Sith Assasins - waste of space

[biowareftw]

like only 3 piece of our gear have crit and surge though. Once u pop out that stuff for champ gear ur chance of critting goes down alot.

 

Perfect example of why the PLAYERS on this class fail.

 

I know it is an amazing concept but what if...just what if...you put different enhancements in those slots.

 

Do you think your crit and surge would go up?

 

I swear shadow/assassin will escape nerfs for years, while classes that are no better are nerfed to the ground because the players of this class are well respresented in this thread...

 

They swear their class sucks, call for nerfs on other classes, and can't even mod a piece of gear, something you should have mastered before level 10...

Edited January 17, 2012 by biowareftw

[maximusedward]

Why roll a pure dps class when other hybrid class that heals can do a much better job than you?

Had I know a class that can heal/tank/dps would outdps a pure dps class I wouldve simply join the EZ train.

Does the SA even have a healing debuff?

[biowareftw]

Why roll a pure dps class when other hybrid class that heals can do a much better job than you?

Had I know a class that can heal/tank/dps would outdps a pure dps class I wouldve simply join the EZ train.

Does the SA even have a healing debuff?

 

Oh god. This thread just gets better and better.

 

Comedy freakin gold.

[Trivialed]

Perfect example of why the PLAYERS on this class fail.

 

I know it is an amazing concept but what if...just what if...you put difference enhancements in those slots.

 

Do you think your crit and surge would go up?

 

I swear shadow/assassin will escape nerfs for years, while classes that are no better are nerfed to the ground because the players of this class are well respresented in this thread...

 

They swear their class sucks, call for nerfs on other classes, and can't even mod a piece of gear, something you should have mastered before level 10...

 

Haha took the words out of my mouth. I hate all the enhancements in the pvp gear so I just switch em out, and voila Im sitting at 40% crit chance and 81% surge.

[pawestman]

Perfect example of why the PLAYERS on this class fail.

 

I know it is an amazing concept but what if...just what if...you put difference enhancements in those slots.

 

Do you think your crit and surge would go up?

 

I swear shadow/assassin will escape nerfs for years, while classes that are no better are nerfed to the ground because the players of this class are well respresented in this thread...

 

They swear their class sucks, call for nerfs on other classes, and can't even mod a piece of gear, something you should have mastered before level 10...

 

Generalizing an entire population based on a thread is pretty bad. There hasn't been a whole lot of threads on assassins or shadows because most people realize they're fine. If you're implying they're overpowered, then you are pretty clueless.

[Laoi]

Hey all

 

does the Sith Assassin feel seriously underpowered to anyone else? I rarely do any major damage from stealth, I dont get close to some of those 300k WZ numbers (I even seen a lvl 21 BH get 150k in one WZ). Also kiting is a major problem as an assassin, Im usually forced to run away. Then theres the other problem of not getting out of combat, it seems to take an eternity.

 

Our stun from opening, Spike, we dont get till level 42 (?!). And it seems to have a weird animation which lifts the person, and hardly forces them down onto the ground. And having to go into a tanking tree for some utility seems stupid.

 

Dunno, maybe its just me but I feel massively underwhelmed by this class and am forced into mainly trying to knock people off bridges and into fires rather than 'assassinate' them.

 

uhm wow ok. ill try to explain this in a mannered way abit further down since u didnt make ur post in a whiny way and therefor deserve a proper answer. but first to all the ppl that replied with craplot of ********.

 

are you *********** serious?!. honestly u gotta be trolling. normally i would say L2P but i think u ppl are beyond a point where all hope is lost

 

ok now to ur post, while sins may not be the most overpowered class in the game we are not anywhere close to beeing underpowered. sin just needs more skill than most other classes which makes it challenging and also fun imo. i assume ur not lvl 50 yet.

while u can still do ok as a sin in wz´s at low levels u get a whole lot more powerful at 50 especially once u start getting some gear.

