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Dirty Fighting should be our ranged DPS spec


Eberion

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I wonder if there is a way that "Dirty Fighting" will be our ranged spec some day.

I love the shotgun and punch playstyle a lot, but it would be nice to be able to raid as ranged DPS (Yes, I know I could ve chosen Gunslinger).

There are just way to many melees in the raids I was part of.

So far it is not really possible to go on range, because you need the "Upper Hand"-Buff from "Blaster Whip".

 

What do you think about it, do you even want to be able to go on range?

Edited by Eberion
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i don't think scoundrels/operatives need or deserve a ranged spec. As it stands now they have a healing and close range dps. Granted the healing could use some loving but in the right hands its still can be amazing. Giving the AC a range tree would make going sniper/gunslinger pretty pointless considering the versatility. Even if the damage wasn't as good as a gunslinger just the simple fact that one AC can play healer, dps, and rdps would cause a huge forum war :p
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Maybe not a ranged spec, but at least a better way to generate UH for DF would be nice. Maybe off of dot crits or hemo via a spec'd skill.

 

I agree to that, maybe a 100% ranged tree would be too powerfull, but 10m is not that far from melee anyway, still you need to go melee range to get your UH.

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15 - 20m range for the scoundrel DF abilities wouldnt be that crazy youd still be out ranged by trooper/bh and gunslinger/sniper counterparts.

 

As i gunslinger myself i wouldnt mind that to much at all, that coupled with a way of gaining upperhand without pistol whip (through dots as someone mentioned earlier) would make it a decent spec.

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15 - 20m range for the scoundrel DF abilities wouldnt be that crazy youd still be out ranged by trooper/bh and gunslinger/sniper counterparts.

 

As i gunslinger myself i wouldnt mind that to much at all, that coupled with a way of gaining upperhand without pistol whip (through dots as someone mentioned earlier) would make it a decent spec.

 

Wounding shots does a LOT of damage. That's why it has a 9 second recast on gunslingers. If scoundrels were able to hit people with 2 of those in 2 GCD's from a 20m range the tears would drown the forum.

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It is a Melee toon!

 

Besides, if you spend your points right it is very easy to play this toon and never have to get closer than 10m

 

Let's think that through,

I start with "Shoot first" out of stealth, I place "Vital Shot" and "Shrap Bomb" and get pugnacity going for some reg.

Now I use "Hamorrhaging Blast" to get more damage out of my dot ticks.

The time to use "Wounding Shot" would be now, but I don't have an "Upper Hand"-Buff.

 

Maybe I made a mistake somewhere, but without melee range, you are loosing a lot of dmg or regeneration.

 

@ comieb You got me wrong, I don't want any of the 10m abilities to have more range, it is just about the UH buff that is needed for "Wounding Shot" that I can't acquire without melee range.

 

In my opinion there are way to many melees in this game anyway, even the vanguard if played as DD must use at least 1 melee skill.

Edited by Eberion
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Wounding shots does a LOT of damage. That's why it has a 9 second recast on gunslingers. If scoundrels were able to hit people with 2 of those in 2 GCD's from a 20m range the tears would drown the forum.

 

The thing is for Gunslingers is that its also a 30 energy cost. the 9 sec cd isnt really needed cos of how expensive the ability is especially when they only get extra energy from dot crits.

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Wounding shots does a LOT of damage. That's why it has a 9 second recast on gunslingers. If scoundrels were able to hit people with 2 of those in 2 GCD's from a 20m range the tears would drown the forum.

 

I don't really care about the PVP advantage, Scrapper is way superior in PVP anyway.

And I would really don't mind if wounding shot would get a large CD, as mentioned above, you could only do one per cycle anyway.

Edited by Eberion
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i don't think scoundrels/operatives need or deserve a ranged spec. As it stands now they have a healing and close range dps. Granted the healing could use some loving but in the right hands its still can be amazing. Giving the AC a range tree would make going sniper/gunslinger pretty pointless considering the versatility. Even if the damage wasn't as good as a gunslinger just the simple fact that one AC can play healer, dps, and rdps would cause a huge forum war :p

 

You pretty much fail to understand the PVE side of the equation. Scoundrels as scrappers for Flashpoints and Operations blow because they have to be at 4M always to do damage. Their interrupt is set at 10M again, which for boss fights that require Interrupts again cause issues when you have to kill ranged adds that attack 11M+ from the boss (mind you there are a lot of them in this game, making Scoundrel DPS effectively a horrible idea to take for Operations).

 

Now, if Dirty Fighting for Scoundrel was taken out to 30M including moving distraction to 30M, then Scoundrels would have the ability to DPS for Operations and Flashpoints. Of course, Dirty Fighting Scoundrels would need a way other than pistol whip to generate the upper hand buff at 30M.

 

I dropped my subscription after looking at how dicked up the scoundrel DPS tree was for Operations and Flashpoint. Melee DPS at 4M in this game is a huge draw on healers especially with the prevelance the designers took for AE Damage, see Bulwark as an example as turning melee DPS into heal sinks (you can avoid 3 of the 4 AE's but the 4th there is no way to avoid as melee DPS).

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Let's think that through,

I start with "Shoot first" out of stealth, I place "Vital Shot" and "Shrap Bomb" and get pugnacity going for some reg.

Now I use "Hamorrhaging Blast" to get more damage out of my dot ticks.

The time to use "Wounding Shot" would be now, but I don't have an "Upper Hand"-Buff.

 

Maybe I made a mistake somewhere, but without melee range, you are loosing a lot of dmg or regeneration.

