Are you blind Bioware? Tanks!

[aranha]

Bleeds (internal) and Magic (elemental) have been the bane of tanks since MMOs began, and for that matter since RPGs began.

 

It's completely intentional and should be there.

 

And I play an Immortal Juggernaut as my main.

 

Theres allways some kind of ressistance involved in MMORPGs for people to reduce that pain. They seemed to have missed that in SWTOR for some reason which is a big issue!

[Yfelsung]

Theres allways some kind of ressistance involved in MMORPGs for people to reduce that pain. They seemed to have missed that in SWTOR for some reason which is a big issue!

 

There has never been a game I played where bleeds were resistible. It's always been a form of 100% armor pen against tank classes.

 

And I haven't played a game in a while that had resistances on PvP gear.

 

This is why a tank has to balance armor, defensive stats AND endurance. Our big health pool is our counter to elemental and internal, our defenses are counters to other stuff.

[Nytak]

I would also like to hear from the developers regarding their stance on this matter.

 

There is a post from George Zoeller about this, in the Jedi Knight forums none the less.

 

Basically he says they take balance seriously, but aren't going to start making drastic changes this early until the playing field is more level in terms of gear.

 

Personally, I have a great time doing PVP as my guardian. Some classes are easy, some classes are hard, others are a fairly even match. I think a majority of PVP complaints come from people who think way to highly of themselves and can't fathom any reason for losing a match other than class imbalance, developer favoritism, <pick your incorrect reason>....

[doublehelix]

Why are PVPers always the ones screaming the loudest?

 

Its their form of PVP on forum

[acheros]

Its bad in the way that experienced players go for tanks due to their guard and taunts. The Tank isnt tanky and is just acting as a support and while tanks do shieldable damage the damage DPS hit them with are ignoring armor, shield and defense meaning Tank sets do nothing for us in PVP forcing us to get DPS gear to compete!

 

PVP has always been a DPS game, every MMO(theres been alot) I've played, PVP is about hitting hard and fast, and having a healer for when the other guys do the same thing. Tanks are ONLY useful for things like ball running in huttball.

[Yfelsung]

Why are PVPers always the ones screaming the loudest?

 

Because competitive play requires more fine-tuned balance than cooperative play.

 

It's a pretty easy concept.

 

Imbalance in PvE can be annoying, but ultimately the boss drops and the loots flow.

 

Imbalance in PvP can negate the usefulness of entire classes, reduce the enjoyment of the game itself and add to frustration.

 

Hence, PvP players look at balance through a magnifying glass and we find holes that a PvE player would never think about.

[masterpd]

How did you guys miss that there are damage type which tanks CANNOT protect themselfs against?

 

Why isnt this a top priority in patching right now? Why do we as tanks have to have such a HUGE flaw yet NOTHING is said or done about it?

 

Damage types that IGNORES armor and defense and cannot be shielded! How the hell are supposed to counter this? Why do tanks need to get DPS gear to be viable in pvp?

 

Can we PLEASE get an awnser on this topic or should we all just reroll sorcs/sages as they are the only class in the game that can shield all damage types?

 

Main thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

1.) a good healer can help you with good def support abilities, like a sorc/cnslr.

2.) tanks in pvp are not dps but are pain-trains built for wrecking or defending. There is pvp tank gear (idk past lvl 40 O_o) so have at it. Grab that huttball and solo score it with 5 players on you or solo defend a node all match.

3.) tanks are meat shields, thats it. your job is to hold threat and survive "most" of the dmg and its up to healers to keep you alive the rest of the time. Otherwise, how have healers?

[MrPigCS]

Words of wisdom: PvP isn't balanced 1v1. Get a good premade going or at the very least a pocket healer.

[aranha]

There is a post from George Zoeller about this, in the Jedi Knight forums none the less.

 

Basically he says they take balance seriously, but aren't going to start making drastic changes this early until the playing field is more level in terms of gear.

 

Personally, I have a great time doing PVP as my guardian. Some classes are easy, some classes are hard, others are a fairly even match. I think a majority of PVP complaints come from people who think way to highly of themselves and can't fathom any reason for losing a match other than class imbalance, developer favoritism, <pick your incorrect reason>....

 

The big issue here is that all the classes get the same ressistances in the endgame as Expertise is the only ressistance stat. If we use Tank get we deal no damage, get some more HP and take the same damage. If we pick DPS gear we do ok damage, Have the same HP as all other DPS classes and take the same damage!

 

The gear needs to change or else we will get hardcountered in higher tier PVP as our role is flawed and easiliy countered. The damage scales from DPS classes and our protection remains the same as so called "squishies" for 80% of damage made in PVP.

[Lerakakrel]

I stopped reading after this.

 

Tank speccs are USELESS in PVP and severely flawed!

