Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Raeln]

Actually the easier and faster people people can get groups,

The more some people start to just not caring about theire performance in the group, They know they can get a new group within minutes.

 

Fun and stress free enviroment is actually based on that players do actually commit to perform theire role adequate while playing in groups.

 

And as it stands now Recount is not needed but when Dual Specc and X-server LFG is in the game i would say it is mandatory in a group enviroment

 

Recount is independent of dual-spec and X-LFG. Dual-spec is necessary to encourage more players to play their advanced class to the fullest. I can tell you that where I would normally heal for my guild in WoW - I will not heal in TOR. I'm not paying or spending the time to switch from DPS (my ops role) to healing to do flashpoints and back and forth. I'm not spending the time to reorder my keybinds and action bars. With dual spec - I would be far more inclined to do so.

 

X-LFG is not something I have to have. I'd like to have at least a same-server LFG system but I'm not big on pugging anyway. I did use WoW and Rift's LFG systems and was glad to get some content done. I will say that I refuse to idle in the Fleet for a long time waiting for a group. I log on a game to play it - not idle around. When I run out of codex entries to get on my main, I'll probably be heading to another game to fill my time outside of raid nights for awhile. I'll eventually level the other 6 classes for their story but not consecutively. I'm certainly not going to idle for an hour on the Fleet waiting for a flashpoint group.

 

Recount is another issue. It is an incredibly handy tool in the hands of a good player. At the same time, it is an incredibly destructive tool in the hands of a bad player. I think if Bioware makes it self-only, it would be okay.

 

The real issue with Recount is once it's in the game (parsers included) - then Bioware will be forced to change how they design future Flashpoints and Operations. I'm not crazy about that at all. I like feeling comfortable that all of my friends will be able to at least complete the content on normal. Where I have been a hardcore raider in the past - I have several friends that really are just content with showing up and pushing buttons - regardless if they are in the form of the best rotation possible.

[Varghjerta]

 

Recount is another issue. It is an incredibly handy tool in the hands of a good player. At the same time, it is an incredibly destructive tool in the hands of a bad player. I think if Bioware makes it self-only, it would be okay.

.

 

Actually i would say all convinience instead of just Recount there,

Basicly for every player that can deal with it there is also a player that can't.

 

And then the problem arises from there how should people that can't deal with it be handled/spotted/Helped .

Edited February 27, 2012 by Varghjerta

[JediElf]

Recount is another issue. It is an incredibly handy tool in the hands of a good player. At the same time, it is an incredibly destructive tool in the hands of a bad player. I think if Bioware makes it self-only, it would be okay.

 

The real issue with Recount is once it's in the game (parsers included) - then Bioware will be forced to change how they design future Flashpoints and Operations. I'm not crazy about that at all. I like feeling comfortable that all of my friends will be able to at least complete the content on normal. Where I have been a hardcore raider in the past - I have several friends that really are just content with showing up and pushing buttons - regardless if they are in the form of the best rotation possible.

 

Very, very well said.

[-Kaelis-]

Recount-like functionality? HELL NO!

 

Why? Have you played WoW past its introduction, especially in the age that was WotLK?

 

Recount functionality, combined with the later-introduced concept of gear score, basically served to divide the greater WoW community.

 

Here we are trying to BUILD this community and you would introduce something which has been almost completely divisive in other communities? Insanity!

 

Why do so many people act as though their entire gameplay experience depends on a tool which tells them whether they are playing good or not based on some numbers which are entirely situational? Can you not determine how well you are playing by the overall effect you are having in a group? Are the enemy creatures dying? Are your team-mates staying alive? Is there something you can do to enhance your team's survival? If so, then do it.

 

Seriously. This is a team event. If you're constantly worried about outshining your peers, then maybe this isn't the game you're looking for.

 

Learn to play for fun and stop looking to make this game more like WoW. That game left a pretty big hole where the fun used to be. Don't repeat the mistakes of the past just because they're familiar to you.

