Update on Ilum Open World PvP issues

[Nangasaur]

since the range pew pew fests are in full swing. my question is this whats the point in doing pvp warzones?

10 warzones = 15k valour this takes about 2-3 hrs depending on how quik the queue is

 

2-3 hrs in ilum in a ops group sitting at central = 200k now you tell me whats the point in going into warzones if i can sit at central ilum getting almost 300% more valour in the same time

 

next question

why the hell dont we get our valour if were dead? this seriously impeads any reason for a melee player do anything other than sit at the back with protection on a healer or better yet what the hell is marauder ment to do? considering he has to over come 30 meters of range pew pew

 

next question

melee have been royally screwed ove r with this patch we either sit inthe pew pew raids hoping not be kicked for not doing anything other than standing at the back cos well we dont get valour while dead or running back even if we have tagged hit or done any dmg to anything. whats your plan to combat this and bring fair gaming and time spent to both rnaged and melee characters?

This will all change, don't worry.

 

I was watching one of the live feeds of an Empire guild farming the massive valor gain exploit on Ilum, and as they put it, "LAWL HAHAHA LOL! WE'RE GONNA MAKE ALL THE REPUBLIC QUIT BECAUSE OF THIS HAHAHAAHA! THEN IT WILL BE STAR WARS: THE DEAD REPUBLIC LAWL!"

 

*Cue entire ventrillo full of voices laughing hysterically, with a few high-pitched squeaks here and there*

 

/sigh

Edited January 20, 2012 by Nangasaur

[Brad-]

I was watching one of the live feeds of an Empire guild farming the massive valor gain exploit on Ilum, and as they put it, "LAWL HAHAHA LOL! WE'RE GONNA MAKE ALL THE REPUBLIC QUIT BECAUSE OF THIS HAHAHAAHA! THEN IT WILL BE STAR WARS: THE DEAD REPUBLIC LAWL!"

 

And yet ... they do nothing.

[DarthKhaos]

I was waiting for someone to say this!

 

I've been laughing HARD. If I was level 50 and 20+ people were camping my spawn point after the 2nd death I'm staying dead. No more free valor for them off my head. But they didn't and are crying for an exploit.

 

Granted Empire exercised bad form spawn camping but when I talk about these kind of things previously on the forums you get people shouting roll on a PvE server care bear or some other type of nonsense like that.

 

NOW they're crying exploit. Where's the pro PvP server players now? Where's the "That's what you get for rolling on a PvP server." comments?

 

Forums are sooo funny.

 

You are pretentious.

I am also right.

[Xibalva]

Btw, you want some balance between factions, remove hutball vs the same faction so the dominant faction has to w8 true queues then the true pvpers would have to think if they just simply wanna be the red faction as in any faction game or play pvp. Cos everyone knows that ppl prefer the red faction in every mmo (just so they can say "Yay, I'm totally ******").

[salom]

In my eyes BW has until D3 to get this sh*t fixed, or they will not be seeing me as a continued member

 

Ive said it once and Ill say it again. Diablo 3 will absolutely destroy this game. Ranked pvp, real money auction house, hardcore hell runs. On a 360. And they charge $15.00 a month for this? Lolz...

Edited January 20, 2012 by salom

[Plexas]

Ive said it once and Ill say it again. Diablo 3 will absolutely destroy this game. Ranked pvp, real money auction house, hardcore hell runs. On a 360. And they charge $15.00 a month for this? Lolz...

 

 

being on a console will most likely destroy what diablo once was. consoles = cancer of gaming.

[Bregah]

Btw, you want some balance between factions, remove hutball vs the same faction so the dominant faction has to w8 true queues then the true pvpers would have to think if they just simply wanna be the red faction as in any faction game or play pvp. Cos everyone knows that ppl prefer the red faction in every mmo (just so they can say "Yay, I'm totally ******").

 

I have preferred the red faction since Warcraft 1.

