Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Bakhtin]

I was surprised to get so much push-back from the "Toggle" idea. I thought of it simply as a way to disable mature content.

 

The affront of it comes from the conceit that gay relationships are somehow more "adult" oriented simply by virtue of the fact that they are gay. I'm all for toggling all possible relationships (you get all or you get none)if that will make people feel better but not for setting a tiered system whereby queer relationships are "adult content" while straight relationships are "kid-friendly". Yes, kids play video games. And some of those kids are gay too.

[elexier]

OK this is getting a bit silly now.

 

Try to cater to one side of the fence, the other does get left out (those being people that WANT SGR)

 

Try to cater to BOTH (the select gender preference toggle) and those that want SGR still are not happy.

 

/facedesk

 

 

So what options do we have.

 

 

Redo all the companion quests and dialog to suit both preferences (Those that do not want relationships at all just simply click one of the other two dialog options)

 

Just flick the Bi switch (as someone put earlier) and be done with it, and hope that future content is made to line up with any option.

 

Someone HAS to give a little for things to move forwards.

 

A lot of people want SGR there are some however that do NOT wish to see it, and even some that don't want to see any of it, A toggle MAKES sense, it may not be perfect, it may not be flawless, But its probably the most cost effective way of doing it, everyone gets to do it there way.

 

It would not be discriminating or alienating anyone.

 

The ONLY other way I can see this being solved is possibly the march update witch opens up new quest chains for current companions.

 

Now IF you do not like any of those, PLEASE at least suggest what you think would be better over all.

 

A lot of us are very attached to certain companions, Me its Kira the chemistry feels ready and if I didn't know any better would guess that's where its going. I can see it with Corso too, Doc just irritates me and I wan't to throw him out of an airlock, Particularly after my Jedi knight caved last night and doc's comment afterwards had alot of cheese.

 

My Knight feels dirty now, Was saving my first darkside points for Kira :'(

[stuffystuffs]

Wait, I'm a bit confused by this topic.

 

I was under the impression that they were adding in SGRA through a content patch with new characters (in a story expansion of some sort) and not via changing any dialog with existing ones.

 

So, this discussion is about how they could implement the latter even though it seems they aren't going to go with the latter.

[elexier]

Wait, I'm a bit confused by this topic.

 

I was under the impression that they were adding in SGRA through a content patch with new characters (in a story expansion of some sort) and not via changing any dialog with existing ones.

 

So, this discussion is about how they could implement the latter even though it seems they aren't going to go with the latter.

 

Yes they have said they WILL be adding SGR. But they have not said How or when.

 

ALOT of people want to see the current companions available for SGR and the current ones also fleshed out a little more BEFORE they add new ones.

 

I personaly do not see why we who want SGR should have to wait till POST 50 to get it when straight relationships get it as early as LEVEL 3. (Play Imperial assassin upto level 3 (just do the story arc not the side quests)

[stuffystuffs]

Yes they have said they WILL be adding SGR. But they have not said How or when.

 

ALOT of people want to see the current companions available for SGR and the current ones also fleshed out a little more BEFORE they add new ones.

 

I personaly do not see why we who want SGR should have to wait till POST 50 to get it when straight relationships get it as early as LEVEL 3. (Play Imperial assassin upto level 3 (just do the story arc not the side quests)

 

I took this statement:

 

"Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

to mean new companions.

 

I understand that most prefer content with the existing ones for various reasons. I personally think that post-lvl 50 SGRA romances in an expansion pack will feel tacked on an artificial compared to the others but I expect that's all we will get.

 

I have a lvl 31 Imperial Agent and I'm not sure what lvl 3 romance you are referring to.

[Wittand]

I took this statement:

 

"Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

to mean new companions.

 

I understand that most prefer content with the existing ones for various reasons. I personally think that post-lvl 50 SGRA romances in an expansion pack will feel tacked on an artificial compared to the others but I expect that's all we will get.

 

I have a lvl 31 Imperial Agent and I'm not sure what lvl 3 romance you are referring to.

 

The female IA can buy the Zabrak´s silence by paying in kind . Now I would not call that a romance since it is more like prostituting yourself but different strokes for different folks I guess.

[stuffystuffs]

Oh 'that' guy...yeah, I didn't think of that as a 'romance' but I guess it counts as some form of heterosexual content.

 

My Agent's blaster rifle did romance him, though.