[DarkKronoz]

I am for the recount. Short story

 

I am co-leader of a guild, and we had a BH in our main HM ops group that was new to MMo's but learning fast. Had had all Rakata gear as a group we were all geared columi/rakata. But for some reason we kept hitting the enrage timers. Unacceptable. All of the main group does PVP as well in the WZ's ( DPS meter...sort of-hover over dmg and shows biggest hit and dmg per sec ) He was putting out 100k as a fully geared BH. HE WAS DOING SOMETHING WRONG. Our other BH's in non pvp gear were putting out 450k in wz's. Point being is with out some sort of dmg meter we would have never assumed it was him. Repair bill over repair bill. If we had some sort of dmg meter we could have corrected the problem, educated him, and saved time and credits. Now he is on par and we are tearing through nightmare ops.

 

It really depends on the guild, person if they tear down the person for not doing "good dps" or if they take the time correct the problem and educate the person. At some point gear dosesnt become a factor anymore, it is all the player. To become the best that you can be, you need to be able to see what you are doing.

 

Some people have been playing MMO's for years and some have just started playin. Not everyone understands how threat is generated and how the mechanics of MMO's work. By giving them something visual to look at, I believe will help them or maybe it wont.

[TheSkate]

Yep. Bring it on.

 

Why do so many people seem to think that identifying someone who is doing poor dps is a bad thing? You make it seem like if you're doing 2% lower damage than Superman, you're going to be crucified.

 

There are smart, good people, who just don't push good numbers. Most of the time, this is as a result of a fundamental misunderstanding or clicking their abilities. Some of us will try to work with someone to help them improve, but we can't know definitively that they need help without a metric to show it.

 

I'll never understand the argument for willful ignorance. Actual data on your performance is nothing but positive. Besides, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you knew for sure that you were contributing just as much or more than everyone else?

 

You obviously did not play WoW the last couple of years. You truly would be crucified if you did 5% less than ideal DPS (so it isn't 2%) on content the entire group out leveled and out geared. Not 10% less than needed to win the fight, but 10% less than IDEAL DPS. "So what if the RNG never let you get those last 4 best-in-slot items. You BETTER do ideal dps or get the **** out of my perfect group." EVERYONE pushed big numbers in WoW whether they were needed or not. And most made sure you heard about your crappy gear, spec, or rotation if it wasn't perfect. THAT is what recount gives you.

 

It is not an argument for ignorance. It is an argument for good, honest, innocent fun . If you don't know, or care, what the difference is then a publicly spammable recount style parser is what you want. A private, non-postable, recount would allow people to know their contribution and improve if needed without destroying the community.

Edited February 28, 2012 by TheSkate

[livnthedream]

You obviously did not play WoW the last couple of years. You truly would be crucified if you did 10% less than ideal DPS on content the entire group out leveled and out geared. Not 10% less than needed to win the fight, but 10% less than IDEAL DPS. "So what if the RNG never let you get those last 4 best-in-slot items. You BETTER do ideal dps or get the **** out of my perfect group." EVERYONE pushed big numbers in WoW whether they were needed or not. And most made sure you heard about your crappy gear, spec, or rotation if it wasn't perfect. THAT is what recount gives you.

 

It is not an argument for ignorance. It is an argument for good, honest, innocent fun . If you don't know, or care, what the difference is then a publicly spammable recount style parser is what you want. A private, non-postable, recount would allow people to know their contribution and improve if needed without destroying the community.

 

bad argument is bad. the same elitist *****s are already doing this with far simpler things, like "you dont have enough hp for hm fps" and similar retarded bs. recount arguably makes this "easier", but id rather a bit more knowledge actually entered the playerbase. do you actually read the forums? go to any class forum and you can see multiple threads arguing about things as simple as stat weights, when we have math directly from the game files that show us how they scale. go look at the flashpoint/op forums at the sheer number of screams about "bugs" when half of them arent even bugs, and the vast majority of the other half are easily beaten with decent (not even good for the most part) play. this even goes so far as to bleed through into the crafting forums with people throwing absolute temper tantrums about how "worthless" crafting is when mathematically speaking its on par and or exceeds columni/rakata (unoptimized, but them the majority still has no clue how to optimize it in the first place).

