severe imbalance on heals

[prochuvi]

need be hotfixes asap i really havent one imbalance bigger on mine 16 years of playing mmorpgs.

how can be posible that the aoe heal that havent limit on target can heal more that aoe heals od 3 or 4 targets?

i really cant get it how the sage have the best single heal,the best aoe heal(heal more and have more targets)the best instant(the shield) and the best recource(try stackign critical and u can forget that u have oen recource)

i could forget about the fact that mine aoe heal heal less(i am trooper combat medic)but how can be posible that mine kolto bomb heals for 2k to 3 !!! people and the salvation of sages heal for 500x10 times to 8 or 16 or 200 people?

[Walldorf]

And if you fis that strip the trooper down to light armor or much better, skip all other healing classes so everyone must play a sage/sorc. It's GREAT to so only the cons of a class to another and skip all the Pro facts. Great job!

[Blarrg]

Disregard Edited January 17, 2012 by Blarrg
Lemons don't make good frisbees

[prochuvi]

And if you fis that strip the trooper down to light armor or much better, skip all other healing classes so everyone must play a sage/sorc. It's GREAT to so only the cons of a class to another and skip all the Pro facts. Great job!

 

first,if u play on imp side it isa fact that u only gonna see sorc

second,,the only pro of troopers is that we have more mitigation but im speaking about pve and as heal u are tanking the boss right?so im skiping it

 

the fact is that on every mmo each heal have its niche.

on everquest 1 :clerics had big heals withlong cast and druids fast heals.

everquest2: shamans had shields but bad direct heals,templars had the long cast heals and druids fast heals.

rift: clerics had the best direct heals, druid the best regen and mages the best aoe heal

wow: palas have the best single heal,sacer the shield and druids the regen

swtor: sages have the shield,the best aoe heal,the best single heal,sawbones have the regen and trooper have the.....mitigation?

 

yes great balance

 

and im spanish so if i can write very good im sorry dude

Edited January 17, 2012 by prochuvi

[Wilow]

Might not be the best, but this is worth a look for you: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=150137

 

-Sorcs are the only healer with no "oh crap" heal (instant and big on a cd mechanism).

-Our AoE heal is the only AoE heal on a 2 sec cast (the other 2 classes are instant I believe). This means we not only need to plan ahead, but also I could be a waste of a heal if after casting something prevents people from staying inside the heal (a lot can happen in 2 secs).

-...

 

There are other things I could mention, but as was already said in this post, it's very easy to say one class is better then others by comparing its strengths to other class weaknesses. By that logic, I could say that the BH/Trooper was one of the worst DPSs because it doesn't have any long term CC (I'm sorry if they get cc later on, my highest is only in the low 20s), or that the Smuggler/IA was the best healer because it can stealth to get out of trouble when they pull aggro.

[prochuvi]

trooper/bh get the best cc of all because we can use it on every mob(not only machines as smugleer or others) and on raid stealth is useles as on fp.

you oh crap heal is the uber shield of 6-9k it isnt good?ok you have other 2 isntants heals more so 6-9k rune more 2k insant with 200 hp regen more other 3k heal with other 200 regen isnt good versus the oh crap spell from trooper that heals for 4k

really u cant say nothing to defend the sage,single ehal with the same cast time that trooper but heal 20-30 % more,aoe heal of 6k versus 3people heal of 2k, 2 instant heals and regen more one shield versus one instant heal.

and if u would have raided EV u could know that u dont need really tell to your partymember that dont move out of your area because:

on first named every people is stacking behind the torret

second named everymember is stacked so whe u need the aoe heal everypeople is near

3 and 4 are filler nameds

last boss u only need the aoe heal when u are going down and it is very small so all people is in range of your heal

[prochuvi]

oh also i forgot the detail of in combat rezz that trooper havent but hey somebody tell us that sage isnt overpower

[AForgottenTome]

combat rezz/interrupt dont make or break a healer.

 

1) Interrupting should never be the healers job.

2) If you have to use a combat rezz, you messed something up to begin with, so why should you be proud of having to use it?

 

There are healer imbalances certainly, but nothing is so concrete that you can't complete content with all 3. It's a silly and stupid argument that has no place at the current game with players since there is no real world way for us to judge it to begin with.

 

So stop with the fearmongering and the crying, and lets actually have some legitimate discussion on things that all healers need, let the balance teams that are looking into it look into it.

[prochuvi]

sure 7 of 10 post on the HEALING forum is about the sage OP but as we havent parses we cant say to nerf them?

*********** crap if one class have the same cast time heal with the same recast and one heal more than other i dont need a parse to tell me that it is better.if one aoe heal heal more and to more member i dont need a parse to know that it is better.

on dps the operator is totally broken and have u seen nerf?no

on heal the sage is OP and we arent seeing nerft for the same reason , we have lost to every serious pvper because they havent nerf to the OP dps and the sorc utility, and soon we are going to loose pve people because they arent fixing the imbalance on pve neither

 

it is easy, the sage have better single heal,better aoe heal,better oh crap buttom,interrupt,combat rezz, deagro to friend,sprint. where the trooper have more mitigation,....................... and nothing more.

it is umbalanced and every people that say no or is playing one sage or he is blind

Edited January 17, 2012 by prochuvi

[Lascero]

sure 7 of 10 post on the HEALING forum is about the sage OP but as we havent parseswe cant say to nerf them?

*********** crap if one class have the same cast time heal with the same recast and one heal more than other i dont need a parse to tell me that it is better.if one aoe heal heal more and to mroe member i dont need a parse to know that it is better.

on dps the operator is totally broken and have u seen nerf?no

on heal the sage is OP and we arent seeing nerft for the same reason , we havent lost to every serious pvper because they havent nerf to the OP dps and the sorc utility and soon we are going to loose pve people because they arent fixing the imbalance on pve neither

 

it is easy the sage have better single heal,better aoe heal,better oh crap buttom,interrupt,combat rezz, deagro to friend,sprint where the trooper have more mitigation,....................... and nothing more.

it is umbalanced and every people that say no or is playing one sage or he is blind

 

Time to reroll!

 

If you hurry, you can have 1 of each healing class, so you can play whichever is the flavor of the month at the time!

[DrekorSilverfang]

Might not be the best, but this is worth a look for you: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=150137

 

-Sorcs are the only healer with no "oh crap" heal (instant and big on a cd mechanism).

-Our AoE heal is the only AoE heal on a 2 sec cast (the other 2 classes are instant I believe). This means we not only need to plan ahead, but also I could be a waste of a heal if after casting something prevents people from staying inside the heal (a lot can happen in 2 secs).

-...

 

There are other things I could mention, but as was already said in this post, it's very easy to say one class is better then others by comparing its strengths to other class weaknesses. By that logic, I could say that the BH/Trooper was one of the worst DPSs because it doesn't have any long term CC (I'm sorry if they get cc later on, my highest is only in the low 20s), or that the Smuggler/IA was the best healer because it can stealth to get out of trouble when they pull aggro.

No "oh crap" heal? How do you figure... static barrier is the most powerful instant cast single target direct "heal" in the game. It can be used every 20s on each person(effectively separate cooldown on each person). Mercs have Emergency scan which can only heal 1 target every 21s for 2k and Ops have Surgical probe which heals for 1k. Sorcs static barrier stops 3k damage.

 

Mercs AE heal is a joke in terms of healing, it's entire purpose is to apply the 10% damage reduction and 5% healing bonus buffs on their targets. Ops heal needs a LOT of planning and preparation as if you are casting it at anything less than 90 energy it's inefficient compared to alternatives. Hanging out at 90+ energy in the middle of heavy AoE is next to impossible.

 

BH's do have a 60s in combat CC... pretty much a mirror of sorcs.

[JLapp]

combat rezz/interrupt dont make or break a healer.

 

1) Interrupting should never be the healers job.

2) If you have to use a combat rezz, you messed something up to begin with, so why should you be proud of having to use it?

 

There are healer imbalances certainly, but nothing is so concrete that you can't complete content with all 3. It's a silly and stupid argument that has no place at the current game with players since there is no real world way for us to judge it to begin with.

 

So stop with the fearmongering and the crying, and lets actually have some legitimate discussion on things that all healers need, let the balance teams that are looking into it look into it.

 

No one is "proud" to use it but things happen. If one class has the ability to rez someone in combat and finish the fight, while the other ones option is the wipe and reset...that is an imbalance.

 

Other classes CAN do everything but that doesn't mean sages can't do it earlier (able to be less geared) or make things smoother (better healing in the same gear). If you and your group want a challenge, enjoy playing the other healers. If you want the best healer in the game, roll a sage.

 

Persoanlly I don't want all the healers to do exactly the same thing. Some should have things the others don't....but right now sages can do everything the other two healers can and then some.

[Darkami]

Just reroll SorC , they are X 10 the healers. The other healers are a joke , in pvp and PVE

 

Unchanged as time goes by there will only be sorc/sage healers. The others are THAT broke

Edited January 17, 2012 by Darkami

[Dashall]

oh also i forgot the detail of in combat rezz that trooper havent but hey somebody tell us that sage isnt overpower

 

This one I'll agree with. I enjoy my CM Trooper, he's fun to play. Sage might be the superior raid healer to be sure but I still like the Trooper. No Combat Rez though is weak.

[Aedgyth]

Might not be the best, but this is worth a look for you: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=150137

 

-Sorcs are the only healer with no "oh crap" heal (instant and big on a cd mechanism).

 

 

What Oh crap heal do other classes get ? As a Operative I have an instant 1500-2000 heal every 1.5 seconds provided I have tactical advantage... that won't help anyone. Sorcs have a instant cast shield which is the best oh, oh lets try to get things under control healing ability in the game.

 

 

 

-Our AoE heal is the only AoE heal on a 2 sec cast (the other 2 classes are instant I believe). This means we not only need to plan ahead, but also I could be a waste of a heal if after casting something prevents people from staying inside the heal (a lot can happen in 2 secs).

-...

 

 

My AoE heal has a 10 metre radius and heals four people - it's not that great, but the worse thing about it is that is costs 30 energy, so if I am not at full energy I cannot cast it - or if I do I then have to stand there like a idiot for a few seconds waiting for my energy to regen a little before I can cast anything else (anyone who even tries to mention DG then save me the trouble, I am not in the mood for jokes)....

 

 

 

There are other things I could mention, but as was already said in this post, it's very easy to say one class is better then others by comparing its strengths to other class weaknesses. By that logic, I could say that the BH/Trooper was one of the worst DPSs because it doesn't have any long term CC (I'm sorry if they get cc later on, my highest is only in the low 20s), or that the Smuggler/IA was the best healer because it can stealth to get out of trouble when they pull aggro.

 

 

No matter any short comings they may have they are currently the best healer in the game by a big margin, followed by BH then OPs - it's not even a close race.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Aedgyth

[avictor]

Time to reroll!

 

If you hurry, you can have 1 of each healing class, so you can play whichever is the flavor of the month at the time!

 

+1 This is the biggest issue right now in these type of games. We are suffering from the generation of "I want the best class and I want it now". God forbid you roll a toon and actually enjoy it.

[Wilow]

What Oh crap heal do other classes get ? As a Operative I have an instant 1500-2000 heal every 1.5 seconds provided I have tactical advantage... that won't help anyone. Sorcs have a instant cast shield which is the best oh, oh lets try to get things under control healing ability in the game.

 

The Surgical Probe/E Medpack is a free cast on any target below 30%, with no cd. It might not be the 10k heal you want, but in situations (yes, you take different healers to deal with different situations, you don't stack up on just 1 healer)where the entire group got hit by something (which happens more often then one might think, even if the situation doesn't currently exist in our current limited group encounters).

 

While the instant cast shield is very very nice (I'm not denying that its very powerful), it does require the target to be deionized (the debuff that gets put on when you shield someone. So if, for example, you have just shielded someone and they take a lot of damage, the sorc "oh crap" heal is useless until the debuff goes away (20 seconds). This also means in an operation (raid), having more sorcs will limit each others usefulness (as much as I don't like using wow classes as examples, you wouldn't raid with 5 disc priests as your healers).

 

BTW, if you are healing without a tactical advantage/upper hand proc available, you are doing something wrong (yes, I heal as a smuggler).

 

My AoE heal has a 10 metre radius and heals four people - it's not that great, but the worse thing about it is that is costs 30 energy, so if I am not at full energy I cannot cast it - or if I do I then have to stand there like a idiot for a few seconds waiting for my energy to regen a little before I can cast anything else (anyone who even tries to mention DG then save me the trouble, I am not in the mood for jokes)....

 

I'm not going to comment on this until they either fix the wording on the Sorc/Sage Aoe heal (atm sorc AoE heal only heals every secs, without an initial heal like the description says...I think the sage AoE heal is working though). AoE heals might have to be looked at, if only to balance their costs (30 energy is too much IMO). Also, the fact that a non-combat pet can be one of those 4 people still needs to get fixed (last time I noticed at least).

 

No matter any short comings they may have they are currently the best healer in the game by a big margin, followed by BH then OPs - it's not even a close race.

 

What do you mean by best healer? Best Operation (raid) healer? Best PvP healer? Best Group healer?

 

Sorcs can't handle multiple people taking damage over any long period of time. They don't have the hots to do it, and spamming heals will just make them go oom (oof?).

(the same with spamming shields over the multiple people while still healing). IA/Smugglers are great at healing multiple people over a period of time (yes, I know you can't do that and put out big heals at the same time without running out of energy, but they can group heal with much more ease then the other 2 classes).

 

As I haven't leveled a BH healer, I'll refrain from using them as examples

 

And I apologize for using you as my reply post, but it was the most coherent

 

As for the second instant heal Sorcs/Sages have, that hot isn't really considered an instant heal (mine crits for 1500 plus a 300 point hot and thats with 470 bonus healing).

 

TLDR Each healer is going to do something that is better then the other 2, and this is good. We don't want all 3 healers to have the exact same abilities. (sorry for long post)

[RiskyBiz]

TLDR Each healer is going to do something that is better then the other 2, and this is good. We don't want all 3 healers to have the exact same abilities. (sorry for long post)

 

Something tells me this guy plays a sorc

[Wilow]

trooper/bh get the best cc of all because we can use it on every mob(not only machines as smugleer or others) and on raid stealth is useles as on fp.

you oh crap heal is the uber shield of 6-9k it isnt good?ok you have other 2 isntants heals more so 6-9k rune more 2k insant with 200 hp regen more other 3k heal with other 200 regen isnt good versus the oh crap spell from trooper that heals for 4k

really u cant say nothing to defend the sage,single ehal with the same cast time that trooper but heal 20-30 % more,aoe heal of 6k versus 3people heal of 2k, 2 instant heals and regen more one shield versus one instant heal.

and if u would have raided EV u could know that u dont need really tell to your partymember that dont move out of your area because:

on first named every people is stacking behind the torret

second named everymember is stacked so whe u need the aoe heal everypeople is near

3 and 4 are filler nameds

last boss u only need the aoe heal when u are going down and it is very small so all people is in range of your heal

 

Sorry had to add this, I know English isn't your primary language, so I apologize if I understood you wrong.

 

Sorcs only have 1 instant heal (a hot which at 470 bonus heal heals for less then 700/crits for 1300 with a less then 275/crits for 4500 hot) and 1 channeled ability (at 470 bonus heal heals for 900 and crits for 1500 over 3 secs).

 

I have raided before, and when I talked about people moving out of your AoE heal, I was referring to them being forced to move away (either the boss moves away and the dps want to stay on the boss, or the boss puts a negative effect on the spot of your AoE heal). From experience, very few boss mechanics let the dps group up together for any period of time (even melee have to split up into smaller groups on each side of the boss). If you are referring to the bosses out in game currently, I would remind you they are the first set of bosses this game has, are meant to be easy (to give everyone an opportunity to see/down them with ease) and first "raid like encounters" of any game tend to be tank and spanks for the most part, with very little abilities you need to watch out for.

[DrekorSilverfang]

The Surgical Probe/E Medpack is a free cast on any target below 30%, with no cd. It might not be the 10k heal you want, but in situations (yes, you take different healers to deal with different situations, you don't stack up on just 1 healer)where the entire group got hit by something (which happens more often then one might think, even if the situation doesn't currently exist in our current limited group encounters).

 

1 GCD

 

Static Barrier > SP

 

2 GCDs

 

Static Barrier + Resurgence > 2x SP

 

3 GCDs

 

Static Barrier + Resurgence + DI > 3x SP.

 

Even if you consider that you are always healing someone under 30% SP still doesn't measure up.