 

You are joking right? You have never met tank and good dps / healer combo, I bet 3M credits.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Lerakakrel

[Seyyal]

Bleeds (internal) and Magic (elemental) have been the bane of tanks since MMOs began, and for that matter since RPGs began.

 

It's completely intentional and should be there.

 

And I play an Immortal Juggernaut as my main.

 

i get your point. but what you dont understand is that all our talent tree (pt bh) is centered around boosting shield procs, the majority of our abilities are based on our shield going off. but it never goes off because the only things it shields are ranged or melee.

 

now open you ability tab and tell me how many of your skills are ranged/melee.

im guessing maybe 3 of your skills. everything else is tech or force.

 

if thats how it is supposed to be then fine. but dont give me a pvp set loaded with shield/absorb/accuracy ***? dont make my talent tree all shield skills.

 

we were supposed to be able to pvp with a tank spec in this game, but the tank spec doesnt work in pvp. at all because only 3-4 of the 8 classes have any abilities that trigger the shield.

[acheros]

Because competitive play requires more fine-tuned balance than cooperative play.

 

It's a pretty easy concept.

 

Imbalance in PvE can be annoying, but ultimately the boss drops and the loots flow.

 

Imbalance in PvP can negate the usefulness of entire classes, reduce the enjoyment of the game itself and add to frustration.

 

Hence, PvP players look at balance through a magnifying glass and we find holes that a PvE player would never think about.

 

I'm pretty sure its because PVPers are whiny self entitled children who think they're more important and more leet then anyone else.

 

Want proof? Go to any PVP server and just look at the ATTITUDES.

[Gaidax]

I am a MM Sniper and I just can't touch tanks at all, really. Your comments about how Sorcs are tankier are laughable, because for me Sorcs are the squishiest targets ever, honestly I can't think of a better target in PvP.

 

To be honest, I consider all those cries to buff tank defenses against other classes a joke really. If everyone will have such issues as snipers vs tanks, then they will effectively be unkillable.

[aranha]

1.) a good healer can help you with good def support abilities, like a sorc/cnslr.

2.) tanks in pvp are not dps but are pain-trains built for wrecking or defending. There is pvp tank gear (idk past lvl 40 O_o) so have at it. Grab that huttball and solo score it with 5 players on you or solo defend a node all match.

3.) tanks are meat shields, thats it. your job is to hold threat and survive "most" of the dmg and its up to healers to keep you alive the rest of the time. Otherwise, how have healers?

 

1. A good healer can keep any class alive and kicking!

 

2. Tanks in PVP are utility supports which are easily countered with the right knowledge as good players are starting to be aware of and its a hardcounter like no other

 

3. Tanks arent more meatshields then healers. The damage ignores armor and shields meaning they do the same damage to all classes.

[Yfelsung]

I'm pretty sure its because PVPers are whiny self entitled children who think they're more important and more leet then anyone else.

 

Want proof? Go to any PVP server and just look at the ATTITUDES.

 

Bad attitudes don't negate a point.

 

Many PvPers may go about providing their opinions in a less than friendly way, but the point stands.

 

Imbalances in PvP are a much bigger problem than imbalances in PvE, especially with no damage meters to highlight them.

 

And it's not like the PvP changes make PvE imbalanced, the game becomes more balanced overall, it's just that many PvE players don't seem to care that much about imbalances in damage output as, mentioned earlier, the boss still dies and the loots still flow.

 

Now I don't agree with the OP that internal and elemental damage need changes, I feel personally that it's balanced in PvP just fine, but I was answering the original question.

 

No one suffers when the game becomes more balanced. You may have to change the way you play a class in PvE due to changes in PvP, but those changes did make your class more balanced in the end.

[Seyyal]

I'm pretty sure its because PVPers are whiny self entitled children who think they're more important and more leet then anyone else.

 

Want proof? Go to any PVP server and just look at the ATTITUDES.

 

please stay on topic. if you dont understand the issue please educate yourself or dont post.

 

if the mitigation is working as intended then fine, but then we need a complete re itemization of our pvp gear and the pve tank spec is 80% wasted points for pvp.

[Yfelsung]

i get your point. but what you dont understand is that all our talent tree (pt bh) is centered around boosting shield procs, the majority of our abilities are based on our shield going off. but it never goes off because the only things it shields are ranged or melee.

 

now open you ability tab and tell me how many of your skills are ranged/melee.

im guessing maybe 3 of your skills. everything else is tech or force.

 

if thats how it is supposed to be then fine. but dont give me a pvp set loaded with shield/absorb/accuracy ***? dont make my talent tree all shield skills.

 

we were supposed to be able to pvp with a tank spec in this game, but the tank spec doesnt work in pvp. at all because only 3-4 of the 8 classes have any abilities that trigger the shield.