 

the benefits to recount outweigh the negatives. more knowledge can only improve the overall game. bullies will always be bullies, and they will find a way to regardless. dont blame tools for people being stupid.

Edited February 28, 2012 by livnthedream

[TheSkate]

bad argument is bad. the same elitist *****s are already doing this with far simpler things, like "you dont have enough hp for hm fps" and similar retarded bs. recount arguably makes this "easier", but id rather a bit more knowledge actually entered the playerbase. do you actually read the forums? go to any class forum and you can see multiple threads arguing about things as simple as stat weights, when we have math directly from the game files that show us how they scale. go look at the flashpoint/op forums at the sheer number of screams about "bugs" when half of them arent even bugs, and the vast majority of the other half are easily beaten with decent (not even good for the most part) play. this even goes so far as to bleed through into the crafting forums with people throwing absolute temper tantrums about how "worthless" crafting is when mathematically speaking its on par and or exceeds columni/rakata (unoptimized, but them the majority still has no clue how to optimize it in the first place).

 

the benefits to recount outweigh the negatives. more knowledge can only improve the overall game. bullies will always be bullies, and they will find a way to regardless. dont blame tools for people being stupid.

 

So because *** holes are already acting like *** holes you want to give them an even better, easier way to be *** holes?

 

I just don't see the benefits as being all that. Cookie cutter specs, gear and rotations take a good deal of the fun out of the game. What if I like the way my marksmanship/engineer sniper plays and the dps is good enough to clear content, but not quite as good as a marksmanship/lethality dps? Now if I don't respec to the FotM and learn a whole new play style I'm not good enough any more? THAT is what will happen with public recount. That is not a benefit.

 

The right tool in the wrong hands is worse than no tool at all.

[Raeln]

bad argument is bad. the same elitist *****s are already doing this with far simpler things, like "you dont have enough hp for hm fps" and similar retarded bs. recount arguably makes this "easier", but id rather a bit more knowledge actually entered the playerbase. do you actually read the forums? go to any class forum and you can see multiple threads arguing about things as simple as stat weights, when we have math directly from the game files that show us how they scale. go look at the flashpoint/op forums at the sheer number of screams about "bugs" when half of them arent even bugs, and the vast majority of the other half are easily beaten with decent (not even good for the most part) play. this even goes so far as to bleed through into the crafting forums with people throwing absolute temper tantrums about how "worthless" crafting is when mathematically speaking its on par and or exceeds columni/rakata (unoptimized, but them the majority still has no clue how to optimize it in the first place).

 

the benefits to recount outweigh the negatives. more knowledge can only improve the overall game. bullies will always be bullies, and they will find a way to regardless. dont blame tools for people being stupid.

 

It's going to be great to see people want absurd DPS numbers for their flashpoints again.

 

"LF DPS for <insert flashpoint here>, DPS must be above 20k"

 

^ look absurd? yes, it is and yes I seen crap like that in WoW all the time.

 

The issue is the above statement will propagate itself as people read that and come to think that is the necessary DPS for clearing flashpoints - even if all that is necessary is 2k.

 

Some tools are better off never released.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Raeln

[livnthedream]

So because *** holes are already acting like *** holes you want to give them an even better, easier way to be *** holes?

 

I just don't see the benefits as being all that. Cookie cutter specs, gear and rotations take a good deal of the fun out of the game. What if I like the way my marksmanship/engineer sniper plays and the dps is good enough to clear content, but not quite as good as a marksmanship/lethality dps? Now if I don't respec to the FotM and learn a whole new play style I'm not good enough any more? THAT is what will happen with public recount. That is not a benefit.

 

The right tool in the wrong hands is worse than no tool at all.

