip first tier (Centurion) of gear with first few lucky bags, while others may grind up all the way to rank 60, and still not have full Champion set. Personally I'd prefer if the daily/weekly PVP quests instead choice between bags would simply give us choice between commendations, and each tier up in commendations would require higher valor rank. (Centurion - none or 10, Champion 30 or 40, Battlemaster 60). That way everyone would get what they currently need, rather than the frustration of 10-15 "empty" bags in row. Edited January 20, 2012 by Keevae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 This is exactly what I'm talking about. The current system doesn't reward anything but presence. You were there! Grats! Here's a bag because you were on the winning side for a few games. Thanks for playing! Oh, but the bag very often has nothing in it, so there's no real reason to pursue them. They're a natural consequence of queueing up with a quest, but really, nothing you do (save win games, and rarely can someone singlehandedly affect the outcome of a game) actually makes it happen faster or improves the rewards you get. That is *********** stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwillaa Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes, this is a fantastic idea. The current system is terrible and way too much RNG... I've opened a bunch of bags now and I got luck - 1 belt so far. Its just too random and isn't fair for those people who are valor 70 and have nothing while someone who is valor 20 may have full sets. Why no reward for their work (i'm one of the valor 20s i'm angry on your behalf!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamasee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'd seriously like to add my $0.02 in haiku: A good idea, This should be implemented, today, soon, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not even 50 yet. Bag systems with random gear are just outright bad design. It's lazy, it's sloppy, it's slipshod and it has no place in a game with such an incredible amount of money in it. They need to be paying someone to do new, interesting, nuanced things that help bad players become better and that reward players who really go out of their way to do well with quicker progression when they play the gametypes as they're intended to be played. At current, their PvP loot and progression systems are so old-fashioned that the damn things smell like mothballs and camphor and onions. They're moldy, they're outmoded, they reward the wrong people for the wrong reasons, and they need to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcskeet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 'Let's see if purples drop' is getting old fast. Every guild has a guy who's opened thirty bags and not gotten a single piece of gear out of them. My guildie has been doing PvP dailies and weeklies for a solid month and still doesn't have a mainhand lightsaber that's worth a damn. There's another guy, same class, who is purpled out. These two guys have been running together this entire time; one is geared, the other is shafted. There're a bunch of ways to fix this, but I think that the -best- way (that still remains reasonably easy to do) is to have a quest chain. In progress, they may look like this! Mercenary Warzone Mastery I: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 22/36 Healing Medals in Warzones: 5/8 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 47/64 Sniper Warzone Mastery IV: DPS-focused Medals in Warzones: 27/44 Solo Kill Medals in Warzones: 20/20 Complete Huttball passes, Ball Handler Kill Assists, Bomb Plants/Disarms, or Terminal Slices: 68/75 Reward: One piece of PvP tier gear, your choice. Each reptition of the quest, the numbers get a little larger; 38 intead of 36. NO BIG JUMPS. Progression, not sudden, irritating grindwalls. Give people a real objective instead of 'get bag, hope for loot'. And adding passes, plants and slices to this equation means even people who only want to kill will have a -good reason- to complete victory conditions instead of going straight for killing enemies. Don't say 'win games to get bags', say 'do these objectives to get gear'; winning games will progress naturally from people having a good reason to do objectives instead of just fight the enemy. Random bags are not interesting, they're not fun, and they do not drive the player to do anything except -show up- for games. Yes, winning has incentive. No, winning does not have clear goals set before players who do not have the interest to play the gametypes. Bravo OP, I actually hope this gets implemented. This seems like a very solid system that will encourage more objective playing in the War Zones. However, there will still be disadvantages to this system. A heal sorc gets maybe 10k dps a game. You see what i'm getting at, so this would have to be remedied based on spec and class. Just a thought, we should be able to pick whether we want the quest with 20 dps medals to tier up, and 20 heal medals to tier up. How about protection as well? etc. Do the Bioware-Dev-Dance and get them to come over here and take a look at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renvious Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 This is ridiculous. Twenty champion bags and zero pieces of gear. Whoever thought random bags was a good idea needs to be hit by a bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Bravo OP, I actually hope this gets implemented. This seems like