[Wilow]

1 GCD

 

Static Barrier > SP

 

2 GCDs

 

Static Barrier + Resurgence > 2x SP

 

3 GCDs

 

Static Barrier + Resurgence + DI > 3x SP.

 

Even if you consider that you are always healing someone under 30% SP still doesn't measure up.

 

Assuming your targets are below 30%, you just cost the sorc healer 10/15% of their force pool for just under 4k in heals while all you did was regen your own energy(not sure how much you would have healed for with those 3, I think 3K total?). So ya, the sorc should heal for more then the IA in that case, since the sorc is using more of its resource pool. (Please don't come back comparing each heal, since each of the 3 classes have different resource pools, which regenerate at different rates.)

 

I only did my initial reply to this thread because the OP was stating things way out of proportion, and now the thread has turned into something else. I'm not saying Sorcs/Sages are under or overpowered. Things still need to be fixed, yes, but they aren't near the state which the OP thinks they are.

 

Out of curiosity, how much do the other classes "big heal" heal for (list how much bonus heal you have too please)? Sorc at 470 bonus heal heal for just under 3k, and crit for just under 5k.

[prochuvi]

488 heal bonus

critical multiplier 76,7

single heal

2500 critical 4950

aoe heal(if 3 targets can be called aoe)

1200 critical 2200

 

i agree with you that not every heal must heal the same because sages should be limited by the force as designers told us as they should heal more.

but so im angry after that i seen to one friend with 45 % critical being spaming heals non stop and then he told me that i was misstaken that he isnt limited by force that when he have high critical the force is limitless.

so if 3 heals arent limited by the resource and one ehal(sage)heal more single and aoe we have a problem and sure if mine class was healing more than other i could tell u also that rerroll or l2p or this things that kids usually tells.

the fact is that sage must be enrfed or single or aoe,they cant be the best on every aspect of the heal department

[DrekorSilverfang]

Assuming your targets are below 30%, you just cost the sorc healer 10/15% of their force pool for just under 4k in heals while all you did was regen your own energy(not sure how much you would have healed for with those 3, I think 3K total?). So ya, the sorc should heal for more then the IA in that case, since the sorc is using more of its resource pool. (Please don't come back comparing each heal, since each of the 3 classes have different resource pools, which regenerate at different rates.)

 

I only did my initial reply to this thread because the OP was stating things way out of proportion, and now the thread has turned into something else. I'm not saying Sorcs/Sages are under or overpowered. Things still need to be fixed, yes, but they aren't near the state which the OP thinks they are.

 

Out of curiosity, how much do the other classes "big heal" heal for (list how much bonus heal you have too please)? Sorc at 470 bonus heal heal for just under 3k, and crit for just under 5k.

 

If I use 470 healing bonus(I also baked in 25% crit and 80% crit bonus and worked an average out... SB does not crit though) you'd get roughly:

Static Barrier - 3.2k

Resurgence - Direct 900 (I won't account for HoT in this since it's a 15s one but it does grant 10% armor and hacks off 1s on the cast time of DI making it 1.5s cast)

DI - 3.4k

 

So all said and done about 7.5k on average in 3 GCDs. Also burning 10-15% of your force pool is nothing, it really isn't. Unlike Ops or Mercs we do not have to carefully monitor our force to stay above certain levels. I can burn 50% of my force and still recover it without issue. When it comes to resource management IA's and Mercs get royally screwed. I have merc and IA's both leveled above 30 and it's honestly lame that you effectively have 40 energy to work with not the full 100 as if you go below 60 you start bleeding 2 energy every second due to the lost regen.

 

I haven't run the numbers for other classes big heals but my guess is sorcs are the highest although technically speaking it also has the longest cast time unless you manage your force bending well(in which case it has the shortest).

[Rafkin]

1) You're ignoring ALL the advantages of the other healers.

 

2) Your writing is the thing that really needs hotfixed.

 

Even if english isn't your first language do other languages not use paragraphs?

[PapaPants]

1) You're ignoring ALL the advantages of the other healers.

 

2) Your writing is the thing that really needs hotfixed.

 

Even if english isn't your first language do other languages not use paragraphs?

 

 

Capitalize words derived from proper nouns.

 

Example:

I must take English and math.

English is capitalized because it comes from the proper noun England, but math does not come from Mathland.