 

wrong, you see that right now. anyone who has a basic understanding of classes already has a decent idea of what kind of rotation you are doing and whether or not you are specced correctly. as i said above we already know how abilities scale, how to achieve optimal rotations and general the barebones of overall theorycraft. what we dont have is confirmation of boss abilities working correctly, what exactly killed us and how, any kind of confirmation to catch additional bugs that we cant reproduce outside of watching film perfectly.

 

its not an issue of whether you are "good" enough, its a question of why would you choose to waste everyones time. most of the specs currently fall into the 5% rule that bioware promised us. that kind of margin is fine. saying otherwise is frankly stupid.

 

your entire argument is based on being selfish. you want the right to play poorly and not be chastised by your fellow players. "we are clearing content, it doesnt matter" just means you want to put in as little effort as possible and still receive maximum rewards. its not right, nor is it fair.

 

by the way, your very end statement is the biggest crock of bull EVER. by that reasoning humans should never have developed technology because people are stupid.

[Raeln]

wrong, you see that right now. anyone who has a basic understanding of classes already has a decent idea of what kind of rotation you are doing and whether or not you are specced correctly. as i said above we already know how abilities scale, how to achieve optimal rotations and general the barebones of overall theorycraft. what we dont have is confirmation of boss abilities working correctly, what exactly killed us and how, any kind of confirmation to catch additional bugs that we cant reproduce outside of watching film perfectly.

 

its not an issue of whether you are "good" enough, its a question of why would you choose to waste everyones time. most of the specs currently fall into the 5% rule that bioware promised us. that kind of margin is fine. saying otherwise is frankly stupid.

 

your entire argument is based on being selfish. you want the right to play poorly and not be chastised by your fellow players. "we are clearing content, it doesnt matter" just means you want to put in as little effort as possible and still receive maximum rewards. its not right, nor is it fair.

 

by the way, your very end statement is the biggest crock of bull EVER. by that reasoning humans should never have developed technology because people are stupid.

 

You would have a point about having a difficult time finding what someone (or some people) is doing wrong in a 25, 40, or 72 man raid. That is not TOR though - seriously, there is like 4/5 DPS in an 8 man. That is too much to watch?

 

You really must have a meter to tell you who is underperforming in a 8man?

 

16mans are large enough to assign role leaders - they should be keeping tabs on their subordinates. I could agree that 16mans might be big enough to warrant a slight need for a meter - but I have said in the past on these forums that I would not be opposed to Bioware publishing a meter that became enabled in hardmode/nightmare mode content only.

 

I don't think it should ever be required in normal mode though (or available for that matter).

Edited February 28, 2012 by Raeln

[JediElf]

It's going to be great to see people want absurd DPS numbers for their flashpoints again.

 

"LF DPS for <insert flashpoint here>, DPS must be above 20k"

 

^ look absurd? yes, it is and yes I seen crap like that in WoW all the time.

 

The issue is the above statement will propagate itself as people read that and come to think that is the necessary DPS for clearing flashpoints - even if all that is necessary is 2k.

 

Some tools are better off never released.

 

This!

 

So much this!

 

We don't need this, we just don't. This game will survive, without all the chest thumping/ePeen/my saber is bigger than yours crowd.

 

This isn't a game about numbers, it's a game about a story. For once it's the story, that really counts.

[livnthedream]

You would have a point about having a difficult time finding what someone (or some people) is doing wrong in a 25, 40, or 72 man raid. That is not TOR though - seriously, there is like 4/5 DPS in an 8 man. That is too much to watch?

 

You really must have a meter to tell you who is underperforming in a 8man?

 

16mans are large enough to assign role leaders - they should be keeping tabs on their subordinates. I could agree that 16mans might be big enough to warrant a slight need for a meter - but I have said in the past on these forums that I would not be opposed to Bioware publishing a meter that became enabled in hardmode/nightmare mode content only.

 

I don't think it should ever be required in normal mode though (or available for that matter).

