geschmonz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) Dont listen to Hardcore-Gamers, they are only a small minority. 2.) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navycrow Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 dungeon finder is what your trying to make even most hard core have said ok aslong as it stays server based not cross -relmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areka Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So just a thread saying "Add dungeon finder"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geschmonz Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, i also would also ask to easy up Hero-2 & 4 Quests for example, to make them solo doable. If you think about the lower number of low level chars, it will be problematic to find groups at a very close time in the future. But yes, i think a dungeon finder would be a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky_walkerPL Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) lol. I'm slowly getting used to topics saying different things than threads content, but.... this is just too much. But yes, i think a dungeon finder would be a great addition. and I think it'd be a terrible addition. EOT. Edited January 17, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psysention Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) Dont listen to Hardcore-Gamers, they are only a small minority. 2.) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Thats it. dungeon finder kills the social part of a mmo game.. if you want to find a group, just socialize with the people around you how come i was able to find 16 great players for EV pug raid without a dungeon finder? you can't even find 3 other players to play alongside with you? maybe you shouldn't play mmo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defilez Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This thread is both new and interesting. In future please make use of the search feature at the top of the forum as there is allready at least 2 50+ page threads about this. But seriously the're more likely to take note of you by bumping the large threads rather than cluttering up the forum with another thread on the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortwave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ughhh, sucks that most people fail at video games. How about you guys make games casually hardcore - Oh, yeah since most people stink at games we have to live with mind numbing gameplay just so the companies can rake in the scrub dollars. Why are Westerners, Americans/Canadians really, so bad at games? Have you guys ever played with Koreans or Germans, their scrubs are like our pro gamers. It's so sad. Now you read this, and you read it well: Americans will one day been the most pro gamers on the planet. This cannot go on much longer - it's a shame! Now go practice being good at games just like you practice being good at anything else! If you were told from birth to strive for greatness in everything you do, everything from the monumental to the mundane, you would be a good gamer. Now l2p!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFoo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The hardcore gamers are the ones that invest the most time/money in to the games. THe casual ones always quit when the going gets tough. For long term recurring revenue it's always the hardcore gamers that bring the money to the table, the ones that have experienced multiple MMO's and know which mechanics know best based on hundreds of thousands of hours of experience. Casual gamers want easy mode and quit when they don't get it. My point: OP has no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A dungeon finder isn't a "golden rule of MMOs". In fact it arguably wrecks as much of the "golden" stuff of MMOs as it helps, bringing MMOs down to the gutter level. A golden rule of MMOs is that everyone always things they are right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortwave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A golden rule of MMOs is that everyone always things they are right though. That's any endeavor in life, man. A golden rule of MMOs is that girl is a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geschmonz Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The hardcore gamers are the ones that invest the most time/money in to the games. Let me fix this to: The hardcore gamers are the ones that demand the most time/money in game-development, even if they are just a small minority. Hardcore-Gaming is Parasitism. Hardcore-Gamers demand special extra-hard content, which they only demand access to for themself. They bind a lot of money and resources for just a very small audience. The other players, which never see hardcore-content, have to carry and pay their content. Edited January 17, 2012 by geschmonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivianchief Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) Dont listen to Hardcore-Gamers, they are only a small minority. 2.) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Thats it. You do realize that all MMOs that jumped on the "casual players" wagon pretty much failed so far? Even WoW started to adjust to their casual players and the game gets worse every day. WAR, DAoC etc, all of these had one thing in common.. they took about as long as a single player game to be finished. In addition the content wasn't hard and overall it was just a daily grindfest, with no real rewards because the only reward a MMO can offer is gear. And named gear will be replaced in 1-2 weeks, therefor its not really worth farming for to begin with. What I mean is, that WoW, which is the benchmark for every new MMO as it seems, started as a pretty "hardcore" mmo. 20 days or more to lvl your character to 60. One instance (note INSTANCE, not raid) took up to 3-4 hours and was incredibly hard. I am not saying that this was a friendly concept, but the game was pretty great. You really worked for equipment and when you got it, it actually meant something to you. Even no lifers and hardcore gamers were so busy with this game, that they barely managed to get everything. It was a complete time sink and that is what, as it seems, successful MMO needs to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 dungeon finder kills the social part of a mmo game.. if you want to find a group, just socialize with the people around you how come i was able to find 16 great players for EV pug raid without a dungeon finder? you can't even find 3 other players to play alongside with you? maybe you shouldn't play mmo.. People like the OP are destroying MMOs. Hey I want this because I cant be bothered to do that so please add this. lol. Lame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggletphyre Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) Dont listen to Hardcore-Gamers, they are only a small minority. 2.) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Thats it. Because games get better when you cater to "Casuals" (aka scrubs who probably still play 8 hours a day anyways) And "Hardcore" ppl cant only play 1 hour a day or something amirite? You have the goods and the bads, amount of time invested in this game has nothing to do with it. And seeing how a feature like dungeon finder was specifically designed to have Goods carry the Bads (there is always 1 bad in a dungeon finder group, if your lucky. Thats probably why they add a deserter debuff because you have to decide if carrying the bad takes less time then waiting for debuff to disappear) you cant really start catering to the bads because that destroys the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You do realize that all MMOs that jumped on the "casual players" wagon pretty much failed so far? Even WoW started to adjust to their casual players and the game gets worse every day. WAR, DAoC etc, all of these had one thing in common.. they took about as long as a single player game to be finished. In addition the content wasn't hard and overall it was just a daily grindfest, with no real rewards because the only reward a MMO can offer is gear. And named gear will be replaced in 1-2 weeks, therefor its not really worth farming for to begin with. What I mean is, that WoW, which is the benchmark for every new MMO as it seems, started as a pretty "hardcore" mmo. 20 days or more to lvl your character to 60. One instance (note INSTANCE, not raid) took up to 3-4 hours and was incredibly hard. I am not saying that this was a friendly concept, but the game was pretty great. You really worked for equipment and when you got it, it actually meant something to you. Even no lifers and hardcore gamers were so busy with this game, that they barely managed to get everything. It was a complete time sink and that is what, as it seems, successful MMO needs to be You just hit the nail on the head ^ Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geschmonz Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 You do realize that all MMOs that jumped on the "casual players" wagon pretty much failed so far? Did they? One of the most successfull MMOs still got 10 Mio subscribers, and is casual-oriented. Realitycheck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortwave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) You do realize that all MMOs that jumped on the "casual players" wagon pretty much failed so far? Even WoW started to adjust to their casual players and the game gets worse every day. WAR, DAoC etc, all of these had one thing in common.. they took about as long as a single player game to be finished. In addition the content wasn't hard and overall it was just a daily grindfest, with no real rewards because the only reward a MMO can offer is gear. And named gear will be replaced in 1-2 weeks, therefor its not really worth farming for to begin with. What I mean is, that WoW, which is the benchmark for every new MMO as it seems, started as a pretty "hardcore" mmo. 20 days or more to lvl your character to 60. One instance (note INSTANCE, not raid) took up to 3-4 hours and was incredibly hard. I am not saying that this was a friendly concept, but the game was pretty great. You really worked for equipment and when you got it, it actually meant something to you. Even no lifers and hardcore gamers were so busy with this game, that they barely managed to get everything. It was a complete time sink and that is what, as it seems, successful MMO needs to be I don't have a lot of times to play MMOs but still, I don't care if it takes me a year to get to level cap and if content is extremely hard. So what if I can't see content - that means I wasn't on my game so I don't deserve to see it. If you buy a game and it's too hard to beat, well then you're often SoL. Why do MMOs have to pander into the hands of fail players. Man this genre was so much better when it was the hobby of basement dwelling nerds. Stupid WoW and marketing this genre during South Park and Family Guy episodes. Now you have a bunch of bad players who don't know how to manage time or don't understand right effort crying suff takes too long or is too hard. Don't give me that hardcore players are losers crap! I was introduced into MMOs by my next door neighbor, a dentist who makes $200,000/year. You all just are like "Good gamers are losers" because you know you are the true failure of a player. You spent your money on a game, maybe a rig, and you suck - now you want the whole world to bow down to you. Hy, again, it'f funny, interesting really, how, say Koreans, work harder than your average American yet get on games and tear it up. Don't give me that Oh I fail in game because I am some Harvard educated lawyer irl, and I cant find the time to get good at a game between bailing out Senators and getting my Benz detailed. If you were properly raised you would have been told to strive for excellence in everything