 

The first time I saw the tileset of Alliance buildings, I simply thought that was the ugliest design I'd ever seen, and chose Orcs whenever I could.

 

As WoW used the same graphic design, and ugly human male models as well (plus the fact that I really think Dwarves are just awful looking in every game I've seen them in), Horde was a no-brainer.

 

Did you SEE the graphics in Warhammer for Order? Specifically the Dwarves and Elves? That's a very good lesson in how to make an uninteresting faction look as dull as possible.

 

EQ 2 - who's more interesting - Lucan or Antonia?

 

As for SWTOR - I don't know about anyone else - but while I LOVE lightsaber combat in the Star Wars movies, I simply can't think of a single interesting, personality-wise, Jedi in any of the movies, except for perhaps Yoda. Luke was interesting (although whiny) until the moment he "became a true Jedi". Mace Windu - dull as can be.

 

True, Star Wars is all about over-the-top character arch-types, but I don't really want to be playing (or playing through the story of) extreme versions of the D&D Lawful Good Paladins. I'd prefer not playing extreme versions of Chaotic Evil, but given the choice of the two, it's a no brainer.

 

Plus the Sith simply look cooler in their armor.

 

Years, as well as game after game, show that I'm in the majority, yet developers keep simply NOT TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT. And seem baffled when there's faction imbalance. Why are these developers still employed as developers?

[Almghty_gir]

Very good post but I do see a major problem: no PvP stats or gear is pretty much a non-starter. The PvPers in this community are largely not going to be really hardcore in PvP. Instead you'll have a lot more casual PvPers or PvEers who see PvP rank and gear grinding as simply another thing to do in the game, not because they love PvP. Furthermore, Bioware is counting on PvP to really tip the balance in terms of player occupied time vs development time. Without it they can't possibly meet the demand.

 

So unfortunatrly I don't really see that as being an option.

 

thanks for the input. by pvp stats i meant expertise and expertise only, all the other stats on the gear would remain the same, but pve gear would have a 5% stat debuff applied in pvp (all forms). therefor ensuring that pve gear remains the best thing to use for pve, but that it isn't overpowered in pvp, it also removes the problem we have now, where expertise becomes an "iwin" stat in pvp generally, regardless of the pve/pvp argument.

[Hellranil]

up this thread for the future.

[Sovietik]

Why no rollback ? Simple

 

- No Rollback : Rep pissed => 30% of players - They're ****ed up anyway

 

- Rollback : Imp pissed => 70% of players - We can't loose this much accounts !

 

 

Easy to figure out...

[Hellranil]

Why no rollback ? Simple

 

- No Rollback : Rep pissed => 30% of players - They're ****ed up anyway

 

- Rollback : Imp pissed => 70% of players - We can't loose this much accounts !

 

 

Easy to figure out...

 

the problem is no rep, No empire,

 

and never 100 % empire will leave

 

Btw its too late, games end tonight for me.

[Hellranil]

First page thx

[Almghty_gir]

keeping this in sight of everyone:

 

this is a selection of ideas that both i and others have come up with that could help with the problems that exist in the game. they are by no means a "one tool fixes everything", and certainly they are just a starting point to go on.

 

so let's start with the current problems, some are fixable, others aren't...

1. this is a two faction game - this cannot be fixed, it's way too late to change it, and it will be there forever... if you don't like that, there are other games that are different. find them.
   
2. there are population imbalances - due to being a two faction game, this will always be apparent, whether the difference is large or small depends largely on the playerbase but there are things Bioware can do to remedy it somewhat.
   
3. faction pride - because you can roll both factions on the same server, the majority of players will feel very little pride in their own faction, there is no ownership or accountability. if you don't like how things are going... just alt on the other faction for a while! rather than actually try to push the rest of your faction to rally together.
   
4. the powerful get more powerful - currently due to game mechanics, the dominant faction has an easier time becoming more powerful, this has the knock on effect of making the underdog side feel even less inclined to compete... why compete when you're almost certain to lose, right?
   
