Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) When I was a boy, I asked my father if I could cut our grass and get paid for it. At the time he was paying some of our neighbor boys to do it for us. He said he'd be happy to, but he expected me to do just as good a job as our neighbors. "But they're bigger than me." I told him. "I'm just a kid." And what did my father tell me? "If you can't do as good a job as the other boys, you shouldn't get paid for it. It doesn't matter about why you can't do it." It was an important life lesson to learn, and I'm glad my dad taught it to me. And if it was good enough for my four year old self, its sure good enough for the most expensive MMO ever created. SW:TOR doesn't exist in a vacuum. Other games do everything this game does, and in most cases better. The only exception being the story line and the voice overs. It doesn't matter that its Bioware's first MMO... it doesn't matter that its 'only been out a month' and 'that other game has been out for 8 years!' "If you can't do as good a job as the other boys, you shouldn't get paid for it. It doesn't matter about why you can't do it." Right now: Even on top of the line computers, the game looks dated, and frame rates drop for no reason.Using your abilities is clunky half the time, and completely unresponsive the rest of the time.Mirrored classes aren't. Animation delay between JC's and SI's give the sith a clear advantage that is obvious.Despite several warnings that Illum would not work due to population imballances, they patched it in anyway. They are still unclear as to whether or not they will remove the unfair advantage that the Sith got during this.The user interface of the game is incomplete, buggy, and clunky.UI customization, Macros, and Mods are not available in this game to make up for the UI problems.Very poor customer service and heavy handed forum mods have planted their feet in the sand instead of trying to work with the users to impove the game.User feedback is still largely ignored. And that is just the obvious problems. The game has potential. But right now the only thing it has going for it are light sabers, voice acting, a decent story, and an awesome sound track. Edited January 19, 2012 by Perram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 how the hell does a four year old operate a lawnmower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 how the hell does a four year old operate a lawnmower That is kind of the point of the story, I was too young to be able to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Taril Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 /agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I have to agree on most accounts; these mistakes are not acceptable in the new generation of MMOs and all the resources they were given. First mistake had to be the Hero engine; it is a clunky prototype engine that has lots of issues and there is better looking, more functional engines to choose from. Second mistake was the design choice of how combat worked; animations have to follow through before NPCs or players receive the benefits or damage from the activated skill... which is causing most of the "Ability Lag" issues... which is bull crap, because even Rift didn't have this issue when it first came out and it is visually appealing to look at. Third mistake was the statement that all classes are mirrored... they are not. I have played both factions and noticed that the Imp classes for the majority have better options for skills and extended CCs (Which is causing a huge amount of imbalance). Bioware, please... I love this game, but you made some really noobish design choices. "It's a new game! Give it time!" that isn't the point, it is 2012 and these mistakes should not be happening. Other MMOs did the trial and error for you and you had plenty of time/money to do this decently well. Edited January 19, 2012 by ExaltusKorran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextroverse Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Perram, Excellent post, very well thought out bulletin points, and your story conveys your point well. I think you make very fair and valid points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saerith Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Well, I'd first argue that I think the game looks great. It's clearly not going for realistic visual approach, but that doesn't mean that it can't have beautiful visuals and art design (see Zelda games, Lord of the Rings Online, etc.). Visuals are about far more than just how "real" a game looks. Besides that, SWTOR has the sharpest graphics I've ever seen in an MMO. Buildings, environments, and characters are very clear and distinct. Things that I'm looking at never get blurred together. For poor performance, I expect most of those issues to be cleared up with driver updates and the like. I don't really mind slower responsiveness, but I understand why other people do. Still, I feel nothing but complete apathy on the subject. BS. I play a sage, and I only rarely get out-healed by sorcs (usually when my team is dying too fast to get any heals off in the first place). Ilum does need significant work. I'm not going to argue with that point one bit. The game did some parts of the UI very well (map features, overall simplicity, and skill panel). It did other parts poorly (inability to