a very solid system that will encourage more objective playing in the War Zones. However, there will still be disadvantages to this system. A heal sorc gets maybe 10k dps a game. You see what i'm getting at, so this would have to be remedied based on spec and class. Just a thought, we should be able to pick whether we want the quest with 20 dps medals to tier up, and 20 heal medals to tier up. How about protection as well? etc. Do the Bioware-Dev-Dance and get them to come over here and take a look at this. Please note the 'Mercenary' and 'Sniper' in those quest names! I imagine the quest-givers would have to give healing-focused quests as well, which would result in healing-focused gear. I thought that was kind of implied but I honestly didn't take into account that Ops and Mercs both have healing trees that they could decide to really main into. So! The preliminary idea is not without its flaws, but the system is viable as a fix to making these awful bags and medals head off. I actually sent a few Facebook notes to Bioware devs (notably Gabe, among others) with a polite request to start some kind of dialogue. I've been lucky before, who knows. Edited January 20, 2012 by JackKerras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPureBalance Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 While the randomness is dumb, in most other MMO's you wouldn't have a piece of the top tier pvp gear more than once every 2 weeks for the most part. I mean some of these people are making it like they should get 2 pieces within 7 bags or something. The same item thing is indeed dumb, but honestly since you can get 2 bags a day and more than 14 a week, you really shouldn't get more than 3 pieces of battlemaster gear per month. RNG gave some more and some less, but the reality is that even the people who have had middle of the road drop rate have gotten a little too much. If they were to implement your quest idea they would also need to limit it to being a quest you can only do like twice a month and have the bags only contain commendations. Hell a lot of the things you stated for the quest still aren't a testament to skill much like the rank system which you can do little to nothing to get the upper ranks. So yeah quest idea is good if limited to twice a month rather than the increasing requirements and bump the reqs up to something that would take the average person 2 weeks to do whereas avid players of warzones would have done in a week. However, the requirements would also have to be something that isn't very RNG itself. Getting the ball in huttball and passing it could 1) be exploited and 2) can be difficult to get the ball in many cases. Or let's say planting the bomb on voidstar a lot of times you don't have that luxury as let's say in my case I kite/distract people while someone plants the bomb. The idea is an improvement, but still very very rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm glad you think so! The idea -is- very rough. It was my intention to put forth an idea that could be implemented with a small team in a short time with no need to add new tools or make major changes to the way the PvP system works. There are -a lot more-, -a lot better- fixes for things like Warzone-focused PvP progression, leveling curves, and the like. This is a very basic fix that could help people who do not have the crazy bag luck that some folks find themselves with and create some player satisfaction while more complex, more nuanced systems are programmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eradicatelol Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Seems a pretty nice idea, Anything to take out these horrid RNG bags. Disappointment at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JahloveFH Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 did an experiment because i have experienced this ********. opened 20 bags got 5 pieces which is great 1/4 right? yet 3 of them were duplicates....this system needs to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 From another thread: Just to be clear... If it took 30 commendations, at 3 per bag, that would be 10 bags. Every bag I got I would know that I was 10% closer to the next piece of gear. That would be great. I could look forward to every step along the way. I would be excited about every single bag because I would know I was getting steadily closer. The current random system completely cheats players of this enjoyment. Each time you open a bag and it has nothing, you are sent right back to the beginning. You are no closer at all to a decent piece of gear. Devs: Understand why the current random system is a complete, miserable failure? Muckbeast is 100% right. The relevant line here is 'completely cheats players of enjoyment'. Without progression, forward motion, and a sense of momentum, people stop being interested in playing. Making mice press a button over and over again (which -sometimes- yields food) works for mice, but people have the ability to get disinterested and find a new game, and that is precisely what they'll do. That said, the Warhammer Online system (lol 4-6 commendations per fight, 1150 commendations to buy a piece of gear) is bad, too; yes, you're getting closer, but -good heavens- the road is so long you may as well just go hit Prestige 480,392 on Call of Duty or something and have more fun in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcskeet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Please note the 'Mercenary' and 