5. pvp stats - a controvertial issue to be sure, many people feel it's necessary, many feel the opposite, we can explore it but it's doubtful that there will ever be a solution that everybody likes. sometimes the minority might have to tip it's head to the majority.
   
6. vertical progression - intrinsically tied into MMO's nowadays, especially ones that heavily involve pve content, is vertical progression... this is due to the mindset of most players that they simply "want bigger numbers". this is something that is quite possibly the biggest problem in PVP in any game, and always will be.
   

 

so let's tackle each issue one at a time, make some sense of it, and see what we can do to potentially solve the issue.

 

1. two faction game.

 

As i stated above, this will not change, it's too late to even think about it, sorry... however it is heavily tied into...

 

2. population imbalance.

 

Because this is a two faction game, one side will invariably outnumber the other. there are a few things that the developer can do to remedy the issue, such as imposing hard-caps on server factions, giving bonuses to the underdog faction, give penalties to the overpopulated faction, imposing instance limits per faction. but ultimately it all comes down to the players choice. regardless of anything the developer does, it's the player who makes the choice to roll on either faction.

 

3. cross faction players.

 

the ability to roll both factions on the same server is the most detrimental thing in any pvp game. it promotes "spying", and it also dissolves any form of "faction pride" that could ever have existed. it results in a fractured community of players who neither trust each other, or even in some cases want to even talk to each other. it makes organising the underdog realm very difficult as any potential gathering could be leaked to the dominating faction with disasterous results.

 

4. the great snowball.

 

this actually ties three things in together, each one is bad on it's own but when combined they make for a snowball that just gets bigger and bigger until it becomes unmanageable. it's sad to say that we're almost at that point already! but what are those three things?

• pvp stats
  
• vertical progression
  
• imbalanced populations
  

 

we've already covered population imbalance to a degree, but in this context it's important to note that due to current game mechanics, the overpopulated realm is just reaping huge rewards with little penalty. they're able to capture and hold all the objectives, whilst simultaniously dominate the underdog faction due to pure numbers, on top of all this, when (for example) 40 people "tag" a single enemy combatant, when that person dies all 40 people get the same reward as if only one person had made the kill... this is unacceptable by ALL standards. combine this with vertical progression, and not only do the dominant faction have an easier time getting higher tiered gear, but when they get there they become more powerful, making them not only harder to kill but also making it easier to kill the underdogs. and to top it all off, there's a pvp stat involved... one of the worst things to grace mmo's everywhere has been addopted here, and what it means now, is that because higher tiered gear has higher base stats, AND a higher allotment of pvp stats, the dominating realm is well and truly on its way to being unbeatable. when "new 50's" come into the fold, there really will be no place for them, and no means for them to challenge the overpopulated side.

 

But what can we do about allof this? nothing, it's in Biowares hands... and god i hope they can fix it. I'm sure they have ideas of their own, but then i'm also sure they thought the ideas they've already tried were good ones. disregarding the fact, of course, that those ideas both tried and failed in other games...

 

So, here are a few suggestions that might make BioWares life easier. a couple of things they could do to make things more enjoyable for players and make the game a better place all round.

 

1. Heavily incentivise the underdog faction by doing the following:

• when the serverwide population is imbalanced by 1.5:1 or greater, grant a +100% valor bonus SERVER WIDE to the underdog faction.
  
• when the instance population is imbalanced by 1.25:1 or greater, grant a 25% valor bonus which scales up to 400% when the population imbalance reaches 4:1.
  
• make valor per kill, and the bonus attached to it, become divided by the amount of players involved in the kill. so rather than 40 players gaining (20 valor + 180 valor bonus) for killing a single player, they would instead recieve (1 valor + 5 valor bonus) each. this will round UP to the nearest whole number.
  