 

now some tips:

first of all u need a proper spec. for pvp that is deception and dont believe anyone who tells u otherwise. darkness is utterly useless in pvp cos u do no dmg at all and as a tank ur pretty much inferior to the "real" tank classes. especially cos the whole absorb thing is pretty bugged in pvp so dark ward does close to nothing in pvp. u always wanna run surging charge as its one of our main damage abilities. the only feats from darkness u want is 2 points in thrashing blades, 3 points in charge mastery and 1 point in either electric execution or lightning recovery. last one is rly up to personal preference. electric execution gives u abit more dmg on ur charge procs and lightning recovery makes u able to use ur force speed and force shroud abit more often. the other available feats in this tier are useless to you.

from madness u get 3 points in exploitive strikes.

 

regarding deception tree i know alot of ppl dont get insulation and entropic field. while im not entirely decided about the usefulness of entropic field yet since most heavy dmg abilities u get hit by are not area effects id absolutely recommend u to get insulation as armor rating is pretty much the only defensive stat that actually does something in pvp.

the remaining feats are pretty much self explaining. u wanna go for the stuff that hurts =)

 

now lets have a look at playstyle.

sin is all about building up ur procs and using ur stuff when u have high or full stacks of them. f.e. u dont wanna use maul without exploit weakness proc (pretty sure u heard about that one before if u searched this forum abit).

if ur opening from stealth (which u should whenever possible since u get improved force regen rate when coming out of stealth) u wanna open with spike. while its not rly great dmg it allows u to build up voltaic slash stacks for free. (see further down why u want that)

 

u also dont want to waste ur shock cd randomly cos it will do crap dmg then. what u wanna do is use voltaic slash twice, then use recklessness (if up) and then shock, then 2x voltaic slash and shock again with ur 2nd charge of recklessness. it will do ALOT of dmg. by that time u will also have a decent stack of crackling blasts built up which help ur shock dmg aswell. after the 2nd shock u wanna use discharge (will do big dmg cos of crackling blast stack) if ur abit lucky exploit weakness will have procced by then. now if ur good at movement u can get maul in without ccing ur opponent, if ur not that great at movement u can low slash ur target for the 4s mezz so u can move behind and do maul. if the target uses his anti cc - cool - stun him. if u did all this correct most targets will usually be low enough so u can assasinate them for a final blow. if not start with voltaic again. 2x voltaic + shock etcetc. fully geared lvl 50 wont go down in 1 rotation, atleast not till ur on their level of gear.

 

if ur running rly low on force u can use overcharge saber and use saber strike. the double dmg on surging charge procs actually does fairly decent dmg for an attack that costs no force.u only need like 1-2 rounds of attacking till u can go back to normal abilities again.

 

another thing to keep in mind is u are not a tank, pretty obvious but i see alot of ppl every day that seem to forget about that. u cant just blindly charge solo into 5 guys, u will die if u do that. u have the advantage of having stealth. observe the situation and pick ur fights. u always wanna fight on ur terms. now that doesnt mean u cant go into a 1v2 but 1v3+ will be very hard if u dont have a healer with you.

 

now ofc this is theorycrafting and u might have to adjust on the fly depending on what target u fight but it should give u a general idea on how to deal dmg as a sin.

 

now if u find urself in a situation where u did everything right and still think ur not gonna win(yes these situations exist =D doesnnt mean ur class is crap, might just mean ur opponent is heavily outgearing u or u didnt start at full hp or ur opponent got some lucky crits on you etc etc), dont hesitate to use a medpack. if this still isnt enough we can always vanish. in most cases id recommend using force shroud aswell when u vanish cos if u dont some dot will instantly knock u out of stealth again.

 

another little trick (pretty obvious but ill mention it anyway) is especially aslong as ur still undergeared to keep those expertise powerups in mind and pick them up whenever possible, they help ur dmg ALOT.

 

some of this u might or might not know already. i cant tell as i dont know you. so u might facepalm about some things i said and think something like "gosh does he think im stupid" i just tried to explain it very detailed so u can pick out the things u didnt know already and maybe learn something from it. i hope it helps you abit atleast.