 

where did i ever say anything about critiquing my fellow guildmates. ive been playing with the majority of them long enough that i know they arent poor players. if one of them is having an "offday" we replace or call the raid. also, there is 0 reason to have any sort of class leader in this game, and really wow either with the downsizing. it seems that your whines about being called out are completely to do with pugs, which the only real content you should be pugging is so easy that you will virtually never need a meter to figure out who is underperforming. infact, if you actually read my post i never once said you should be using a meter as a critiquing tool, since honestly its very poor for it. parses in general are poor indicators of performance. there is far too much rng, not only from your own abilities, but any buffs from fellow groupmates. what it is good for is judging and improving your own personal play in terms of using cooldowns, priority, etc. meters, when used correctly, make you a better player.

 

i can understand the fear of exposure, and general laziness, but own up to it. argue that you want the game to turn into a mindless button masher instead of something where you have the tiniest shred of thought.

[JediElf]

i can understand the fear of exposure, and general laziness, but own up to it. argue that you want the game to turn into a mindless button masher instead of something where you have the tiniest shred of thought.

 

That's not what people are talking about at all. That's a straw man argument at best.

 

This game isn't a button mash, it's not overly easy, and it does require a fair amount of thought to play.

 

This is not the game to play if you wish to 'prove yourself' as superior to other players, this is a story driven game, a game about lore and choices...not a place to thump your chest, and show off your purplz.

 

I'll do my very best when I'm in a group, but I won'r be held to some cold numeric standard, and I wont stand to see others cut down, just because they dare, to go outside of the 'Cooke cutter' builds, that will become a sad byproduct of these meters.

Edited February 28, 2012 by JediElf

[Raeln]

where did i ever say anything about critiquing my fellow guildmates. ive been playing with the majority of them long enough that i know they arent poor players. if one of them is having an "offday" we replace or call the raid. also, there is 0 reason to have any sort of class leader in this game, and really wow either with the downsizing. it seems that your whines about being called out are completely to do with pugs, which the only real content you should be pugging is so easy that you will virtually never need a meter to figure out who is underperforming. infact, if you actually read my post i never once said you should be using a meter as a critiquing tool, since honestly its very poor for it. parses in general are poor indicators of performance. there is far too much rng, not only from your own abilities, but any buffs from fellow groupmates. what it is good for is judging and improving your own personal play in terms of using cooldowns, priority, etc. meters, when used correctly, make you a better player.

 

i can understand the fear of exposure, and general laziness, but own up to it. argue that you want the game to turn into a mindless button masher instead of something where you have the tiniest shred of thought.

 

I want the normal mode end-game to be something my slowbus real life friends can participate in. Only one of them has been hardcore in the past like I was - the others just want entertainment. As an example, one of my real life friends plays a DPS warrior in WoW and is usually 20% below what he should be doing for DPS in his gear and spec. He's still my friend though and I still want to do things with him.

 

So yes, I really do want the NORMAL mode content to be faceroll easy so I can play with them. I don't play MMOs for challenge, I play them as an online group activity. If I want a challenge, I'll go buy a single player game or play a FPS that is built for challenge.

 

That said, I'm not going to rob other players of their desire to be challenged - neither is Bioware, that is the sole reason they put nightmare mode in - to provide a challenge. Use it. I've already advocated for meters in nightmare modes. Leave them out of normal mode though.

[livnthedream]

That's not what people are talking about at all. That's a straw man argument at best.

 

This game isn't a button mash, it's not overly easy, and it does require a fair amount of thought to play.

 

This is not the game to play if you wish to 'prove yourself' as superior to other players, this is a story driven game, a game about lore and choices...not a place to thump your chest, and show off your purplz.

 

I'll do my very best when I'm in a group, but I won'r be held to some cold numeric standard, and I wont stand to see others cut down, just because they dare, to go outside of the 'Cooke cutter' builds, that will become a sad byproduct of these meters.