drag/resize most panels or open up more than two panels at once). I also really hope Bioware never implements macros. It's just easy mode, and no, I'm never going to be convinced otherwise. I've actually experienced live chat with Bioware employees on numerous occasions. In one, I had submitted a ticket offering suggestions to improve the Legacy system. In another, I asked for assistance with a chest that wouldn't open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) actually your dad should of given you more money and carried you.. This is nepotism.. This is how the world works. You look after your family and mates. Edited January 19, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Well, I'd first argue that I think the game looks great. It's clearly not going for realistic visual approach, but that doesn't mean that it can't have beautiful visuals and art design (see Zelda games, Lord of the Rings Online, etc.). Visuals are about far more than just how "real" a game looks. Besides that, SWTOR has the sharpest graphics I've ever seen in an MMO. Buildings, environments, and characters are very clear and distinct. Things that I'm looking at never get blurred together. For poor performance, I expect most of those issues to be cleared up with driver updates and the like. I don't really mind slower responsiveness, but I understand why other people do. Still, I feel nothing but complete apathy on the subject. BS. I play a sage, and I only rarely get out-healed by sorcs (usually when my team is dying too fast to get any heals off in the first place). Ilum does need significant work. I'm not going to argue with that point one bit. The game did some parts of the UI very well (map features, overall simplicity, and skill panel). It did other parts poorly (inability to drag/resize most panels or open up more than two panels at once). I also really hope Bioware never implements macros. It's just easy mode, and no, I'm never going to be convinced otherwise. I've actually experienced live chat with Bioware employees on numerous occasions. In one, I had submitted a ticket offering suggestions to improve the Legacy system. In another, I asked for assistance with a chest that wouldn't open. I can see why you don't mind the slow response... you are not a tank. Trust me, tank as a Marau or Guardian... you get stuck in infinite defense animations and cannot react based of the system that BW chose... and come back to me about it. BW has said that this is indeed a big issue, but this is something that was an issue in Beta and Alpha... what the he**? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 BS. I play a sage, and I only rarely get out-healed by sorcs (usually when my team is dying too fast to get any heals off in the first place). I don't have any experience with healing, but from a damage point of view its very true. In PvP builds Project and Shock are two of our most used abilities that are supposed to be mirrored. Those abilities play a HUGE role in our PvP tactics, and we use them constantly. Shock happens instantly. The lightning jumps from the sith in a blink of an eye and hits us for the full damage. Project has a long animation where we pull a bit of metal or rock out of the ground, and the sith only takes damage when the rock hits. How does this give the sith an advantage? Well, besides being quicker on the damage and potentially ending the fight 1.5 seconds sooner, good Sith players have learned to see the Project coming and react to it. If they stealth, go out of line of sight, or use a 'resistance' ability, they can avoid the damage entirely. Republic players don't have the same luxury. Because the lightning damages us as soon as they activate the ability, we can not react to it or counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamiosoup Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Besides that, SWTOR has the sharpest graphics I've ever seen in an MMO. 10/10, you had me hooked for a while there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I actually LIKE the art direction... but with such simplistic graphics there is no reason that this game shouldn't run better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I actually LIKE the art direction... but with such simplistic graphics there is no reason that this game shouldn't run better. ^--- Hero Engine for you... it is a piece of prototype garbage that even CoH couldn't fix in years; I have no idea why BW would choose such a lame engine. CoH STILL has ability lag; I think the real problem is the engine, if so... we are basically f***** forever on this game. Edited January 19, 2012 by ExaltusKorran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GthcRvn Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I actually LIKE the art direction... but with such simplistic graphics there is no reason that this game shouldn't run better. I love everything about the game, except this. I cannot figure out why in the hell the game does not run better, FPS wise, with such simple graphics. I love the art style, but I get more FPS on Battlefield 3 with ultra settings than I do in SWTOR on medium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artruyas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I love everything about the game, except this. I cannot figure out why in the hell the game does not run better, FPS wise, with such simple