Crohadan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 what are you on crack, SWG and WoW are 2 of the most furthest apart MMOs going. SWG was unbeleivably innovative, and was a brilliant design, if only they had the same budget as SWToR. WoW was hardly innovative at all, and just sought to make the absolute best game possible with the best features and design possible. WoW was a rousing success, SWG failed miserably due to SOE's contant blunders. I know if they had more funding and more competent people, SWG could have been the giant that WoW is. this is so true its not even funny. if you were an nge/pre cu guy the game was awesome. if you came in late the game was still fun but you missed out on both great combat and great charachter systems. never mind the crafting in that game....great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrar Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I feel one of the major frustrations of the individuals on these boards is the lack of interaction / communication between devs and the community. When someone brings up a problem like FPS issues and the engine in general... instead of getting a wink or nod as to it being a "known issue" that's on the "to do" list... there's for all intents and purposes a "blackout." That's certainly not helping matters. BW has had frustratingly little contact with anyone that doesn't get a paycheck from EA or work in games related media. They even refused, generally speaking, to communicate with the beta community. Just ridiculous. Their community outreach is worse than pathetic. There are F2P games out there with radically better community outreach. I think we're seeing the monolithic EA effect (IE "too big to care") in conjunction with the chip on the shoulder BW effect (IE "we're Bioware, you should feel privileged to even play our game")... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crohadan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If EAware had more competent people and not blowhards like James Ohlen who bury their head in the sand while telling themselves "everythng is great", SWToR could have been the giant WoW is. i dunno if he is burrying his head in the sand. but i will say that its fairley obvious he hasnt played his product as much as the rest of us. his job is to put on positive spins in every interview, and he does it well. much like a politician... everything is great! nevermind the raging fire behind me and the firefighters are on strike because i screwed their bargining! nothing to see here move along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrar Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 what are you on crack, SWG and WoW are 2 of the most furthest apart MMOs going. SWG was unbeleivably innovative, and was a brilliant design, if only they had the same budget as SWToR. WoW was hardly innovative at all, and just sought to make the absolute best game possible with the best features and design possible. WoW was a rousing success, SWG failed miserably due to SOE's contant blunders. I know if they had more funding and more competent people, SWG could have been the giant that WoW is. I think he was highling the absurdity of Ohlen's assertion that TOR is more innovative than other MMOs, and also Ohlen's very strange and untrue statement that the FPS genre has seen no innovation in "20 years" (IE Ohlen was basically saying BF3 = Doom). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 op: on the premise of this game needing drastic improvement in all areas i agreew with you 100%. a lot of us dont want this to be wow 2.0 though. i understand that many do and thats fine. what i dont understand is why people on these forums try and push so ahrd for mods and add ons when things like damage meters, agro meters, ToT, and so on force devs to scale up battles because then people say they are too easy. before we start screaming for all the bells and whistles, lets make sure the ui works and is customizable. as a healer the only thing i really need right now is a way to adjust the size of debuff icons both for myself and for raid members. those darn things are so small its near impossible to see whos getting debuffed and who isnt. Because until players have access to damage meters and the like, the're basically playing blind. You press the buttons and you hope that the combination does enough damage to kill the boss, but you don't know. You can make an educated guess, but that's all it will be. It affects more than rotations too. Look at stat weights. Nobody has any idea how to value their secondary stats. In theory, surge should be weaker than power at low levels of crit, and stronger than power at high levels of crit, but until we can get some actual tools to experiment we have no way to tell where that line is. Again, the only choice we have is to make a guess and hope for the best. Do you know what will kill the difficulty of a game even faster than add-ons. A game that has to be balanced around players using a hodgepodge of stats and random damage rotations because nobody can get an accurate reading of what's actually happening during a fight. More than that though, specifically on the subject of add-ons, is that they personalize the game for the player. Look at any 10 endgame WoW players and you'll find 10 different UIs, each tailor made