[GengisKahn]

I took this statement:

 

"Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

to mean new companions.

 

I understand that most prefer content with the existing ones for various reasons. I personally think that post-lvl 50 SGRA romances in an expansion pack will feel tacked on an artificial compared to the others but I expect that's all we will get.

 

I have a lvl 31 Imperial Agent and I'm not sure what lvl 3 romance you are referring to.

 

It will still be discriminating, because straight characters have straight companions at lvl 3 and SGR not untill 50. And you will probably have to buy the expansion to get it.

 

I still dont see a reason why they cant do it in the current ones (like they should have done it since the begginning, they are already being discriminating with current content, doing SGR imposible untill lvl 50 and buying a new expansion will be ADDING MORE discrimination).

 

I cant belive that in year 2012 still exists discriminating companies.

Edited January 27, 2012 by GengisKahn

[stuffystuffs]

I still dont see a reason why they cant do it in the current ones (like they should have done it since the begginning, they are already being discriminating with current content, doing SGR imposible untill lvl 50 and buying a new expansion will be ADDING MORE discrimination).

 

If I were to guess, I'd say that it would be a lot easier to add in this content to current companions vs. creating a new male/female for each one of the 8 classes (that's 16 new companions/new quests, etc.)

 

As to why they won't...I don't know...perhaps they don't want to "change the characters" which is a common complaint regarding this, I think. That complaint seems very meta-y to me, though, since you won't even see this "change" unless you pursue the SGRA with said companion.

[AquaSky]

As to why they won't...I don't know...perhaps they don't want to "change the characters" which is a common complaint regarding this, I think. That complaint seems very meta-y to me, though, since you won't even see this "change" unless you pursue the SGRA with said companion.

 

My view on it is that's really taking some of the set traits away from the companions. Truth is, most people have a defined sexual preference (be it heterosexual or homosexual), so going "Oh btw everyone is bi" seems pretty cheesy and tacked-on. I'd rather see BW roll out additional companion options for m/m & f/f than to hit 'em all with the pansexual stick.

[Vodalus]

I am against toggles. There are two primary reasons for this.

 

First, a toggle is essentially saying OGRA is acceptable for everyone, but SGRA, well, that must be censored. In an effort to avoid this point straying to close to "real life" and not the game, I'll just let you finish that train of thought in your heads.

 

(The following is a logical fallacy. I know it to be such, as my justification for my position comes from the situation in a different topic, but this knowledge does not change my position.)

 

The second issue I have is that any concession will still be unacceptable to many who are opposed and they will continue to attack the implementation of SGRA as a whole. I am a survivor of this same war in another thread. 26,000+ posts on appearance customization, most of which has centered around an appearance tab, taught me that if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. We attempted a toggle-compromise in those discussions. Those against the Atab still argued against it; they argued against something they would never see or even know existed if they didn't look for it (off by default).

 

Sure, we who support SGRA could attempt to placate the. . . less congenial. . . members of the community here with a toggle, but once sided concessions for a group whose dogmatic views are immovable does not work. It simply weakens the argument for SGRA.

[DarthWarduke]

1. I am a straight married guy with kids.

2. I am playing a female toon (big whoop).

3. If my toon is going to romance anyone I want it to be a female.

 

End of my story.

[stuffystuffs]

My view on it is that's really taking some of the set traits away from the companions. Truth is, most people have a defined sexual preference (be it heterosexual or homosexual), so going "Oh btw everyone is bi" seems pretty cheesy and tacked-on. I'd rather see BW roll out additional companion options for m/m & f/f than to hit 'em all with the pansexual stick.

 

I'm just not sure how preventing a particular gendered PC from even pursuing a relationship with a same-gendered companion sets that same-gendered companion's sexuality.

 

It actually seems as if they are setting my Agent's sexuality by preventing her from even trying with Kaliyo but offering her the option to flirt/sleep with tons of guys (it's like the game is telling me, "look, here's the option to flirt with this guy because you could possibly be into him because you are a straight female, ofc"). It would be a different story if my Agent could make an advance towards Kaliyo that she refused on grounds of my character being female.

Edited January 27, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[AquaSky]

I think the lack of a flirt option for hetero companions with a same-sex PC is preferable to getting rejected if you make an advance on them. We're Star Wars geeks, after all - we get rejected enough in real life.