you do; school, sports, music, games, love, anything. Instead you just fail and because you do you want to make the games easier so you can have your cake and eat it too. I hope some MMO comes out from a companies with balls. I hope GWII takes a thousand hours to level cap. I hope all content is extremely challenging. Edited January 17, 2012 by Shortwave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinKor Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) dont listen to anyone else but me. ftyf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Did they? One of the most successfull MMOs still got 10 Mio subscribers, and is casual-oriented. Realitycheck? Every since WoW bent for the casuals in WotLK its been bleeding subs. TBC was not casual orientated, it had great MMO content. Dont get me started on what Cata has done to WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortwave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Every since WoW bent for the casuals in WotLK its been bleeding subs. TBC was not casual orientated, it had great MMO content. Dont get me started on what Cata has done to WoW. I wish these casuals would just pick up with their Alienware Laptop and Abercrombie and Fitch t-shirts and leave. Gaming is not for them, they are not welcome. These are the people who laughed at gamers in school, grew up, realized their life sucks, and are now like "Oh, I see you gamers were cool, I see how your passion kept you happy. I wanna play now." SHUT UP you stupid fail wannabe game players. Doesn't Nintendo make the Wii and DS for people like you? Well go get that puppy game and deal with it, scrub! And just to think you wanna get a PC like you're pro. At least get your feet wet with a console since it is an inferior piece of equipment. Sorry but PC gaming is reserved for real gamers only. Edited January 17, 2012 by Shortwave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWuorinen Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, i also would also ask to easy up Hero-2 & 4 Quests for example, to make them solo doable. If you think about the lower number of low level chars, it will be problematic to find groups at a very close time in the future. But yes, i think a dungeon finder would be a great addition. NO, NO and NO. Keep GROUP quests as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Respectully, no thank you. I've seen what a Dungeon Finder can do and I don't want to ever experience it again. Ever. A global (well, galactic ) LFG channel is ok, a dedicated LFG search tool is also great (so you can look for a group while, say, doing dailies on Ilum). A cross-server automatic match tool, though, is a disaster waiting to happen. Every since WoW bent for the casuals in WotLK its been bleeding subs. TBC was not casual orientated, it had great MMO content. Dont get me started on what Cata has done to WoW. Agreed. I've played WoW through all the bumps of the launch, through the greatness of TBC, yet it wasn't until shortly after the launch of Wotlk that I felt lost, out of place. For Cata, a lot of us had hoped that Blizzard would bring the game back to TBC levels - instead, they wotlked it some more and now with pokemon battles in Pandaria, I am wondering where my beloved game had disappeared. Funny thing is - I would have expected the casuals to pick the game up more now that it's simplified - instead, it seems they aren't as big a "majority" as we are led to believe. Edited January 17, 2012 by tufy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motoeric Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1.) Dont listen to Hardcore-Gamers, they are only a small minority. 2.) Do the exact opposite of what Hardcore-Gamers ask for. They dont want a Dungeon Finder? Add one. Your big playerbase of Casual Gamers will say "thanks". Thats it. do you even know what a hardcore player is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivianchief Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Did they? One of the most successfull MMOs still got 10 Mio subscribers, and is casual-oriented. Realitycheck? Perhaps you should stop seeing butterflies everywhere you look friend. WoW started as a normal MMO and really earned its subscribers because they invented a great "original/vanilla" game. The game was a complete time killer and unrewarding for people who wanted to play 1-2 hours a day. It was still a great game, because it was, simply put, endless. No matter what aspect you dwelled into, you really weren't able to finish the content in less than half a year... not to mention 2 weeks like new MMOs allow you to. As someone already checked, with the first addon (which was more casual friendly then the original one) it was still an alright game, but once they released WOTLK and Cataclysm the game went down the sewers. Sorry but thats a fact. THe 10 mio subscribers were not earned with WOTLK and its follow up addons. The game build up a reputation and got recommended, people just took their time to try it out. WoW lost over a million subs after the launch of cataclysm. It makes the same mistake as every new MMO that comes out. Its simply too casual friendly. Hell I played dark souls 100 hours or so (which is a single player game) and it took me about the same time to get my char to 50 only to realize that the endgame was either 3 Warzones (pvp) or , wich i wanna try out, easy raids (and not buggy). And I should mention that I am just at my new game ++ in dark souls.... Hardcore gamers will agree when I say, I am not finished Some dude made a post 1 week ago saying he cleared everything he wanted to clear 2-3 weeks after release. How on earth are you gonna keep such a person to the game, if you don't offer anything new for him anymore? I am not hating the game, I am just saying that your theory on "do what casuals want"... will eventually kill off every MMO that is yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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