BadgeredMushroom Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Allow me to TL;DR this thread: To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Additionally, if those features are not as polished and as robust as the mature game's feature, then the new game is terrible. The sense of entitlement is thick with these people. This thread is dumb. If you like the game, play. If you don't, leave. If you're a mouthbreathing fatbeard who must win irrelevant arguments on the internet, post. If you happen to mean the features that Rift launched with, then yes. I also expect a vehicle I purchase in 2012 to have at bare minimum the features of a similar vehicle released in the same model year (or previous model year). I don't expect a vehicle in 2012 to be missing basics like a speedometer or clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) To be worth the time of most of these posters, all brand new MMORPGs must have all the features at launch that a mature, highly-iterated upon MMORPG has after nearly a decade of live game enhancements. Sort of like how car buyers expect the 2012 model car to have all the features that other 2012 cars have? Same with TV buyers, computer buyers, and general consumers of most products. What you claim to be 'self entitlement', is called customer expectation in the world outside this little bubble of a forum. Customers expect new products to be just as good as current product, and usually a little better. WoW did not start as 'WoW 1998' (like EQ had started when it first appeared). It did not have to take 'years' to be just as good as 'EQ'. WoW took EQ 2003, and improved upon it to build WoW 2004. Wow did, exactly what people are saying the expected from TOR. Edited January 18, 2012 by Loekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thargrim Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This is WarHammer Online's questing system with updated graphics. It is not new. Barely updated graphics, barely. Plus WAR runs 3 times as good on computers as this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnetikjakhammer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you happen to mean the features that Rift launched with, then yes. I also expect a vehicle I purchase in 2012 to have at bare minimum the features of a similar vehicle released in the same model year (or previous model year). I don't expect a vehicle in 2012 to be missing basics like a speedometer or clock. hahahahahahahaha! QFT!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarwaters Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 That's because they do feel entitled. They've gotten used to being the "big boys" and have allowed themselves to slack simply because "We're Bioware, they'll buy it no matter what!". Another company with that attitude recently got a huge attitude adjustment from their customers. Square-Enix. Bioware used to be at the top of my list, but they've fallen to the middle of the pack. I cannot overlook the mediocrity of this game and the absolutely appallingly awful Dragon Age 2. Rockstar and Bethesda have moved up to the front of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bioware used to be at the top of my list, but they've fallen to the middle of the pack. I cannot overlook the mediocrity of this game and the absolutely appallingly awful Dragon Age 2. Rockstar and Bethesda have moved up to the front of the list. I think DA2 and TOR do indicate a decline for BW. They appear to have replaced quality, with 'short cuts' and resting on their past laurels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosedog Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you happen to mean the features that Rift launched with, then yes. I also expect a vehicle I purchase in 2012 to have at bare minimum the features of a similar vehicle released in the same model year (or previous model year). I don't expect a vehicle in 2012 to be missing basics like a speedometer or clock. Quoting for truth and great justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulofice Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The "basics" everyone claims are missing are not "basics", they're fluff. They're not necessary to run an MMO, nor are they necessary to do well in said MMO.[/quote you are right! THERE JUST NECESSARY TO NOT PISS OFF THE PLAYER BASE:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The more this Ohlen guy flaps his mouth, the less I like him and his game. He really should talk less and innovate more. Too harsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astron_ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The more this Ohlen guy flaps his mouth, the less I like him and his game. He really should talk less and innovate more. Too harsh? Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you happen to mean the features that Rift launched with, then yes. I also expect a vehicle I purchase in 2012 to have at bare minimum the features of a similar vehicle released in the same model year (or previous model year). I don't expect a vehicle in 2012 to be missing basics like a speedometer or clock. lol. Same avatar, same analogy, responding to the same post at the same minute. ~Cheers to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetsnazos Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 ib4L, you're not allowed to criticize bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgeredMushroom Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 lol. Same avatar, same analogy, responding to the same post at the same minute. ~Cheers to you! Talz unite! <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The more this Ohlen guy flaps his mouth, the less I like him and his game. He really should talk less and innovate more. Too harsh? Not really. I think it demonstrates the effect 'PR Arrogance' has on customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 His use of "unfair" made me cringe. That's always a last ditch defensive retort when you are unwilling to admit mistakes and take action about it. The only 'fair' I know in this world is the kind used to pay for the bus. If he wants to stand by his design, then do it dagnabbit, but don't claim unfairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesizs Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Look, while I'm far from defending the many faults this game launch had, the big one being that IT WASN'T FINISHED, I actually believe that it's innovative. The game handles group questing flawlessly. They really figured out how to meld single player RPG story with an MMO world. The game engine itself might be a poorly optimized terror, but the phasing and grouping technology is superb. They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. They pushed the envelope, and that's innovation. you havent seen the hc'4's and even flashpoints