Why everyone wants to roll Empire.

[Evray]

Alright, we all know, Bioware and/or EA and/or Mythic has really screwed up the game quite a bit. Balancing issues in terms of class/crewskills, glaring glitches and issues with pvp and an assortment of customer service problems etc. etc. etc.

 

But right now, were here to talk about why everyone wants to roll Empire. I personally have characters on both (want to see every class story) but I mostly 'main' Republic. On average days, the people in most cities or fleets is usually about 3/5 or 4/5 favoring the Empire.

 

Republic is often outnumbered by the Empire in warzones, and Illum. With the implementation of Illum PVP and its 'changes' this make the Empire look even more appetizing. Why roll Republic when, despite having top gear armor, you will still get face rolled because you are simply outnumbered? The answer is simple: Join the Empire.

 

We could argue that the 'light/dark' sides to the factions can sway people but its not a major in game reason to help explain why it seems Bioware has been pushing for the Empire's side. Maybe its just me, but leading up to Launch most the videos made the Empire seem like the way to go, and now the game is speaking the same to me: Join the Empire.

 

As a level 21 smuggler (mostly questing, but sprinkled in with pvp a bit of flashpoints and space combat) I have logged more /played hours into it, then I have my level 22 imperial agent. I have noticed similar tendencies on the sith warrior/jedi knight. It took me almost 3 more /played hours to get to level 10 on my Jedi Knight than it did my Sith Warrior. To solve this problem we have a simple answer: Join the Empire.

 

Cosmetically speaking Jedi Knight robes often look great minus the ridiculously big butts. Sith robes don't seem to have nearly as much of a problem with this and tend to be slimmer. Agents and smugglers seem pretty even, and bounty hunters and troopers maintain good icon looks. Unless your talking about the major planets owned by their respective factions, and those faction's epic gear.

 

Anyone who has switched characters from a character sitting in the Republic Fleet to the Imperial Fleet can clearly see that Kira was right when she said "all the fashion designers went over to the Empire." The capital Dromund Kass is a stunning sight to behold, especially Kaas City. Coruscant is nice, and the Senate building is inspiring, but the rest of the planet is very dull. The two space stations of the respective fleets are also completely off.

 

The Republic fleet versus the Imperial fleet in terms of design is huge. The Republic side is drab, boring and the only redeeming features is its over-all basic design concept and its fountains (yeahhh). However, go Imperial and the middle pillar of the entire station moves, with a large Imperial sign waiting for you. You know all those little 'rooms' on the edge of the space station on the republic side that have large black walls in the way? Completely gone Imperial side. Not only is the Imperial fleet more color coordinated, its also leaves you in Awe. I wouldn't even know the other station was Republic owned if not for the occasional flag. And don't get me started about the Jedi Knight samurai end game gear versus the much more intimidating Imperial armors. Want any sense of fashion or style? The answer seems pretty clear: Join the Empire.

 

There is absolutely no Republic love.

[Lealz]

Agree 100% they clearly took way more time and effort into empire side than republic...it seems like they just got lazy...no excuse

[Tiberians]

hmprh The only reason I went Impy, was cause they have Bounty Hunter. I ahve Reb toons but atm I am putting more focus on leveling me Imp toons up.

[AugustBurnt]

my server is about 55-45 ratio. As far as devs favoring a side... lolwut?

[Partyrockk]

Cosmetically speaking Jedi Knight robes often look great minus the ridiculously big butts.

yeah what's up with that?

[MikeMonger]

*sigh*

 

People complained about this is WoW too.

 

"There are too many Horde and it's RUINING THE GAME!!!!!!!"

 

The imbalances will work their own way out. Why? Because people who want to PvP will roll Republic toons, so they don't spend all night sitting around in queues and/or constantly doing nothing but playing Huttball.

Edited January 22, 2012 by MikeMonger

[AlphaBraddox]

I dont think BW favored a side but players in general wanna play the bad guy since most games you are playing a good guy. Like letting your inner bad boy out...heh.

[Ezarai]

/snip.

 

Purple Lightning > Pebbles

Edited January 22, 2012 by Ezarai

[Ganymedea]

my server is about 55-45 ratio. As far as devs favoring a side... lolwut?

 

Anecdotal evidence, eh.

 

HAY GUYS. MY SERVER IS ABOUT EVEN SO THAT MEANS THERE'S NO REASON TO COMPLAIN THAT MOST ARE NOT.

[BrianDavion]

ok let's shift the arguement a bit, and focus on what BW would actually have to offer here, HOW would BW be best served to provide incentives to play for the republic?

 

remember they can't give mechanical advantages, (although I've seen it argued there already argueably is some minor ones) .

 

so how would BW incentiveize the Reps?

[Darth_Grissom]

I wnet empire because of the imperial agent, thats it, and thats all.

 

My wife went empire because

 

a. I did and

 

b. She shoots lightning.

[Aristopantys]

I never understood why everyone wants to play Defiant... erm, Destruction.... I mean, Horde...DAMN! We want red eyes!

[cyco]

OK, I've posted in a few threads with possible solutions, but most of them were pushed back in forums because this is a busy place.

 

Possible ideas that could be used to help promote republic (please not this is going to ignore response issue, possible changes that will be brought in 1.2, since we don't really know what is going to be in it, as well as story)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Legacy System:

 

With the introduction of the legacy system it was mentioned that we would get character creation options. Lets use this to republics advantage. WE should give the republic races that are/were in more demand i.e. Mon Cal, togruta, bothan etc. There are lore reason behind why the empire doesn't have a big alien pref etc, and this is one issue that I've seen brought up many times for a reason as to why they chose A over B. This DOESN't mean that the Empire doesn't get any new races of their own. They can get other races (cant think of any at the moment, but there will be plenty to work with)

 

 

 

Animations:

 

The whole Lightning/pebbles issue. We could bring in the idea that, if you went down the dark side as a jedi your animations take on a more dark side look. For example, the combat style becomes more aggressive, brutal, the force moves could have a few sparks added to it, since your going to the dark side your going to do what is needed to get the job done. That means you'll be using lightning, angrier moves, so we could use that to make the animations of the jedi look more 'bad ***'. For those that don't want to change the move and like it, there can be a setting to turn it off, just like dark side appearance. The same could be done to Light side Sith.

 

 

Exp boost:

 

A experience boost could be given to allow players to get to 50 faster. For some players, getting to 50 again with another toon is just too much for them, but with an experience boost this will cut that down.

 

 

Credit/Bonus:

 

The republic could be given a credit/bonus for pvp, possible pve related things. For being the underdog you get given extra credits, also, in areas where there is world pvp you can give the republic side a 'bolster' boost to make the fewer republic characters strong based of the imbalance in the area. The larger the imbalance the greater the boost. As the numbers even out, so does the boost. This can also be applied to Empire if the situation changes.

[Mordrakgore]

A big enough reason to chose Empire over Republic is Dromund Kaas vs Coruscant. Coruscant is by far the worst experience I've had in game. Insane amount of running and most is done without the Sprint ability aswell. Dromund Kaas is so much better designed.

[OBLCDiomedes]

My friend and I 2 manned Black Talon. 11 Sniper and 11 Mercenary. No problems.

 

We did the same thing as an 11 Vanguard and 11 Gunslinger on the Republic side.

 

First pull. Two golds. We got our asses handed to us.

[Redsuns_]

Add in unfair animations for republic.

 

I have not seen such horribly blatant biased against a faction in a mmo ever.

[Rhazesx]

Make Jawas playable to Republic side and I will reroll and sub for a year in advance.

[Carealot]

There are a number of issues that caused the problem and a number of potential solutions.

 

As for the causes.