 

this will grant a NON stat oriented incentive for the underdogs to get out there and fight. it will mean that in the absolute worst case scenario of being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, the underdog will recieve the same valor per kill than the dominating faction will, even if the dominating faction controls all the objectives. it will also promote the idea that you are better off roaming in small groups looking for good even fights, than you are blobbing up in an almighty zerg, since you will gian less valor per kill as a zerg.

 

2. remove pvp stats from the game immediately, and do the following for a patch in the near future:

• tag Tionese, Columi, and Rakata gear, so that as soon as they enter a warzone, or initiate pvp, they recieve a 5% debuff to all stats. this would work similarly to how a player gets tagged with a trauma debuff when fighting, and the debuff vanishes when combat ends.
  

 

i realise many people see pvp stats as a way for pvp players to compete with pve players who have better stats on their gear due to the progression of pve gear. i get that, it's a reasonable argument. but it's been dealt with in completely the wrong way. what it's ended up doing is alienating any and all players who don't have the gear now, or in future, who are going to be faced up against high level players, probably on a dominant side, and it just all mounts up to having too much work to do, for too little gain.

 

there is still "progression" for all of those who wish to have it. the pvp gear still has tiers of stats, so you still get more numbers. but you will still struggle to complete high end pve content due to having lower stats than the pve sets. while at the same time, the pve gear will be great for pve, but will be on-par with the pvp sets, so there is no unfair advantage in that regard.

 

due to the way the bolster system works in warzones, this would also allow them to remove the 50 bracket, decreasing queue times to a globally accepted level, with minimal problems (after all, without expertise, there's little difference between fighting a 49 or a 50 with the bolster system as it averages out stats, moving high stats down where needed).

 

thanks for reading, i hope someone somewhere takes some notice.

cheers.

[Seraphical]

I have dabbled in database programming myself for the U.S. Army, and from my own personal experience on that end in making real-time, sweeping changes based on any number of criteria I searched for, as my databases were tailored to, was quite easy.

 

I can only imagine how a massive scale database project with millions and millions of dollars invested in it with professional educated database programmers would make this possible in their sleep, since I could see how simple it is to do as an amateur.

 

Spoken like someone who dabbled.

 

I work for a company with the databases you describe. If you think your database exists in a bubble you are wrong.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Seraphical

[xhaiquan]

Why no rollback ? Simple

 

- No Rollback : Rep pissed => 30% of players - They're ****ed up anyway

 

- Rollback : Imp pissed => 70% of players - We can't loose this much accounts !

 

 

Easy to figure out...

 

bingo!

[Heartlis]

no rollback = no resub

 

I played too much WoW to deal with another mmo that just brushes off pvp concerns.

[BegaTasty]

i can confirm a majority of my servers PvP Pop is gone, my entire guild has pulled out and is now in the hunt for a new MMO to PvP it up in.

 

unless there is a change 1.1 was a slap in the face for those who earned the title battle master. this little patch today solved nothing all it means is the base camp is a few feet further back. a organised op group is nothing to a zerg.

 

i loved this game so much, and i don't want to go but this was so badly done and they have proven they don't want to listen to the community.

 

this is tabularasa all over agen.

 

good luck to all those who stay, i might come back in the future if BW pulls there heads out of EA's ***

 

Thats the trouble mate none earned the pvp gear, it was given to you.(not you personally, you in general)

BG farming is a mix of account sharing (to keep your char going 24/7)

Trading wins n losses between premades,afk

Sitting in corner,afk

Botting

Speed hacking.

 

Only people who would ever actually "earn" progression are the world pvpers, (no not illum thats a battleground). the guys who go exploring an questing while killing any reds they find.

 

Those are pretty much only ones would ever earn what they had.(except we dont get anything)...

[Rippah_au]

Unsubbed today.

 

Pathetic weak as p!ss response from the devs.

[alienstalker]

Why did you lower population caps that was a stupid idea. The game is lifeless already don't make it anymore lifeless.