then that just bug on your *** then , happened to me a few times we couldnt get inside a hc4 or flashpoint becouse group was on different phases , wile leader reset , didnt work , disbanded group didnt work , oh great now we have a new problem cant invite 2 of our party members now , lets all relog , dont work ... lets all abandon the quest and retake reform group , het wth we still cant get 2 members of our current group invited , some how it keeps conflictign with eachother .... played my sorcerer to 50 without any of these problems , but now when i'm running content tru second time , this happened to me 3 times already and i'm now lvl 35 'ish with my jugg .. yeh grouping is flawlessy ... nope .. still bugged m8 .. for allot of people this happens see this reguraly now i ngeneral chat on all planets i visited and when on fleet ... and its not that the leader no know how to reset or anything ... if relogging and even disbanding the quest completely dont fix it .. its just a big mess right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) He is comparing TOR to FPS games. That right there says it all in a nut shell that he doesn't get the genre at all. They are pretending this is an MMO when it is not. You missed the point he isnt comparing FPS to TOR he is comparing the evolution on FPS to teh devolopement of TOR its something completely diferent. Think about it!? what is new in recent call of dutys and Batlefields, with their predecessors? nothing zero. Now think what is new in TOR that it wasnt in other MMOs? not much i guess, besides the story telling experience from bioware games VO etc. That is the point. The whole quote on this "It's been a little bit of an unfair characterisation," SWTOR game director James Ohlen remarked to Eurogamer. "Because if you look at other game genres, if you look at a Battlefield or a Call of Duty or a Gears of War or even a Half-Life - those games use the same tried and true interface and the same tried and true game mechanics of the first-person shooter genre that's been around for 20 years. "If you look at real-time strategy games, they kept the same tried and true interface and the same tried and true mechanics that existed for 20 years. Same with adventure games, same with platformers, same with fighting games, sports games. And its obviously the OP is trolling big time and its not serious. Obviously the game has issues, But OP?!! combat log realy?!?! is that so important? TOR has bigger issues then that. Btw combat log will be coming soon, but only for the player wich is fine by me. And i think there is people who will be raging because they want to see the combat logs of other players, im happy they wont get that in TOR. Edited January 18, 2012 by Spartanik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Apart from ability delay and possibly the low-performance problem, none of the negatives you bring up are anything that can't be ironed out in a few months The game has been in development for years. These issues have been around since beta. If they are all things that could have been ironed out in a few months, then they should have been ironed out already. In fact, IIRC, combat logs and the ability to unlock the camera (of all things) WERE in beta and were later taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 To everyone who says "This game isn't innovative": Please go to your local library, find a dictionary and look up the definition of "Innovation". Then come back and tell me that Bioware hasn't innovated the questing experience of MMOs. As well as the crafting and companion systems of MMOs. Define "questing system"? The voice overs are nice, but the questing gameplay in WoW is much more varied and advanced. Most of the mechanics of questing here are on par with BC, but not remotely close to Cata where a large number of quests not only go well beyond simple kill and fetch, but also have a tangible and permanent impact on the gaming world. Stepping up from a text bock to voice overs and a dialogue wheel is innovative (even if the dialogue wheel could use a bit of work in terms of accuracy...). Moving all the other mechanics of questing back to 2007 standards is not innovative. Quite the opposite in fact. Questing is a bit of a mixed bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahagen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This game is as innovative as macaroni and cheese without cheese.......some people might like that idea but most understand that innovation does not entail the absence of key features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekooh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 "I don't know why the MMORPG genre is not considered to be a genre," Ohlen shrugged. Aside from the 5% ASSumption followed by the "I dont know" in the same statement, I can imagine James Ohlen has completely lost credibility as game designer to many gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astron_ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Aside from the 5% ASSumption followed by the "I dont know" in the same statement, I can imagine James Ohlen has completely lost credibility as game designer to many gamers. I sure as hell ain't going to buy any game this figure have had any interaction with whatsoever. Edited January 18, 2012 by Astron_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidzlefou Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally I'd like to know where the $300 million was spent, because I sure ain't seeing it. Who knows if that's even true. Seeing bugs that are in game since May...Something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekooh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ohlen blames customers for their unreasonable expectations for TOR. He clearly does not understand how the business-to-consumer relationship works. The main fuction any marketing department / program is to provide information to the consumer on what the product is and the features the product offers as well as to help shape consumer expectations to promote sales. Thus, the fault lies with BW and not the customer. WTG for blaming the customer again~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) "I don't know why the MMORPG genre is not considered to be a genre," Ohlen shrugged. Aside from the 5% ASSumption followed by the "I dont know" in the same statement, I can imagine James Ohlen has completely lost credibility as game designer to many gamers. That should have lost him any credibility he had with other mmo developers as well. MMORPG's have been their own genre since the nineties. You know, if Ohlen is the one who's been telling Reid what to tell us here on the forums, a lot of Reid's stupid statements ( such as in my sig ) suddenly make a whole lot of sense. Edited January 18, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts