CharagonIGN Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-12-bioware-swtor-post-mortem-its-more-innovative-than-an-fps This interview is kind of astounding in how much the game director doesn't seem to "get it". Labelling Star Wars: The Old Republic competent but not innovative is "unfair", BioWare told Eurogamer - the MMO does more than today's FPS and action games to push its respective genre forward. "It's been a little bit of an unfair characterisation," SWTOR game director James Ohlen remarked to Eurogamer. "Because if you look at other game genres, if you look at a Battlefield or a Call of Duty or a Gears of War or even a Half-Life - those games use the same tried and true interface and the same tried and true game mechanics of the first-person shooter genre that's been around for 20 years. Okay, first of all... I'm not looking at other genres. I'm not looking at Battlefield or Call of Duty or Gears of War. Why would you even go there? Furthermore, saying you're more innovative than "Call of Duty: 2011 Update" isn't exactly setting a high standard. I've made rice krispy treats more innovative than the Call of Duty franchise. Secondly... innovation is great, but not when it comes at the expense of the basics. Yes, you've done some spectacular things for making an engaging leveling experience that appeals to a wide range of playstyles all while telling a very cinematic story. But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. Your animation/GCD priority is backwards. Your auction house is a mess. Finding a group hasn't been this difficult since 2007. And you can't even keep your camera from auto-moving to your back. "But it is a genre, and we wanted to appeal to fans of that genre - we don't want to turn them away by making something that's radically different. And we wanted to take the lessons that have been developed in that genre over years and years and years and basically refine them, much like other companies do with other genres. Which "years and years and years" are you talking about because you seem to have missed most of the lessons on UI design. "The expectations on what the game was going to be for a lot of people was kind of different to what we were building. We were building essentially a classic MMO with BioWare storytelling set in the Star Wars universe. When do we get this? Or are we operating on different definitions of "classic"? And there were a lot of people out there who wanted us to reinvent the universe and come up with a game system that had never been done before. And that was something we weren't doing That IS what you did. I sure as heck have never played an MMO without a combat log. I just don't understand it. The bulk of the negative feedback I've seen both here and IRL has been that the game isn't enough like WoW, not that it's not different enough. If you want to be recognized for "raising the bar," I suggest you first meet it. Edited January 18, 2012 by CharagonIGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 OPs message TL:DR This game isnt innovative because it doesnt have old features. Cause that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wager Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 ops message tl:dr this game isnt innovative because it doesnt have old features. Cause that makes sense. qft 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceanzen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Look, while I'm far from defending the many faults this game launch had, the big one being that IT WASN'T FINISHED, I actually believe that it's innovative. The game handles group questing flawlessly. They really figured out how to meld single player RPG story with an MMO world. The game engine itself might be a poorly optimized terror, but the phasing and grouping technology is superb. They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. They pushed the envelope, and that's innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-12-bioware-swtor-post-mortem-its-more-innovative-than-an-fps This interview is kind of astounding in how much the game director doesn't seem to "get it". He is comparing TOR to FPS games. That right there says it all in a nut shell that he doesn't get the genre at all. They are pretending this is an MMO when it is not. Edited January 18, 2012 by Waypoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xabos Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 OPs message TL:DR This game isnt innovative because it doesnt have old features. Cause that makes sense. No, this game isn't innovative because it used features older than those old features. Good post OP. Nothing like paying for a product that went backwards in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. Yawn. I'd rather see phased storytelling in a dynamic world which actually changes and feels alive, rather than trapped in a snapshot of time. Edited January 18, 2012 by marshalleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 No, this game isn't innovative because it used features older than those old features. Good post OP. Nothing like paying for a product that went backwards in time. Exactly. This is old and stale except for VO/Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwnKesteven Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 A bit arrogant sounding, isn't he? I don't doubt there are haters putting zeros in metacritic - but there are also people scoring the game low for real reasons (to them at least). It almost reads as if BioWare feels entitled to 10 out of 10 scores a bit. And as for a mismatch between what they were developing and what some players expected, I can't help but think BioWare has to take responsibility for that. That's why there is a PR department. Its a decent game - its found a new way to tell stories in this genre. I enjoy the story lines but get frustrated by the game's mechanics. So on that level, I'd say it has innovated. Unfortunately, it seems to have come at the expense of the game's foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdream Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This guy should just take out the "creative" word out of his title. He's just a typical clueless project manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Making changes, for no reason other than to be "different", is not "innovative". Maybe someone should wake Ohlen and the rest of the devs up to the fact if it's "tried and true", there's a damn good reason. Because it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyFoxIndy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) He is comparing TOR to FPS games. That right there says it all in a nut shell that he doesn't get the genre at all. They are pretending this is an MMO when it is not. Um no genious, hes is stating that the MMO GENRE, is a GENRE like FPS is a GENRE. Stating that MMO's follow certain patterns and rules. just like other genres such as FPS. Edited January 18, 2012 by Moitteva inappropriate content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeinasindorei Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 To everyone who says "This game isn't innovative": Please go to your local library, find a dictionary and look up the definition of "Innovation". Then come back and tell me that Bioware hasn't innovated the questing experience of MMOs. As well as the crafting and companion systems of MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurusaud Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Great post, I wish game studios would hire actual gamers to build and promote their games instead of hiring mindless business majors. Do you really think he's even seen more than five minutes of the game let alone played it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 OPs message TL:DR This game isnt innovative because it doesnt have old features. Cause that makes sense. Can't tell if incompetent or illiterate. The OP clearly said that innovation is great but not at the expense of the basics, then goes on to say that the game *is* innovative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurusaud Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It took innovation to make a game this bad and still turn a profit on box-sales alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodSZ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Personally I'd like to know where the $300 million was spent, because I sure ain't seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 A bit arrogant sounding, isn't he? I don't doubt there are haters putting zeros in metacritic - but there are also people scoring the game low for real reasons (to them at least). It almost reads as if BioWare feels entitled to 10 out of 10 scores a bit. That's because they do feel entitled. They've gotten used to being the "big boys" and have allowed themselves to slack simply because "We're Bioware, they'll buy it no matter what!". Another company with that attitude recently got a huge attitude adjustment from their customers. Square-Enix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumajin Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 They have set the bar for phased storytelling in a permanent MMO world. They pushed the envelope, and that's innovation. Okay, look, I am a fan of the game and will be here in month-2. However, they haven't set the bar for anything, unless we are talking budget for voice acting. The storytelling is cool. Is it innovative? No, not really. For example, DCUO is already voice acted. All the missions were given to you via voice from the NPCs. None of it was "read a quest". The difference here, and the only difference, is the responses you can make in the cut scenes. Responses that after 15-20 levels become very repetitive/canned phrases for the most part. Other than that, DCUO's voice-acted missions are go here, get X; or go here, kill y. Same as SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeinasindorei Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Can't tell if incompetent or illiterate. The OP clearly said that innovation is great but not at the expense of the basics, then goes on to say that the game *is* innovative. The "basics" everyone claims are missing are not "basics", they're fluff. They're not necessary to run an MMO, nor are they necessary to do well in said MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonCarrade Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 this game saddens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Send him an email.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Responses that after 15-20 levels become very repetitive/canned phrases for the most part. Murder and mayhem await! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwnKesteven Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) To everyone who says "This game isn't innovative": Please go to your local library, find a dictionary and look up the definition of "Innovation". Then come back and tell me that Bioware hasn't innovated the questing experience of MMOs. As well as the crafting and companion systems of MMOs. Questing (story telling) yes. Crafting I almost feel was "innovated" into a footnote - not sure that was a good innovation. Companions, I'm not sure really - Guild Wars gave me companions but now - via the questing innovation, I can make them like me more and less, etc. I guess I'd say I don't see the innovation really on companions there - companions are benefiting from the questing/story telling innovation like many other things. Edited January 18, 2012 by barwnKesteven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommieKras Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 To everyone who says "This game isn't innovative": Please go to your local library, find a dictionary and look up the definition of "Innovation". Then come back and tell me that Bioware hasn't innovated the questing experience of MMOs. As well as the crafting and companion systems of MMOs. Innovated the questing experience? How so? At the end of the day, for all their voice acting polish, I was still killing 0/10 spiders and collecting 0/6 bear tongues. BioWare has not deviated from the same kind of game that has dominated MMOs since WoW's inception. Crafting? They've gone backwards when it comes to crafting. BioChem is the only profession worth any merit and relegating crafting as some menial task to be assigned to companions takes the fun out of the whole thing. Companion system? Again, how did they innovate? I prefer my Warlock demon from WoW. At least its AI is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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