 

currently i have 3 pieces of champ gear and 1 piece of cent gear, rest is pretty much lvl 40-45 so im not rly super heavily geared myself yet either but with the rotation i mentioned i can do about 8-10k dmg starting from spike until discharge. depends on crits etc ofc. so if i can do tthat much with my subpar gear so can u and quite honestly i dont think that is underpowered at all.

[biowareftw]

Generalizing an entire population based on a thread is pretty bad. There hasn't been a whole lot of threads on assassins or shadows because most people realize they're fine. If you're implying they're overpowered, then you are pretty clueless.

 

No this is fact buddy. Just look at this thread. The two AC's calling for nerfs non stop are Sage/Sorce and Assassin/shadows. Just take a look at the forums. One AC is the best melee in the game atm (because guard and taunts are so powerful) and the other is a dumbed down shadow priest from WoW that my German Shepherd could play.

 

I would say 1 in 100 assasins/shadows on my realm can even follow a moving target, let alone mod their gear correctly. The funny thing? This is a high population PVP REALM. This isn't even a pve realm where the pvp is even worse. People in this thread don't even know their class can tank...They think they are pure dps. I mean seriously...

 

Then you have the 1 in 500 who absolutely wreck everything one on one and sit back and laugh at the stupidity of the zerged melee class who people rolled so they could look like darth maul.

 

How about all these people learn to mod a piece of gear before flooding the pvp forum with nerf requests. These forums should require you post on your REAL CHARACTER so that people can show and tell you WHY you are failing at the game. They need armory so that people can see that these chicken littles are specced wrong, geared wrong, and should not have a podium to spout their crap 24/7 on crusades to completely nullify other classes, just because they are bad at a game.

[MookieFett]

Perfect example of why the PLAYERS on this class fail.

 

I know it is an amazing concept but what if...just what if...you put different enhancements in those slots.

 

Do you think your crit and surge would go up?

 

I swear shadow/assassin will escape nerfs for years, while classes that are no better are nerfed to the ground because the players of this class are well respresented in this thread...

 

They swear their class sucks, call for nerfs on other classes, and can't even mod a piece of gear, something you should have mastered before level 10...

 

 

you're an idiot. Why would i take out the level 56 expertise mods to put some stupid level 50 mod in there. I would just wear centurion gear

[Knifewrench]

you're an idiot. Why would i take out the level 56 expertise mods to put some stupid level 50 mod in there. I would just wear centurion gear

 

http://bit.ly/z5xpWg

[Zhifu]

uhm wow ok. ill try to explain this in a mannered way abit further down since u didnt make ur post in a whiny way and therefor deserve a proper answer. but first to all the ppl that replied with craplot of ********.

 

are you *********** serious?!. honestly u gotta be trolling. normally i would say L2P but i think u ppl are beyond a point where all hope is lost

 

ok now to ur post, while sins may not be the most overpowered class in the game we are not anywhere close to beeing underpowered. sin just needs more skill than most other classes which makes it challenging and also fun imo. i assume ur not lvl 50 yet.

while u can still do ok as a sin in wz´s at low levels u get a whole lot more powerful at 50 especially once u start getting some gear.

 

now some tips:

first of all u need a proper spec. for pvp that is deception and dont believe anyone who tells u otherwise. darkness is utterly useless in pvp cos u do no dmg at all and as a tank ur pretty much inferior to the "real" tank classes. especially cos the whole absorb thing is pretty bugged in pvp so dark ward does close to nothing in pvp. u always wanna run surging charge as its one of our main damage abilities. the only feats from darkness u want is 2 points in thrashing blades, 3 points in charge mastery and 1 point in either electric execution or lightning recovery. last one is rly up to personal preference. electric execution gives u abit more dmg on ur charge procs and lightning recovery makes u able to use ur force speed and force shroud abit more often. the other available feats in this tier are useless to you.

from madness u get 3 points in exploitive strikes.