graphics. I love the art style, but I get more FPS on Battlefield 3 with ultra settings than I do in SWTOR on medium Exactly my problem here. Experiencing memory leaks on random spots and at times I'd get 100fps on different places then suddenly drops to 10fps. Battlefield and Skyrim run way better on my computer than this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I love everything about the game, except this. I cannot figure out why in the hell the game does not run better, FPS wise, with such simple graphics. I love the art style, but I get more FPS on Battlefield 3 with ultra settings than I do in SWTOR on medium ^--- I play both BF3 and Skyrim on max settings and still get crappy FPS. Wasn't this Hero Engine chosen because it would run better on lower end machines? Pft, I can play Rift on max without an issue and that game looks 10X better, Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I love everything about the game, except this. I cannot figure out why in the hell the game does not run better, FPS wise, with such simple graphics. I love the art style, but I get more FPS on Battlefield 3 with ultra settings than I do in SWTOR on medium Exactly! BF3, Skyrim, WoW, Deus Ex... ANY decent looking modern game on the market and my rig destroys it. 60, 70, 80+ fps on max settings... In here? Randomly drops from 110+ fps to 10-20 fps... and for no reason I can figure out. It doesn't even have to be a highly populated area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artruyas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Exactly! BF3, Skyrim, WoW, Deus Ex... ANY decent looking modern game on the market and my rig destroys it. 60, 70, 80+ fps on max settings... In here? Randomly drops from 110+ fps to 10-20 fps... and for no reason I can figure out. It doesn't even have to be a highly populated area. I feel your pain ): Even if I switch the graphics to low it won't make a difference lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perram Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 ^--- Hero Engine for you... it is a piece of prototype garbage that even CoH couldn't fix in years; I have no idea why BW would choose such a lame engine. CoH STILL has ability lag; I think the real problem is the engine, if so... we are basically f***** forever on this game. That is my worry, as well. If this really is a core problem with the game engine itself... there is NO fix. They can't fix it without completely replacing the entire game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) That is my worry, as well. If this really is a core problem with the game engine itself... there is NO fix. They can't fix it without completely replacing the entire game! If they truly fixed it... I would french kiss a Bantha in a fan fiction using my real name. It was annoying in CoH and it is even more annoying to see the same problem in a game that was funded better. : / Edited January 19, 2012 by ExaltusKorran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahwinters Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That is my worry, as well. If this really is a core problem with the game engine itself... there is NO fix. They can't fix it without completely replacing the entire game! Hey, its not like there isn't a precedent for this... Original Everquest released all new player models and then a whole new graphics engine after about 2 years of being out. Now THERE was a company that actually cared about their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hey, its not like there isn't a precedent for this... Original Everquest released all new player models and then a whole new graphics engine after about 2 years of being out. Now THERE was a company that actually cared about their game. I agree, when EQ took that initiative I was impressed. Our hopes of seeing something similar in SWTOR will take years probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesTheName Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I've played to level 47 on one character and level 20 on others. Have no complaints with the game whatsoever. Enjoying the hell out of it. One of the most polished and bug-free releases of a game I have ever played in my 20 years of gaming. Well done BW, ignore this clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazzello Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Good post OP, Swtor issues in a nuttshell. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltusKorran Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I've played to level 47 on one character and level 20 on others. Have no complaints with the game whatsoever. Enjoying the hell out of it. One of the most polished and bug-free releases of a game I have ever played in my 20 years of gaming. Well done BW, ignore this clown. What exactly do you play? And might I add these problems by this "Clown" which was a completely unwanted comment... amplify when you hit 50 and when you start stacking defensive stats. Imagine... being stuck in a near infinite loop of defense animations to the point you can no longer react and the better your gear gets, the worse it gets. I might want to add... Bioware has admitted to these problems, so are you calling them clowns too? Edited January 19, 2012 by ExaltusKorran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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