[stuffystuffs]

I think the lack of a flirt option for hetero companions with a same-sex PC is preferable to getting rejected if you make an advance on them. We're Star Wars geeks, after all - we get rejected enough in real life.

 

Right.

 

But I'd prefer that to not being able to express my PC's sexuality at all. I feel as if I'm stuck RPing a straight or asexual person. I've noticed that some of the female characters in the IA storyline come off as a bit flirty towards my female PC (at least in my opinion) but she apparently has the worst gaydar ever.

[GengisKahn]

My view on it is that's really taking some of the set traits away from the companions. Truth is, most people have a defined sexual preference (be it heterosexual or homosexual), so going "Oh btw everyone is bi" seems pretty cheesy and tacked-on. I'd rather see BW roll out additional companion options for m/m & f/f than to hit 'em all with the pansexual stick.

 

But they wont be bi.

 

Separate characters have different companions (my kaliyo is not your kaliyo), thats the point. There wont be any bi companion, if anything there will be bi characters.

 

Actually, light jedis should not only not be bi, but they should be asexual, since supposedly they should have any relations.

 

I do think that a toggle is not the solution, every flirt action in the game should be available for both female and male characters, and if any "romance cinematic" has to be changed as well as dialogs, the fine, change them, most of them doesnt even need changes since they are pretty generic.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Sireene
Inappropriate Content

[elexier]

Right.

 

But I'd prefer that to not being able to express my PC's sexuality at all. I feel as if I'm stuck RPing a straight or asexual person. I've noticed that some of the female characters in the IA storyline come off as a bit flirty towards my female PC (at least in my opinion) but she apparently has the worst gaydar ever.

 

I know right, Soo many of the NPC's yo come across, Heck about 70% of what your companion just "SAYS" to you could be taken as flirts but there not labeled as such and therefore don't actually do anything.

 

I actually wonder if people would be complaining about all NPC's being "Bi" if they were all Bi to begin with. (Ok not all but a fair few, common even if your not that way inclined it would be pretty funny seeing a big *** buff trooper flirting with a skinny young commander.

[Diopter]

They should put Anders in as a bi option ...

[Uluain]

I took this statement:

 

"Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

to mean new companions.

 

I understand that most prefer content with the existing ones for various reasons. I personally think that post-lvl 50 SGRA romances in an expansion pack will feel tacked on an artificial compared to the others but I expect that's all we will get.

If Bioware actually believe that will be a satisfactory resolution, they will likely be continuing their MMO without my subscription.

 

I would still like to hear plainly from the developers what they intend, and how, and when, before I am much more deeply invested in this game.

[Nozybidaj]

Why do we limit ourselves by demanding some kind of universal objective playing experience where we get 'our way' at the expense of someone else? Is the only way to enjoy your hetero romance with the Atton Rand or your gay romance with Juhani is if you know that no one else can make Atton or Juhani gay or straight?

 

It's 2012, video games have been around for half a century. I think the game development world can move towards a model where every player who plays their game gets to decide who they want to hook up with and leave it at that.

 

Absolutely. I as the player should have the choice of which of the romances options I pursue. Not much more to say than that really. My subscription ends soon (just got my going away survey) so I doubt I'll be posting again, at least not until my JK has the option of romancing Kira throughout a normal playing experience that allows me to experience the content and the stories as they should have been from day 1.

[Zandilar]

OK this is getting a bit silly now.

 

Try to cater to one side of the fence, the other does get left out (those being people that WANT SGR)

 

Try to cater to BOTH (the select gender preference toggle) and those that want SGR still are not happy.

 

/facedesk

 

Understand that I am quite frustrated by this too. This is such a simple thing, and I'm amazed that anyone who wants SGRA doesn't see why a toggle is a problem.

 

 

Redo all the companion quests and dialog to suit both preferences (Those that do not want relationships at all just simply click one of the other two dialog options)

 

Just flick the Bi switch (as someone put earlier) and be done with it, and hope that future content is made to line up with any option.

 

The method of implementation of SGRAs are completely unrelated to why the idea of a toggle is bad. You could put a toggle in for both options, and that is what some people are suggesting.

 

Someone HAS to give a little for things to move forwards.

 

A lot of people want SGR there are some however that do NOT wish to see it, and even some that don't want to see any of it, A toggle MAKES sense, it may not be perfect, it may not be flawless, But its probably the most cost effective way of doing it, everyone gets to do it there way.