 

The tank spec works just fine in PvP, I play, again, as an IMMORTAL JUGGERNAUT. I wear all tank gear while I'm gearing for PvP, and I do fine.

 

I throw guard on a squishy and support them as best I can. At the end of the game I have massive tokens and credits due to how many protection points I rack up.

 

Your tank spec is viable, just ensure you're doing what you're supposed to do, soaking damage for someone else.

[Seyyal]

I am a MM Sniper and I just can't touch tanks at all, really. Your comments about how Sorcs are tankier are laughable, because for me Sorcs are the squishiest targets ever, honestly I can't think of a better target in PvP.

 

To be honest, I consider all those cries to buff tank defenses against other classes a joke really. If everyone will have such issues as snipers vs tanks, then they will effectively be unkillable.

 

this is because you have ranged skill, one of the few classes. so you are being effected while other classes arent. you should be just as upset.

 

this is not neccessarily a cries to buff us. it is calling otu the fact that our specs are based on shields going off which doesnt happen unless we are fighting you or straight melee classes.

all tech/force classes arent effected by our shields

[aranha]

I am a MM Sniper and I just can't touch tanks at all, really. Your comments about how Sorcs are tankier are laughable, because for me Sorcs are the squishiest targets ever, honestly I can't think of a better target in PvP.

 

To be honest, I consider all those cries to buff tank defenses against other classes a joke really. If everyone will have such issues as snipers vs tanks, then they will effectively be unkillable.

 

Correct mate! Snipers are one of the only classes the Tank tree is able to protect itself from thus why Snipers come out very weak vs Tanks in PVP!

 

Sorcs get the same Damage Reduction and Health as Tank classes BUT they are the only ones that get a protection spell that protects from every spell meaning that a pre casted shield that is then recasted gives them about 6+ k extra health while still having strong heals to sustain themselfs.

 

Tanks do hold their ground vs snipers forexample becose our shield works vs them but VS Tech/Internal/Elemental damage we fall just as fast as DPS classes as PVP gear gives us no protection for this

[Seyyal]

The tank spec works just fine in PvP, I play, again, as an IMMORTAL JUGGERNAUT. I wear all tank gear while I'm gearing for PvP, and I do fine.

 

I throw guard on a squishy and support them as best I can. At the end of the game I have massive tokens and credits due to how many protection points I rack up.

 

Your tank spec is viable, just ensure you're doing what you're supposed to do, soaking damage for someone else.

 

does youre tank spec depend on shield procs to keep your abilities going??? no it does not.

so you get protection points, that has nothing to do with this conversation.

[Yfelsung]

does youre tank spec depend on shield procs to keep your abilities going??? no it does not.

so you get protection points, that has nothing to do with this conversation.

 

Many of my abilities cause me to get defensive procs to use them, and using them keeps my defenses up.

 

For example, I can't use retaliation with a def proc, without using constant retaliate, my defenses are down 6% compared to what they could be.

 

Many of my talents have been spent solely on forms of damage reduction that are worthless vs internal and elemental.

 

It is your job to die first, remember that.

 

That's a tank's life. First to fight, first to die.

[Lerakakrel]

1. A good healer can keep any class alive and kicking!

 

Dude.. you are missing the point, seriously. Guard?

 

Just for record.. I play healer, my mate play tank and we are unstopable. You have no idea how easy is to heal yourself and sith jugg while under guard compared to healing anything else without, really. Maybe not from your point of view as you just see numbers. People say that healer wins the game, well I think that tank wins the game. Atleast from my perpective. With tank we can just walk with ball from mid to spawn, we can tank 6 people on base etc.

 

Well the problem might be that I have no idea what level you are and we are sitting on 550 expertise, but we have zero problems against same geared opponents.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Lerakakrel

[JustTed]

Is this about tanks... in PvP?!

 

Who rolls a tank to PvP?

 

Moreover, who plays an RPG to PvP? If I want to compare my gear to someone else, I'll go shopping.

[Yfelsung]

Is this about tanks... in PvP?!

 

Who rolls a tank to PvP?

 

Moreover, who plays an RPG to PvP? If I want to compare my gear to someone else, I'll go shopping.

 

I roll a tank to PvP.

 

And I PvP because attacking a slightly smarter target dummy 8 to 16 people at a time isn't my idea of a good time.

[Blackweb]

So healers should be our hardcounter? That makes even more sense doesnt it......just be glad you CAN viably PvP with a tank spec. Ever try that in WoW? lol

 

Why can't you "viably" be a tank in pvp? You find a healer and guard him, cc ppl trying to kill him thus keeping everyone alive, seems pretty logical to me? Guess it depends on which tank you are but as a knight you have, aoe slow which is low cost and no cd, push, stasis etc. plus you can still pack a punch if you time your master strikes etc.

 

Seems to me we have our hands full in pvp?