 

Class Mirrors-TOR's mirrors are so exact that they eliminate a need to discriminate about faction choice when choosing a role. People go for discrepancies intentionally to maximize their potential but if, for example, a Jedi isn't better and worse at something than a Sith, most people will ignore this as a reason to choose the class.

 

Aesthetics-With exact mirrors providing fertile ground for subjective class choice, we get to the problem everyone already knows, so I won't go into it here. I will elaborate though that the Republic will never match the Empire aesthetically due to the way the franchise has evolved since the prequel trilogy (yes I know, it ruined everything etc). The prequels greatest accomplishment was to make the Jedi boring and stuffy, and the KotOR games only exacerbated this trend further in the gaming community by contrasting even more boring and stuffy Jedi with Revan, the franchises greatest Mary Sue. I was in a guild once where the leader thought that everyone would go Republic because of an obsession with Luke Skywalker, but he was older and I suppose didn't realize that everyone under 25 has spent the bulk of their time with the franchise shooting purple lightning in black cloaks and generally being bad-*** instead of an emotionally sterile warrior monk.

 

PvP-I was into the hardcore scene (lol) for MMO PvP for about a decade and a half until recently and when I got around to picking up this game found that a grand total of one committed PvP guild I've been in/fought against was rolling Republic, and it was an RP-PvP guild. Unfortunately these guilds also evolved into a role of being bad-asses and generally contrary to their less bloodthirsty neighbors. They don't want to play the "good guys" because they're universally vain and obsessed about their image. Self-absorbed people aren't the first to notice or care about revelations like all of them rolling the same faction. They won't reroll to balance it out because they'll risk their reputation by giving up their gains. The most hardcore ones won't even use their guild name unless success is a foregone conclusion. It's a weird crowd, and catering to them is impossible, so don't bother.

 

Species diversity-Making the Empire equally diverse was another terrible idea. I'm looking at the creation screen now and we have.

 

Human, Blind Human, Twi-lek (obligatory), normal-looking Zabrak, and green human

 

Human, Sith pureblood (are you kidding me?), cyborg (why?), bad-***-looking Zabrak, grey human, blue human

 

The voiceovers and campaigns for empire are also generally better, making it hard not to reroll for identical gameplay and a better story. Unfortunately the Old Republic is just that, old, and the sith are the more dynamic of the two factions.

 

 

 

 

These are the big causes, but it's self-defeating to criticize without solutions. I'll eschew posting a list that would take years for them to complete in favor of a few more practical solutions.

 

Strategically overpower the Republic-This is the big one. I know that Blizzard has given a lot of newer gamers a naive sense of entitlement about class balance and, well everything, but strategically overpowering things is a time-honored and successful practice in gaming. D&D has been strategically overpowering hybrids for well over a decade, and if effectiveness was the sole reason people chose classes it would be a bad idea, but it's not the sole reason. Reworking the current classes would be the easiest way to do this, but is almost suicidal in a game where 75 percent of the population is the faction being dialed down. Creating two new non-mirrored classes and making the Republic one better would be the most effective way to get a surge of people rerolling and dragging their friends with them, but in this game it seems like that would take a long time to pull off due to everything having to be voiced over.

 

 

Faction reward balance-This is a really easy one that's been done since Planetside and probably even earlier examples that don't immediately occur to me. You give the outnumbered factions a bonus in valor (xp would be nice but zone access and quest rewards are tailored to level ranges) proportionate to how outnumbered they are. This effects rerolls more than new players but it's an easy solution.

 

Eventually correct faction diversity-This isn't an immediate problem and I know they'd need to design all new animations for non-human races, but I'm not sympathetic when it should have already been done. Hell races like Togruta animate like humans anyway, and you wouldn't even need to do voice overs for Rodians, Ilthorians, etc. When playing Republic I don't really get the sense I'm part of an inclusive, cosmopolitan culture any more than Empire, I just notice the discrepancy slightly less.