 

It would not be discriminating or alienating anyone.

 

Okay, replace "SGRA" with "interracial romance" in what you wrote and read it again. Do you think people would be happy with that suggestion? No? Neither do I.

 

 

There's no need for me to suggest alternatives. You've pretty much captured all the options. The issue of a toggle is a different thing altogether, and should be treated as a separate issue.

 

I'd be happy with a hybrid of some existing characters getting the SG treatment, and the introduction of new SGRable characters to the game. Provided that every SG path gets a neutral/light side character, and that it doesn't matter what level you are.

 

My main thing is that I don't want to reroll.

[elexier]

Okay, replace "SGRA" with "interracial romance" in what you wrote and read it again. Do you think people would be happy with that suggestion? No? Neither do I.

 

I don't agree on this analogy at all, Do I see the point, YES I DO, but also see it from the other side of the fence YOU CANNOT PLEASE every single person.

 

Let me put it to you another way.

 

Lets for arguments sake say that Bioware just give up on SGR and leave it out completely, How long do you think it would be before another MMO comes along that has it in. (A VERY long time, The makers will take one look at the can of worms here and say hell no)

 

Now lets flip it shall we.

 

Bioware put SGR into the game as I suggested with a romance preference selection upon that chars creation. Now when another MMO comes along that wants to "Rule the roost" so to speak, They will look at why different MMO's are doing well see SGR in SWTOR and try to outdo there competition.

 

Also this term "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" Is not always appropriate.

 

Clown fish - Its good for them to hide in sea anemones, Another fish tries it they end up the sea anemones lunch.

 

 

A great man once said "Sometimes you have to back up a little, To go forwards more"

 

I believe this is one of those cases where the saying is appropriate.

[Nozybidaj]

I don't agree on this analogy at all, Do I see the point, YES I DO, but also see it from the other side of the fence YOU CANNOT PLEASE every single person.

 

Do you please the people who simply want to be included or do you please the people who are so intolerant that a single option in a dialogue wheel throws them into hissy fits?

 

I suppose from a business standpoint, the group with the most people. I think the number of completely irrational people out there that the inclusion of SGRA's would just ruin their day is probably pretty small, especially in a playerbase made up of BW fans.

 

That said, I don't oppose a toggle or whatever silly thing people want added so they can ignore their own deficiencies, fine whatever. But that can come later when BW has time to worry about it and should not be allowed to cloud the waters of the far larger issue here of the missing same gender romance content nor delay its implementation.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Did it occur to anyone that the reason why Bioware has said nothing more on this subject so far is because of exactly how rabid the SGRA crowd has become? If I were James O, and I said next week:

"We understand the concerns of the same-sex romance community, and we have made considerable efforts in that area. You can expect something soon..."

 

 

The boards would explode with even MORE anger. "Why isn't it here now? Why are you wasting our time with this totally insulting non-update? What, you have the time to tell us but not to implement it?"

 

I've followed almost every one of these threads.. and if I've seen one constant it is how completely rabid the base is. I've seen several very fair ideas in these threads that were shot down and insulted by fellow posters with a fervor that even took me by suprise.

 

If I was a developer, and working on this... I wouldn't say ANYTHING. I would complete the work... make a patch note... set the raw meat out in the cage and then run like all holy hell and lock the door behind me like Dr. Sattler in Jurassic Park.

[Seifz]

Did it occur to anyone that the reason why Bioware has said nothing more on this subject so far is because of exactly how rabid the SGRA crowd has become? If I were James O, and I said next week:

"We understand the concerns of the same-sex romance community, and we have made considerable efforts in that area. You can expect something soon..."

 

 

The boards would explode with even MORE anger. "Why isn't it here now? Why are you wasting our time with this totally insulting non-update? What, you have the time to tell us but not to implement it?"

 

I've followed almost every one of these threads.. and if I've seen one constant it is how completely rabid the base is. I've seen several very fair ideas in these threads that were shot down and insulted by fellow posters with a fervor that even took me by suprise.

 

If I was a developer, and working on this... I wouldn't say ANYTHING. I would complete the work... make a patch note... set the raw meat out in the cage and then run like all holy hell and lock the door behind me like Dr. Sattler in Jurassic Park.

 

I think we'd all be a lot quieter if BioWare gave us some more information. Currently, all we've got is a vague statement about adding SGRAs eventually.