for their user's specific preferences. Add-ons are the difference between SWTOR being a game and SWTOR being your game. And beyond even that, once you allow add-ons, you've just hired a staff of thousands to your development team. A staff that can build, test, and distribute new features hundreds of times faster, and does it all for free. WoW didn't become as polished as it is on its own. Countless features, both big and small, were gradually introduced to the game because Blizzard could monitor which add-ons were in highest demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That's certainly not helping matters. BW has had frustratingly little contact with anyone that doesn't get a paycheck from EA or work in games related media. They even refused, generally speaking, to communicate with the beta community. Just ridiculous. Their community outreach is worse than pathetic. There are F2P games out there with radically better community outreach. I think we're seeing the monolithic EA effect (IE "too big to care") in conjunction with the chip on the shoulder BW effect (IE "we're Bioware, you should feel privileged to even play our game")... Like when testers got frustrated and asked what the point of even reporting bugs was, George Zoeller was happy to inform us it didn't matter if we reported bugs or not, all they needed were our metrics and regardless of what our opinions/complaints were, EAware were the only ones who decided what was good, what was bad. Man, I wish the beta forums weren't wiped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topster Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 OPs message TL:DR This game isnt innovative because it doesnt have old features. Cause that makes sense. It isn't innovative because it doesn't have old features that THIS GAME DESPERATELY NEEDS And frankly it has done nothing innovative anyway. They swapped out a quest window for a cutscene. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobarstep Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 1. It's not an assumption, there were posts about this earlier today in General Discussion. 2. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs. 3. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs. 4. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs. 5. Too slow. Type faster. They've already addressed this and are looking into it. 6. It does everything I need it to do. Maybe you're using it wrong? 7. But it works, and people are grouping often. Argument fails. 8. Never tried to run away from one of my targets, sorry, but good luck with your strategery. And machinima producers can cope in other ways, for instance, with creativity and an imagination. I can live without addons for the most part, but macros are needed badly. And I'm not talking about Rift's waterfall macros that allow one-button to control 10 things (though even those really aren't that bad). I just want something like /cast [healing ability] target=focus that can be made into a button and put on an action bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jastoness Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Indeed, and mouseovers please And ops frames that update as fast as the bar above my target's head. And target of target please, when healing in pvp, it would be so damn good to know who to hot/shield, and which target to jolt at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantlegacy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you want to be recognized for "raising the bar," I suggest you first meet it. This is all that needs to be said. BW did alot of new things with SWTOR but these new things need to be added to the tried and true, not replacing them. I know people are sick to death of the comparisons between SWTOR and WoW but lets be honest here, many BIG mmos have lived and died under WoWs reign, each of them tried to bring something unique to the table and each of them failed to meet the standard set by WoW. I know many people will say "WoW isn't the be all and end all of mmos" but you know what.... it kind of is.... Learn from them! They know what they're doing and for god sake listen to the community.... we've been around a long time as well and we know what we want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 After reading it all I can say is just wow. Anyway here is your innovation The absence of basic futures and this. http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Secondly... innovation is great, but not when it comes at the expense of the basics. Yes, you've done some spectacular things for making an engaging leveling experience that appeals to a wide range of playstyles all while telling a very cinematic story. But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. My mouse and keyboard interface works in this game. The UI, while not very good (franky bad) is there. Those are the basics. What you are talking about are wow antics and by no means the "standard in the industry" people keep insisting they are. I have never played an MMO with a "combat log", and I've played a whole load of them. Since you've never played any without them, I'm guessing all you've played is wow and/or wow clones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astron_ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 After reading it all I can say is just wow. Anyway here is your innovation The absence of basic futures and this. http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg Yes, James Ohlen must be the worst "creative" director in the history of MMO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmalygris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Look, while I'm far from defending the many faults this game launch had, the big one being that IT WASN'T FINISHED, I actually believe that it's innovative. The game handles group questing flawlessly. They really figured out how to meld single player RPG story with an MMO world. The game engine itself might be a poorly optimized terror, but the phasing and grouping technology is superb. They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. They pushed the envelope, and that's innovation. Agreed.. Personally I think its the best balanced game I have ever played..Class balancing (excepting crew skill junk) is very good. Secondly, you all act like Wow, EQ, DAoC, etc were born like Venus from a shell, pefect in every way. I beta'd those game, they were a bloody mess for almost a month after release and longer. I think mal Edited January 18, 2012 by pmalygris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortezu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) remove this reply please thank you Edited November 22, 2015 by Mortezu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallensouls Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Actually I am glad Macros, addons and DPS meters got left out. Addons are a wow only thing thats a not needed ina MMO, Macros just turn a game into one button playing and its stupid, the game takes no skill then to play, and DPS meters seriously you need a meter to tell you if your doing enough damage to kill the boss in a raid? If you need a DPS meter your skilless and I dont want you in my raid. As far as a combat log the OP got that right even tho he Nerd raged, thats needed to see what hit you and does tell you the DPS you do FYI. Innovative yea the NPCs all talk and the game asthetics are awesome if you look around they did a great job of making you feel like your in the star wars world. Im sorry the lvl 50's rushed to the end game and are crying for more to do, heres a new idea roll a new character. There are always those #$#%#% who rush to the end game and say Ive got nothing to do QQ. What you think the world doesnt have a end? you think quests go on forever? Not in any MMO in the real world, maybe in your fantasies. Alot of you need to grow up. OH BTW THERE IS A LFGROUP TOOL STOP SAYING THEY NEED A LFGROUP TOOL THERE IS ONE LEARN TO PLAY>. Edited January 18, 2012 by Fallensouls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The SOLUTION is to say NO to this nonsense, cancel your subscription, and come back in 3-6 months when the game is ready to go. There is no reason we should be PAYING to BETA TEST. Come back when the game is ready to go and maybe we'll have fun instead of angst every day. There's so much wrong with this game, they never should have launched. But then again, if you're familiar with EA, you know this is their modus operandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruEthera Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Innovative yea the NPCs all talk and the game asthetics are awesome if you look around they did a great job of making you feel like your in the star wars world. Im sorry the lvl 50's rushed to the end game and are crying for more to do, heres a new idea roll a new character. There are always those #$#%#% who rush to the end game and say Ive got nothing to do QQ. What you think the world doesnt have a end? you think quests go on forever? Not in any MMO in the real world, maybe in your fantasies. Alot of you need to grow up. OH BTW THERE IS A LFGROUP TOOL STOP SAYING THEY NEED A LFGROUP TOOL THERE IS ONE LEARN TO PLAY>. Ok.. dont even know where to start... I didnt rush to my 50.. I just had free days to play. I did as you said, rolled another char. Guess what, their "omg inovative voice over" was "baaah, do i realy need to hear all that again??" Sorry mate, besides class quest all other quests on the same side is same (besides starting plannet). And that is damn sad... So lets take this "biggest" innovation and money spender out of the equation (this is NOT a single player, this is a sub game, which besides leveling has to be focused on end game) due to LONG paying customers passed it in a month at slowest and what do we get? we get stuff like "omg, been in this instace 10 times, know the dialogs by heart and i still have to watch them due to one groupie seing it for the first time" time wasters, not to mention that I literraly want to kill person who is responsible for "Nice to see you again master, I just repainted your quarters, its just the same as old but new!!" robot annoying the **** out of me. I spend more time playing this game mute then not.. And lets not go into pvp and the bug area. As the person who is in his mid 40, having family but still keeping up with gaming (helps me relax and focus and think over ideas) I find it amusing when you hitting someone for a minute just to see that he ports somewhere, or see in huttball ball handler fall down, you jump and then see that he is still top (yes alone, no no charge no