[Jeedaix]

2 words why loads of EMP's doesn't bother me..... target rich

[Huhn]

I enjoy the stories and questing more on the empire side. I have a level 30 jedi Sage. and a level 16 Sniper. The imperial agent storyline is really cool as well. the Sage story is kind of meh.

[Sky_walkerPL]

There's more to the list:

 

Empire has better race choices (eg. They get chiss, we get green ogres) and even if both sides have exact same race: it's the empire that gets more characteristic looking chars (republican zabrak is human with itny horns on head, empire zabrak has strong facial features, tatoos and more skin tones to pick from)

 

Skills that suppose to be mirrors often aren't mirrors and it's in favor of Empire (look at pvp forum)

 

Companions take MUCH more interactions in dialogs on Empire side than they do on Republic after the initial storyline leading to obtain them.

 

The only good Point for republic side I see now is that we don't have to struggle with these silly armors with horns, but well... That's a whole different story.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Jetflair]

Imperial side is far more attractive.

 

Republic side looks like a big mess and cheap. Just comparing the Garrick Station to its Imperial Counterpart tells a lot. Garrick station feels like bazaar while imperial equilevant is high tech disco or casino.

 

And to be honest while idea of smuggler is good and the story is pretty good I actually hate costumes and the whole appearance. If I need to choose between IA or Smuggler, I'd choose IA any day just because looks. If you want to be galactic truck driver with Cowboy Hat Smuggler is a excellent choice.

 

 

Again what Republic side I'd describe scruffy is very eloquent on Imperial side.

Imperials have James Bond, Republic has Texas Ranger.

[Fidasaind]

*sigh*

 

People complained about this is WoW too.

 

"There are too many Horde and it's RUINING THE GAME!!!!!!!"

 

The imbalances will work their own way out. Why? Because people who want to PvP will roll Republic toons, so they don't spend all night sitting around in queues and/or constantly doing nothing but playing Huttball.

 

I keep hearing that but it is a huge change from when I played. During the vanilla/BC days, I remember being so heavily outnumbered as horde (at least on my server, Bloodscalp). There was a time that it seemed like during beta testing, everyone was the "bad guys" and when it came to release everyone was the "good guys".

 

I remember it happening in DAoC, WAR and Aion. Maybe it was just the community of players that all ended up on the same servers (we would often pick the same server). Or maybe MMO players like playing the bad guys now. I prefer the outnumbered side usually. I just wish we had the tools to fight larger numbers (like organized DAoC 8 mans fighting or at least extending disorganized zergs).

[Sky_walkerPL]

I enjoy the stories and questing more on the empire side. I have a level 30 jedi Sage. and a level 16 Sniper. The imperial agent storyline is really cool as well. the Sage story is kind of meh.

I have sniper and lvl50 shadow.

 

The difference between quality of storyline, behavior of companions and so on is so HUGE that it's beyond grasp. Jedi consular storyline is horribly dull comparing to sniper (or BH which I plaid during the beta test weekend).

But I heard optnions that Consulars get worst storyline of all in TOR cause they were late addition and...bla bla bla.

 

Well, it's republic, and we all know how bioware writers love making interesting storylines for Republic, right? Quick grasp would suggest that empire is the one to get boring storyline about being bad for being bad, while republic gets all the stories about treason, fighting for survival, battles against the odds, epic encounters, stories of love, hate, cooperation and misthrust between various races forming such a vast and diversed socieity...

But no.

Empire gets all of these while republic gets storyline of being good for being good.

*facepalm*

Edited January 22, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Wraithwarr]

ok let's shift the arguement a bit, and focus on what BW would actually have to offer here, HOW would BW be best served to provide incentives to play for the republic?

 

remember they can't give mechanical advantages, (although I've seen it argued there already argueably is some minor ones) .

 

so how would BW incentiveize the Reps?

 

 

Adding a third "grey" faction would pull some people away from Empire I think. As of right now going to Ilum is just not an option for republic players many times of the day on my server.