[BegaTasty]

Why did you lower population caps that was a stupid idea. The game is lifeless already don't make it anymore lifeless.

 

careful saying that, the more....zealot like here will abuse you unending for saying that. But I agree with you, there is no life in the world as it is.

[Twilight_Rain]

FACT: This kind of thing has happened before in other MMOs.

 

FACT: Cry as you might, and whether the devs hear you or not... there are people above their paygrades that perform risk analytics... cost vs benefit metrics... so they will deliver the solution that has minimal cost yet keep just enough players to keep the product profitable.

 

FACT: Because of the above reason, they will NOT endeavor to keep ALL players. The number crunching says they CAN afford to lose some of you... and still be in the "green" zone in terms of profit.

 

FACT: Just like Netflix resolved to lose some subs, as long as they keep enough to keep it moving in the direction they want and remain profitable... that's ok. There are ACCEPTABLE LOSSES in this industry.

 

FACT: This game is largely a PvE game. This means the greater portion of player are here for PvE... and PvP players, while many, make up the smaller half of the populace. And the affected players (Republic), make up the smaller portion of that smaller faction.

 

 

Having said that... I say we just wait for GW2. Let their metrics people have their numbers... I have better things to spend my money on. I vote with my wallet, how about you guys?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Twilight_Rain

[Mabusa]

If i dont see ALL and i mean ALL Ilum exploiters banned for months ill be quitting SWOR at there is no point of continuing to play this... "game"

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez

Hi everyone,

 

I just wanted to be clear and let you all know that we’re definitely aware of individuals who took extreme advantage of this situation and we will be carefully evaluating and taking action as necessary.

[Hoooooooar]

FACT: This kind of thing has happened before in other MMOs.

 

FACT: Cry as you might, and whether the devs hear you or not... there are people above their paygrades that perform risk analytics... cost vs benefit metrics... so they will deliver the solution that has minimal cost yet keep just enough players to keep the product profitable.

 

FACT: Because of the above reason, they will NOT endeavor to keep ALL players. The number crunching says they CAN afford to lose some of you... and still be in the "green" zone in terms of profit.

 

FACT: Just like Netflix resolved to lose some subs, as long as they keep enough to keep it moving in the direction they want and remain profitable... that's ok. There are ACCEPTABLE LOSSES in this industry.

 

FACT: This game is largely a PvE game. This means the greater portion of player are here for PvE... and PvP players, while many, make up the smaller half of the populace. And the affected players (Republic), make up the smaller portion of that smaller faction.

 

 

Having said that... I say we just wait for GW2. Let their metrics people have their numbers... I have better things to spend my money on. I vote with my wallet, how about you guys?

 

I don't believe the PVE servers all being empty and the PVP servers all being full support your facts.

[Twilight_Rain]

That's funny because when I arrange the servers by population and putting "heavy" at the top, only 22 of them are pvp, and about 5 of those have "RP-PVP" on them... the rest are PvE or pure RP. I think you just posted that without really looking first.

 

Besides, if you look at every MMO that isn't pure pvp-centric... there's always more raiders than there are pvp players once the game has had time to simmer.

 

But I digress from continuing THAT conversation because it's obvious you utterly missed the point.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Twilight_Rain

[Ashanor]

That's funny because when I arrange the servers by population and putting "heavy" at the top, only 22 of them are pvp, and about 5 of those have "RP-PVP" on them... the rest are PvE or pure RP. I think you just posted that without really looking first.

 

Besides, if you look at every MMO that isn't pure pvp-centric... there's always more raiders than there are pvp players once the game has had time to simmer.

 

But I digress from continuing THAT conversation because it's obvious you utterly missed the point.

 

Well, according to WoW last expansion, 40% of the playerbase plays Battlegrounds on a regular basis and 20% play arena on a regular basis. They didn't release numbers on raiding, but I doubt they are much higher than 40%.