 

regarding deception tree i know alot of ppl dont get insulation and entropic field. while im not entirely decided about the usefulness of entropic field yet since most heavy dmg abilities u get hit by are not area effects id absolutely recommend u to get insulation as armor rating is pretty much the only defensive stat that actually does something in pvp.

the remaining feats are pretty much self explaining. u wanna go for the stuff that hurts =)

 

now lets have a look at playstyle.

sin is all about building up ur procs and using ur stuff when u have high or full stacks of them. f.e. u dont wanna use maul without exploit weakness proc (pretty sure u heard about that one before if u searched this forum abit).

if ur opening from stealth (which u should whenever possible since u get improved force regen rate when coming out of stealth) u wanna open with spike. while its not rly great dmg it allows u to build up voltaic slash stacks for free. (see further down why u want that)

 

u also dont want to waste ur shock cd randomly cos it will do crap dmg then. what u wanna do is use voltaic slash twice, then use recklessness (if up) and then shock, then 2x voltaic slash and shock again with ur 2nd charge of recklessness. it will do ALOT of dmg. by that time u will also have a decent stack of crackling blasts built up which help ur shock dmg aswell. after the 2nd shock u wanna use discharge (will do big dmg cos of crackling blast stack) if ur abit lucky exploit weakness will have procced by then. now if ur good at movement u can get maul in without ccing ur opponent, if ur not that great at movement u can low slash ur target for the 4s mezz so u can move behind and do maul. if the target uses his anti cc - cool - stun him. if u did all this correct most targets will usually be low enough so u can assasinate them for a final blow. if not start with voltaic again. 2x voltaic + shock etcetc. fully geared lvl 50 wont go down in 1 rotation, atleast not till ur on their level of gear.

 

if ur running rly low on force u can use overcharge saber and use saber strike. the double dmg on surging charge procs actually does fairly decent dmg for an attack that costs no force.u only need like 1-2 rounds of attacking till u can go back to normal abilities again.

 

another thing to keep in mind is u are not a tank, pretty obvious but i see alot of ppl every day that seem to forget about that. u cant just blindly charge solo into 5 guys, u will die if u do that. u have the advantage of having stealth. observe the situation and pick ur fights. u always wanna fight on ur terms. now that doesnt mean u cant go into a 1v2 but 1v3+ will be very hard if u dont have a healer with you.

 

now ofc this is theorycrafting and u might have to adjust on the fly depending on what target u fight but it should give u a general idea on how to deal dmg as a sin.

 

now if u find urself in a situation where u did everything right and still think ur not gonna win(yes these situations exist =D doesnnt mean ur class is crap, might just mean ur opponent is heavily outgearing u or u didnt start at full hp or ur opponent got some lucky crits on you etc etc), dont hesitate to use a medpack. if this still isnt enough we can always vanish. in most cases id recommend using force shroud aswell when u vanish cos if u dont some dot will instantly knock u out of stealth again.

 

another little trick (pretty obvious but ill mention it anyway) is especially aslong as ur still undergeared to keep those expertise powerups in mind and pick them up whenever possible, they help ur dmg ALOT.

 

some of this u might or might not know already. i cant tell as i dont know you. so u might facepalm about some things i said and think something like "gosh does he think im stupid" i just tried to explain it very detailed so u can pick out the things u didnt know already and maybe learn something from it. i hope it helps you abit atleast.

 

currently i have 3 pieces of champ gear and 1 piece of cent gear, rest is pretty much lvl 40-45 so im not rly super heavily geared myself yet either but with the rotation i mentioned i can do about 8-10k dmg starting from spike until discharge. depends on crits etc ofc. so if i can do tthat much with my subpar gear so can u and quite honestly i dont think that is underpowered at all.

 

Let me sum up the class for you: Our class is like gambling. If everything crits and proc, we win the jackpot. If not, we get beaten by the bouncer.

[DubyooC]

Perfect example of why the PLAYERS on this class fail.

 

I know it is an amazing concept but what if...just what if...you put different enhancements in those slots.