pull no nothing) just due to desync error i never get in other games (i do have fiber optics at home and never had any issues like that with any other software). And when you DO commit your 15 minutes and lose only to gliches like that (yes you could have stopped him) then I realy dont say the praise words towards bioware. Noone was more excited while waiting for this game. I even bought 2 copies (for me and wife). But now 1 still unopened, as my wife chooses not to play at all then to play this bug fiesta. Now lets start with the CC fiesta that bioware calls "competetive gaming and end level pvp". Someone said classes are well balanced? Well yeah, if you dont like variation and build your marauder ONLY rage, due to his total incompetence in other fields. Lets speak about 4 forms of cc on one class and 1 form of cc on marauder class (when he cant even move if he cc;ied). And thats a melee character, with same armor and less life than ranged ones.... I could continue with assasins, i could continue with other classes (Atm have 3 chars who are 50 of those and talk to guildies who have others). This was most anticipated game I have been waiting for, but now I understand that its a time waster untill Diablo 3 shows up (before I was dead sure I will play swtor and not d3, but now.. meh.. good luck swtor! but without me). Time to wake up. 2 Bioware: Hire 5 gamers team, who are GAMERS first and everything else later, and LISTEN to them. Not QQ'ers, not "me want so do it" but GAMERS who spent their life playing. Thats your most loyal customer base, thats who you have to listen to on :priorities, bugfixes, innovations, stuff to see, content. Bah me is sad.. So Very Very Sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucegore Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-12-bioware-swtor-post-mortem-its-more-innovative-than-an-fps But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. None of this is needed. UI mods and Macros are for Bads. Edited January 18, 2012 by Trucegore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 None of this is needed. UI mods and Macros are for Bads. Every single endgame raider on Earth disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucegore Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Every single endgame raider on Earth disagrees with you. They are crutches. Its also cute how people think endgame raiders matter. Edited January 18, 2012 by Trucegore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinrain Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It's interviews like this that confirms to me that developers these days aren't gamers and if they are, they're probable in their 40's and do not represent us. They are completely disconnected from the gaming community and have no idea how to make a mmo...I mean for goodness sake you guys have missed the BASICS of any MMO, the most simple things that we all take for granted, things that are present in all of the other mmo's out there! I'm in my fourties and am a gamer, so are the vast majority of my friends. So I think the Developers are pretty representative of gamers. The things the OP is complaining about are in most part preferrences rather than necessities. Macros and configurable UIs for instance. As for the LFG tool, well heaven forbid you should actually have to talk to someone. The two things that are different are that us 40 somethings don't waste our time bleating about how the crutches MMO players have had to use over the last few years aren't in this game. The second is that we don't expect the world to revolve around our personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trucegore Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Actually I am glad Macros, addons and DPS meters got left out. Addons are a wow only thing thats a not needed ina MMO, Macros just turn a game into one button playing and its stupid, the game takes no skill then to play, and DPS meters seriously you need a meter to tell you if your doing enough damage to kill the boss in a raid? If you need a DPS meter your skilless and I dont want you in my raid. As far as a combat log the OP got that right even tho he Nerd raged, thats needed to see what hit you and does tell you the DPS you do FYI. Innovative yea the NPCs all talk and the game asthetics are awesome if you look around they did a great job of making you feel like your in the star wars world. Im sorry the lvl 50's rushed to the end game and are crying for more to do, heres a new idea roll a new character. There are always those #$#%#% who rush to the end game and say Ive got nothing to do QQ. What you think the world doesnt have a end? you think quests go on forever? Not in any MMO in the real world, maybe in your fantasies. Alot of you need to grow up. OH BTW THERE IS A LFGROUP TOOL STOP SAYING THEY NEED A LFGROUP TOOL THERE IS ONE LEARN TO PLAY>. This guy gets my vote. This game does NOT need add-ons, macros or DPS meters. Oh, and Kinrain? Spot on, man. Way to tell 'em! Edited January 18, 2012 by TheSwamper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowflyingmeat Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I totally agree, James Ohlen needs to stop with this PR and have "Real talk" with the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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