 

@ comieb You got me wrong, I don't want any of the 10m abilities to have more range, it is just about the UH buff that is needed for "Wounding Shot" that I can't acquire without melee range.

 

In my opinion there are way to many melees in this game anyway, even the vanguard if played as DD must use at least 1 melee skill.

 

 

You can be all the way up the Dirty Fighting Tree and still be able to get Upper Hand w/o using blaster whip/shoot first. You can start a fight with pugnacity too. I'm not going to hold your hand but it seems like you haven't looked at the whole skill tree.

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I personally feel 30m may be a little to much range for Scoundrels. as it gives the Gunslinger/Sniper a very small advantage (5m) on range, at least with 20m they have the 15m to which to play with.

 

Granted i havent done any Operations but for FPs i usually fight (as a DF GS) at around 20m sure i can engage further away and do, but once the fight is going on i usually sit around 20m

Edited by Comieb
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You can be all the way up the Dirty Fighting Tree and still be able to get Upper Hand w/o using blaster whip/shoot first. You can start a fight with pugnacity too. I'm not going to hold your hand but it seems like you haven't looked at the whole skill tree.

 

Yeah because hard casting a 2s heal is always a good answer. :rolleyes:

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Yeah because hard casting a 2s heal is always a good answer. :rolleyes:

 

Pugnacity lasts 45 seconds. You don't have to do it in the middle of a fight if you don't want to. Once you don't have to use pug at the begining of a fight - or even start a fight with shoot first and upper hand already up, you'll see it is very easy get wounding shots off.

 

Casting a heal on yourself or an ally is totally fine if you're not being targeted and blaster whip isn't ready/you don't want to close in for melee. Really it is .5 seconds longer than the GCD - .5 seconds you'd probably spend closing to melee range anyway (if not longer)

 

If wounding shots had a 20 meter range people would dot people up/ 2 second heal twice and then burn people down from 20 meters away.

Edited by Vicid
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I want to see us at 10m. I don't want to see DF at 30m, but a 10m UH generating shot, and reasons to not Blaster Whip (shared CD with the shot probably) or Back Blast is all it needs to be a 10m spec. That's where I feel DF makes the most sense, and what I'm really hoping for.
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Well... considering Scrapper has a range of 4m and a grocery list of situational stipulations, and DF at least let's you work at 10m.... I'd say it IS our Ranged DPS class lol. It's not much... but you know... it's more than the "Melee" DPS class.
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I'm throwing in my vote for making Dirty Fighting the 10m range *shotgun-based* tree. Let Scrappers punch and bite and scratch (or whatever) to their heart's content, but I want the "boom shalock lock boom", baby. The shotgun is such wasted potential right now, imo. I'd settle for swapping Blaster Whip with "Shotgun Blast" and giving it a 10m range. Then have Wounding Shots use a shotgun animation for consistency. And hey presto, we're done.
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I want to see us at 10m. I don't want to see DF at 30m, but a 10m UH generating shot, and reasons to not Blaster Whip (shared CD with the shot probably) or Back Blast is all it needs to be a 10m spec. That's where I feel DF makes the most sense, and what I'm really hoping for.

 

Make Hemorraghing Blast grant Upper Hand for Scoundrels to compensate for the decreased range we get on it compared to Gunslingers. I think that would be enough to let us fight mostly at 10m, just occasionally diving inside 4m to plant a Dirty Kick-Blaster Whip combo before retreating again.

 

Of course, an ability that lets us get a speed boost when we actually need it instead of when we don't would also be nice. All the other melee classes have great range closers, I need a boost to get within 4m to use Dirty Kick, not after my target has been stunned already!

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I'm throwing in my vote for making Dirty Fighting the 10m range *shotgun-based* tree. Let Scrappers punch and bite and scratch (or whatever) to their heart's content, but I want the "boom shalock lock boom", baby. The shotgun is such wasted potential right now, imo. I'd settle for swapping Blaster Whip with "Shotgun Blast" and giving it a 10m range. Then have Wounding Shots use a shotgun animation for consistency. And hey presto, we're done.

 

Pulling out the shotty for Wounding shots 3x Booms would be amazing.

 

10m tho i think would be a little bit on the shortside as there are bosses that require you to be out of 10m range. 15 - 20m range would be better suited. its not to far like all the other ranged classes but gives you a little bit of leg room to work with for positioning etc.

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I like the dirty fighting tree in Ops and Flashpoints. Having the two bleeds is nice, especially 30m out from a boss/mob, I can kite much better. If I have to get out of range it is nice too. Even if I have to spam bolts the bleeds keep up some nice dmg in comparison. Having around 1400 dmg going out with my bolts each spam, taged along with 600 non crits, and around 1000+ crits with hemorraging blast up with my dots, provides me with a bit of freedom. I also like that back blast still does decent dmg when I have to get in close, and the increased blaster whip/quick shot dmg.

 

The biggest problem with the dirty fighting tree, is not having a way to generate upper hand besides blaster whip, and not having the 3% increased dmg on bleeding targets. A decrease in a few energy costs would be nice too.

 

The scoundrel/gunslinger/ops/sniper is weak in the regen department. All other classes can spam and mess up without going out of their resource, whereas the smugg and agent classes have to be very very careful.

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Yeah i think tying Upper Hand procs into Hemo blast is a good idea, make it read something along the lines of;

 

Any DoT crits on the target effected by Hemo blast generates 1 stack of Upper Hand, this effect cannot happen more than once per 3 seconds.

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