 

Do you think your crit and surge would go up?

 

I swear shadow/assassin will escape nerfs for years, while classes that are no better are nerfed to the ground because the players of this class are well respresented in this thread...

 

They swear their class sucks, call for nerfs on other classes, and can't even mod a piece of gear, something you should have mastered before level 10...

 

 

 

This sounds like win to me LOL. Im not going to complain. I'm loving this class its so win it is not even funny. Let the nubs roll whatever they want bring on the fodder!

[Vunak]

This guy is seriously doing something wrong... at lvl 10 my assassin was hitting 3K+ from Maul....... I did 6.4k in two cooldowns against a fully championed BH in huttball.

[Laoi]

Let me sum up the class for you: Our class is like gambling. If everything crits and proc, we win the jackpot. If not, we get beaten by the bouncer.

 

actually no, ur wrong there.

voltaic = 100% proc

crackling blast = builds up on any melee hit and u dont always need a full stack, 3+ is just fine and u get that very very fast.

the only proc that is luck based is exploit weakness and u dont nesecarily need that to kill most ppl its just nice if it procs cos it makes stuff go down faster but u can do perfectly fine with just voltaic + shock + discharge.

[biowareftw]

you're an idiot. Why would i take out the level 56 expertise mods to put some stupid level 50 mod in there. I would just wear centurion gear

 

[Astarica]

In the Assassin forum, someone said that Operatives should really be called Assassins and we should be called something like Wraiths. Doing so would probably significantly improve how Assassins are played. Despite the name, the class plays more like a tank/short range nuker as opposed to a melee, let alone a stealthy class. If you try to sneak around you'll just end up doing subpar damage since the class derives practically no extra DPS for coming out of stealth.

[Hambunctious]

This guy is seriously doing something wrong... at lvl 10 my assassin was hitting 3K+ from Maul....... I did 6.4k in two cooldowns against a fully championed BH in huttball.

 

That's how it works. The higher level you go, the less bolster helps you. My 4k+ crits have disappeared since the late 20s. At lvl 39, I do about 2/3 the damage, on average, than I did at lower levels.

 

It didn't really occur to me until a level 14 assassin was hammering me with big crits with whatever double strike mirror is. While my shadow strike was hitting it for 1k, and I was like WTH? Then it started making sense.

 

It has also gotten worse in pve.

[Zhifu]

actually no, ur wrong there.

voltaic = 100% proc

crackling blast = builds up on any melee hit and u dont always need a full stack, 3+ is just fine and u get that very very fast.

the only proc that is luck based is exploit weakness and u dont nesecarily need that to kill most ppl its just nice if it procs cos it makes stuff go down faster but u can do perfectly fine with just voltaic + shock + discharge.

 

 

#1 Voltaic x2=30% more dmg of shock

#2 Crackling blast increase crit dmg of shock and discharge...theres no building up. You're probably thinging of static charges which requires a proc from surging charge to proc. Even then surging charge base proc rate is 25%, making it unreliable and worthless.

#3 Most ppl spec madness for chain shock.

#4 You build up 2 Voltaic to increase shock dmg by 30% however, chain shock only has a 45% chance to proc and crit is calculated twice.

#5 Voltaic and trash are basically 2 attacks in 1. Crit chance and chance to be defended again is calculated seperately for each hit.

 

Come back once you know the class.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Zhifu

[pawestman]

No this is fact buddy. Just look at this thread. The two AC's calling for nerfs non stop are Sage/Sorce and Assassin/shadows. Just take a look at the forums. One AC is the best melee in the game atm (because guard and taunts are so powerful) and the other is a dumbed down shadow priest from WoW that my German Shepherd could play.

 

I would say 1 in 100 assasins/shadows on my realm can even follow a moving target, let alone mod their gear correctly. The funny thing? This is a high population PVP REALM. This isn't even a pve realm where the pvp is even worse. People in this thread don't even know their class can tank...They think they are pure dps. I mean seriously...