'Sniper' in those quest names! I imagine the quest-givers would have to give healing-focused quests as well, which would result in healing-focused gear. I thought that was kind of implied but I honestly didn't take into account that Ops and Mercs both have healing trees that they could decide to really main into. So! The preliminary idea is not without its flaws, but the system is viable as a fix to making these awful bags and medals head off. I actually sent a few Facebook notes to Bioware devs (notably Gabe, among others) with a polite request to start some kind of dialogue. I've been lucky before, who knows. I have a few friends I've known long before they were hired on as dev's at bioware, and I will shoot this over to them for sure. They aren't exactly... part of this department, but they should know the ones who are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 From another thread: Muckbeast is 100% right. The relevant line here is 'completely cheats players of enjoyment'. Without progression, forward motion, and a sense of momentum, people stop being interested in playing. Making mice press a button over and over again (which -sometimes- yields food) works for mice, but people have the ability to get disinterested and find a new game, and that is precisely what they'll do. That said, the Warhammer Online system (lol 4-6 commendations per fight, 1150 commendations to buy a piece of gear) is bad, too; yes, you're getting closer, but -good heavens- the road is so long you may as well just go hit Prestige 480,392 on Call of Duty or something and have more fun in the process. Literally sums up how I feel with PvP exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have a few friends I've known long before they were hired on as dev's at bioware, and I will shoot this over to them for sure. They aren't exactly... part of this department, but they should know the ones who are. Hearing things like this makes me happy. If they ever want to bounce ideas or hear something they haven't heard a hundred times before, I'm always around, and I looooove systems with real nuance and interesting choices made throughout! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 OP that's actually a really intuitive and amazing idea for an MMO. I award you 10 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Im one of those that got all geared in the first 12 bags... and still u got my /bump It felt too easy... now im just playing the warzone getting the gear just for the mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Im one of those that got all geared in the first 12 bags... and still u got my /bump It felt too easy... now im just playing the warzone getting the gear just for the mods Yep. And my roomie has opened 40+ bags and is STILL missing pieces. He has PvE gear to offset that with, but it's still a ***** to have five pairs of pants and no lightsaber. It doesn't even sniff your inventory to see what piece to give you. It just rolls one up and, when you have 9/10 slots full, has a 90% chance to dick you over even if it DOES drop gear. Cruddy system. There are fixes they could make (like sniffing inventory, etc.) but it would be better to set clear goals for players to accomplish; this helps to create that feeling of momentum I mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvsdead Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) reminds me of the Battlefield 2 or even Call of Duty progression systems - use your weapons more and you'll improve them but instead it is do your job more and you'll be rewarded for your efforts. excellent idea and with more tweaking would be actual fantastic. I can't tell you how shafted I feel every time I open one of these god forsaken champ bags. The current method of distributing Champ gear is the worst idea ever. The fact they're still adamant about this system is insulting to their player base. Whoever came up with it should be fired on the spot. Hell, someone should start a petition to have him fired or demoted. I would sign it in a heartbeat. People hate the current system because it is neither fun nor rewarding. Make the rewarding of gear at least one of the two - not just a "good luck" grind wall. Edited January 20, 2012 by manvsdead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carebear Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No idea how they thought a RNG bag system would be fun. Maybe if it was like a 50% drop wouldn't be too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eradicatelol Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No idea how they thought a RNG bag system would be fun. Maybe if it was like a 50% drop wouldn't be too bad. ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 No idea how they thought a RNG bag system would be fun. Maybe if it was like a 50% drop wouldn't be too bad. A 50% rate to drop an item that has an equal chance to be an item you already have? It'd be better, but it certainly wouldn't be -good-. Again, with 9/10 slots, you're looking at a 50% chance of getting a drop at all, and then of that chance, 10% of the items that could drop will be usable. Flip a coin. If tails, roll a D10. If 10, you get gear. Those odds are -ultra- ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkochhead Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 agree completely. I have yet to get a single piece of champion gear in countless bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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