 

you already have cookie cutter builds, all you need to do is look. the only reason it isnt more rampant is because the greater majority of the playerbase is incredibly ignorant. you can look in multiple places on this forum alone and see that. i have never said a thing about proving oneself etc because frankly its a misuse of the tool. however just because a tool can be used incorrectly doesnt mean the tool shouldnt exist, it means we should be educating others in how to use it properly. instead of promoting education you would rather just deny it exists and continue in ignorance, which is not okay.

 

 

I want the normal mode end-game to be something my slowbus real life friends can participate in. Only one of them has been hardcore in the past like I was - the others just want entertainment. As an example, one of my real life friends plays a DPS warrior in WoW and is usually 20% below what he should be doing for DPS in his gear and spec. He's still my friend though and I still want to do things with him.

 

So yes, I really do want the NORMAL mode content to be faceroll easy so I can play with them. I don't play MMOs for challenge, I play them as an online group activity. If I want a challenge, I'll go buy a single player game or play a FPS that is built for challenge.

 

That said, I'm not going to rob other players of their desire to be challenged - neither is Bioware, that is the sole reason they put nightmare mode in - to provide a challenge. Use it. I've already advocated for meters in nightmare modes. Leave them out of normal mode though.

 

this i can understand, and currently its how it is. except that whole part about nightmare actually being a challenge. endgame at the moment is an utter joke for any decent guild. the only ones having issues are the ones misdiagnosing mechanics, which a great deal of would be fixed by meters in the first place. seriously go take a look at the ops/fp forum. the vast majority of the complaints about "bugs" are either actual mechanics or bugs that can be easily overcome just by simple teamwork and situational awareness.

[undiess]

I honestly believe that our server communities can come to terms with helping people IMPROVE. I believe that there are enough good people spread amongst the servers that, instead of using data in a negative way, always using the data in positive ways.

 

Your spec isn't good, so lets help you improve that spec so your dps is better next time.

Your dps was low, your spec is good and your gear is mediocre. I think your rotation needs work. what do you do on trash mobs? what do you do on the boss? Ok, then it's the gear. We'll get you in more flashpoints so you can gear up by the time we do our next operation.

 

The data Recount gives has so much potential to IMPROVE play. I really wish I could see it, to see how I'm doing.

 

I think at this point in time Bioware wouldn't want you seeing that range classes get so much more dps due to the tactical advantage that that range provides. Easier play style combined with a skilled player will yield more. There are so many boss fights where melee have to move a lot, and ranged can keep on dps'ing.

 

Regardless of if I'd like my numbers or not, I want to see that data!

Edited February 28, 2012 by undiess

[JediElf]

I honestly believe that our server communities can come to terms with helping people IMPROVE. I believe that there are enough good people spread amongst the servers that, instead of using data in a negative way, always using the data in positive ways.

 

Your spec isn't good, so lets help you improve that spec so your dps is better next time.

Your dps was low, your spec is good and your gear is mediocre. I think your rotation needs work. what do you do on trash mobs? what do you do on the boss? Ok, then it's the gear. We'll get you in more flashpoints so you can gear up by the time we do our next operation.

 

That's fine for hardcore/nightmare raids.

 

The problem comes when gamers seek to 'improve' everyone around them. This is why you get the little dictators posting recount after every single trash pull, and kicking anyone who is not up to their lofty ideals.

 

Leave the performance anxiety out of Normals ok? If it falls down dead, everyone has done their job.

[undiess]

That's fine for hardcore/nightmare raids.

 

The problem comes when gamers seek to 'improve' everyone around them. This is why you get the little dictators posting recount after every single trash pull, and kicking anyone who is not up to their lofty ideals.

 

Leave the performance anxiety out of Normals ok? If it falls down dead, everyone has done their job.

 

I have performance anxiety even without Recount. More so without seeing the numbers, to be sure. Is my Deception spec doing good? Would Madness really be better?

[livnthedream]

That's fine for hardcore/nightmare raids.