 

Then you have the 1 in 500 who absolutely wreck everything one on one and sit back and laugh at the stupidity of the zerged melee class who people rolled so they could look like darth maul.

 

How about all these people learn to mod a piece of gear before flooding the pvp forum with nerf requests. These forums should require you post on your REAL CHARACTER so that people can show and tell you WHY you are failing at the game. They need armory so that people can see that these chicken littles are specced wrong, geared wrong, and should not have a podium to spout their crap 24/7 on crusades to completely nullify other classes, just because they are bad at a game.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to an extent. I'm just saying you're over exaggerating a bit. Almost every class is extremely potent in the right hands, but you have to realize that not even 15% of the population posts on the forums. Of that 15%, only about 2-3% complain. Almost all of the people are generally bad which is why you almost NEVER take anything seriously from a forum post.

[Astarica]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to an extent. I'm just saying you're over exaggerating a bit. Almost every class is extremely potent in the right hands, but you have to realize that not even 15% of the population posts on the forums. Of that 15%, only about 2-3% complain. Almost all of the people are generally bad which is why you almost NEVER take anything seriously from a forum post.

 

The problem with Assassins is that if you're bad, either at playing or just have the wrong specs you'll be very bad, while a Commando spamming Grav Rounds is still a respectable player compared to such an Assassin. The learning curve on Assassin is a bit high, and to most people it's not obvious that you should almost always fight as if you're a tank (you can wear DPS gear still) unless you've a pocket healer behind your back. A well played Assassin is usually very visible, as opposed to a well-played Operative would be the one you never see.

[Hambunctious]

It has so many skills, and most of them are very useful in certain situations. There are way too many to key to my nostromo, but fortunately you can string 2 skills together to save space.

 

I still think it has way more skills than are actually needed to do well.

[Bluedeuce]

I really wish the people who actually knew how to play the class would stop posting.

 

Let them buff shadows / sins ...

 

<.<

 

 

>.>

 

Gadamn gentlemen ...

[Hambunctious]

I really wish the people who actually knew how to play the class would stop posting.

 

Let them buff shadows / sins ...

 

<.<

 

 

>.>

 

Gadamn gentlemen ...

 

 

I'm sure it's good with a geared 50, but a bolstered one is not nearly as great as other classes. I do love the escape skills, when ability delay lets them work at the exact time they're needed.

[Knifewrench]

 

Wow, that link as a cookie cutter response outdoes mine. :[

[Laoi]

#1 Voltaic x2=30% more dmg of shock

#2 Crackling blast increase crit dmg of shock and discharge...theres no building up. You're probably thinging of static charges which requires a proc from surging charge to proc. Even then surging charge base proc rate is 25%, making it unreliable and worthless.

#3 Most ppl spec madness for chain shock.

#4 You build up 2 Voltaic to increase shock dmg by 30% however, chain shock only has a 45% chance to proc and crit is calculated twice.

#5 Voltaic and trash are basically 2 attacks in 1. Crit chance and chance to be defended again is calculated seperately for each hit.

 

Come back once you know the class.

 

1) by 100% voltaic i meant 100% to get the proc ofc, pretty obvious but after reading this board for a while i should know better...

 

2) yes sry i meant static charges, my bad. it may only be 25% but it builds up very fast and therefor is reliable enough. if u think its worthless then ur stupid simple as that. not even gonna argue.

 

3) yes most ppl are also retarded

 

4) true but see 3)

 

5) so what? without any defensive cooldowns i dont see how anyone would defend vs an ability with 100%+ accuracy

 

no need to be offensive, its not my fault ur bad at the game and think sins need a buff

[LordKnives]

Sins need a bit of a damage buff, while other, far more op classes (Ops and Scoundrels) need to be nerfed pretty badly. Also, the amount of knock backs and stuns that Sins have compared to other classes seems to be quite lacking. I know that 9 out of 10 times I can't solo a healer and any class that does have healing utility in all specs is a real hassle. Yes I'm 50, yes I have some decent PvP gear, yes I've been pvping for a while.