 

The problem comes when gamers seek to 'improve' everyone around them. This is why you get the little dictators posting recount after every single trash pull, and kicking anyone who is not up to their lofty ideals.

 

Leave the performance anxiety out of Normals ok? If it falls down dead, everyone has done their job.

 

then dont group with those people. you have all of the tools at your disposal to handle the situation.

[GOYAFIDO]

Can I just get something to judge my dps while hitting a straw man or practice dummy, change my spec and see if I can improve? Is it ok, if I try to get better? So once I do enter a raid/Operation with guild or friends I am doing my best? no need to assume I am going to belittle someone, its just trying to be the best I can... This "your ok, Im ok" we are all alike thing is fine is thats the type of thing you're into, but I like to excel, and to be reliable for my group/team.

 

So do we have dates on anything? Even the individual combat log or no?

 

Lots of people don't actually want to do well, they just want to "show up" and play for "funsies" and would prefer a participation trophy to first, second or third place trophies. There is nothing wrong with this and it is a valid play style. The irony is in the way people dictate to others about THEIR game play whilst saying they don't want to be dictated TO. Many of the anti-recounters treat the people who want to do well and excel as being in the wrong as if wanting to be as good as possible couldn't possibly be fun.

 

All the crying about game "quality of life" is every bit as ironic because if casual players make up the majority of the player base then the epeeners aren't really relevant to most people's game experience in the first place now are they?

 

There are LOTS of judgmental, name-calling, finger pointing elitists in this thread...just read the anti-recount posts.

Edited February 28, 2012 by GOYAFIDO

[GOYAFIDO]

That's fine for hardcore/nightmare raids.

 

The problem comes when gamers seek to 'improve' everyone around them. This is why you get the little dictators posting recount after every single trash pull, and kicking anyone who is not up to their lofty ideals.

 

Leave the performance anxiety out of Normals ok? If it falls down dead, everyone has done their job.

 

Most people aren't epeeners. No one is forcing you to group with them and with SO many non-epeeners you should have NO trouble finding a group, yes?

[GOYAFIDO]

This!

 

So much this!

 

We don't need this, we just don't. This game will survive, without all the chest thumping/ePeen/my saber is bigger than yours crowd.

 

This isn't a game about numbers, it's a game about a story. For once it's the story, that really counts.

 

Epeeners are a VAST minority and they don't control a damn thing and no one is forced to play with them so why all the emotional and HUGELY ironic "I don't want to be judged or belittled by those stupid ******e elitists."

 

Epeeners can be safely and effectively ignored. Why are so many people giving them undue and unneeded attention?

 

Why all the elitist casuals bashing elitist min/maxers. "What is wrong with you people? It's so sad that you take this game so seriously. Why can't you just be casual and 'HAVE FUN?'" (Why? Because min/maxing IS fun for them and plenty of them think a lot of casuals are sad for being casuals.)

 

No judgement or elitism or belittling there, no way.

 

Again, there are LOTS of judgmental, name-calling, finger pointing elitists in this thread...just read the anti-recount posts.

 

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.

[GOYAFIDO]

Actually the easier and faster people people can get groups,

The more some people start to just not caring about theire performance in the group, They know they can get a new group within minutes.

 

Fun and stress free enviroment is actually based on that players do actually commit to perform theire role adequate while playing in groups.

 

And as it stands now Recount is not needed but when Dual Specc and X-server LFG is in the game i would say it is mandatory in a group enviroment

 

I do have to agree that as long as end game content continues to be tuned for very casual players complete with a loot pinata at the end, recount won't really be necessary.

 

Of course the end game content will continue to be easily farmed and therefore not much fun.

 

I am at best a casual raider but I still like a challenge, not a pinata, and that challenge should sometimes be a real challenge. There is nothing wrong with a beer and pretzels run, but if that's all there is, people fill up on snack food rather too quickly.

[TheSkate]

Deleted by me. Edited February 28, 2012 by TheSkate