ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Hello, Recently decided to heal rather then DPS on my scoundrel, which is a shame because I just received full champions. Anywho, I went through with it. I really do see myself performing well in rated warzones when there available. Kind of feel like a restoration druid from WoW with all my HoTs and my ability to escape so easily. Although, I'm a little concerned with my total healing after a warzone match has ended, normally around 200k - 300k atm. Granted this is in full scrapper gear, but I don't see the ending outcome changing all that much. For instance, sages have out healed me numerous times in gear far less superior than mine. Makes competiting very challenging for me... Are sages designed to be the most powerful healer or am I just not doing something right? Also, what's your opinions on Kolto cloud, seems pretty terrible for pvp and a huge energy dump? Right now I'm 31/10/0, I feel stealth detection and stealth level is imba in pvp, but I'm thinking about dropping Kolto cloud altogether and grabbing punch for more damage. Edit, I do realize dropping Kolto cloud is going to nerf my total healing, but I find myself using my scoundrel burst a lot, still very resourceful even as sawbones and punch would add that much more dmg after using shoot first + back blast combo. * please excuse my choice of words and grammer mistakes, currently at work and using my cell, thanks. * Edited January 17, 2012 by ketah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralBlue Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Beyond the fact the Sawbones is under performing in PvP, if you're looking to hybrid you should actually do Sawbones and Dirty Fighting. Shrap Bomb has the ability to prevent enemies from capping objectives and can be used from a fair distance away, and of course being able to use your stun every 30 seconds is a big plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Beyond the fact the Sawbones is under performing in PvP, if you're looking to hybrid you should actually do Sawbones and Dirty Fighting. Shrap Bomb has the ability to prevent enemies from capping objectives and can be used from a fair distance away, and of course being able to use your stun every 30 seconds is a big plus. Yeah the stun is nice, I have decided to spec into it along with having a full sawbones tree. Only problem is you lose sneaky, 15% added movement speed and stealth lvl... It's all preference, but that seems extremely valuable to me. I will give it a shot after respec's drop in price tm. If you'd like to draw me a spec just to compare with what I would do, that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralBlue Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I've been using this setup currently http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701rcfMzhRRzcZZGbbkM.1. The lack of 15% extra movement speed in stealth isn't really a big deal as I don't spend much time hidden. Not having Kolto Cloud is a bit of a pain but considering just how powerful Shrap Bomb is when it comes to Voidstar I think it's a good trade off. However, I'd also recommend not even using Sawbones. It lacks the raw power and utility to really be useful in PvP. Sage and Commando can easily eclipse Sawbones. Edited January 17, 2012 by AdmiralBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I've been using this setup currently http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701rcfMzhRRzcZZGbbkM.1. The lack of 15% extra movement speed in stealth isn't really a big deal as I don't spend much time hidden. Not having Kolto Cloud is a bit of a pain but considering just how powerful Shrap Bomb is when it comes to Voidstar I think it's a good trade off. It's 15% movement speed increase in or out of stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascero Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Beyond the fact the Sawbones is under performing in PvP How so? Honest question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) How so? Honest question Yeah I believe sawbones has great potential, maybe a stronger 31 point talent would make a good pvp spec into a great one. Edit* I dunno exactly why he feels that way about sawbones but I do feel we could use more + healing. I have no idea what makes commandos and sages generate the amount of healing per warzone match that they do; If its aoe healing then scoundrels should get something of the same equivalents, that way when people look at the scoreboard it looks like were actually doing something. Edited January 17, 2012 by ketah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniGanon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah the stun is nice, I have decided to spec into it along with having a full sawbones tree. Only problem is you lose sneaky, 15% added movement speed and stealth lvl... Or you could just lose 5%... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=181392 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Or you could just lose 5%... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=181392 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffMzhRRzZ0cZGbbkM.1 Going to try this and go without improved stealth and increased movement speed ;(. Will see how things go. Very interesting spec, will most definitely give it a whirl sometime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papino Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffMzhRRzZ0cZGbbkM.1 Going to try this and go without improved stealth and increased movement speed ;(. Will see how things go. Very interesting spec, will most definitely give it a whirl sometime soon. I've been using that exact build lately and I'm loving it. Shrap Bomb is so much more useful than Kolto Cloud. I also consider Med Screen to be terrible as well. In PvP, you never have time to benefit from the 15% bonus healing Defensive Screen grants because it always breaks a second after you activate it. Sometimes I miss having Accomplished Sawbones but it was really only useful on Underworld Medicine and I feel I can live without it. Here are a couple screenshots I took yesterday and today of the warzone score screen after a couple good games. I don't always run with a premade, some of them are solo queue and duo queue. http://imgur.com/a/zhphq#0 Currently at Valor Rank 56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekrazo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I've been using that exact build lately and I'm loving it. Shrap Bomb is so much more useful than Kolto Cloud. I also consider Med Screen to be terrible as well. In PvP, you never have time to benefit from the 15% bonus healing Defensive Screen grants because it always breaks a second after you activate it. Sometimes I miss having Accomplished Sawbones but it was really only useful on Underworld Medicine and I feel I can live without it. Here are a couple screenshots I took yesterday and today of the warzone score screen after a couple good games. I don't always run with a premade, some of them are solo queue and duo queue. http://imgur.com/a/zhphq#0 Currently at Valor Rank 56. I was using something very close to that too. I do agree that you can put up some nice damage numbers with the dots and have utility. You achieved my void star goal of 200k damage 400k healing which I keep falling short of. Nice job. I went to a 25/16/0 build recently. The one thing I really like about it is disappearing act not debuffing my healing. That's really nice. And I like the single target burst. I think both specs have really nice aspects. I don't agree that sawbones is too weak in pvp. Sages may honestly be better healers, but I think we bring a lot of interesting things to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papino Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I was using something very close to that too. I do agree that you can put up some nice damage numbers with the dots and have utility. You achieved my void star goal of 200k damage 400k healing which I keep falling short of. Nice job. I went to a 25/16/0 build recently. The one thing I really like about it is disappearing act not debuffing my healing. That's really nice. And I like the single target burst. I think both specs have really nice aspects. I don't agree that sawbones is too weak in pvp. Sages may honestly be better healers, but I think we bring a lot of interesting things to the table. I was actually planning on trying out that build in 5 days or so once my respec costs reset. Disappearing Act not debuffing healing definitely sounds awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I've been using that exact build lately and I'm loving it. Shrap Bomb is so much more useful than Kolto Cloud. I also consider Med Screen to be terrible as well. In PvP, you never have time to benefit from the 15% bonus healing Defensive Screen grants because it always breaks a second after you activate it. Sometimes I miss having Accomplished Sawbones but it was really only useful on Underworld Medicine and I feel I can live without it. Here are a couple screenshots I took yesterday and today of the warzone score screen after a couple good games. I don't always run with a premade, some of them are solo queue and duo queue. http://imgur.com/a/zhphq#0 Currently at Valor Rank 56. Sick stuff man.. Yeah I decided to spec that when I got off work. I have no problem collecting medals and be able to deal tons more dmg at the same time now. I don't even notice Kolto Cloud missing... Although I do miss having Accomplished Sawbones a lot. Oh well, I up'd my dmg by a blind fold and I gain a nice 30 secs stun along with a the speed increase. This is so far the most imba sawbones spec I've come across. Currently 55 valor and going to bed didn't make the 60 valor before the weekly reset, boooo! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketah Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I was using something very close to that too. I do agree that you can put up some nice damage numbers with the dots and have utility. You achieved my void star goal of 200k damage 400k healing which I keep falling short of. Nice job. I went to a 25/16/0 build recently. The one thing I really like about it is disappearing act not debuffing my healing. That's really nice. And I like the single target burst. I think both specs have really nice aspects. I don't agree that sawbones is too weak in pvp. Sages may honestly be better healers, but I think we bring a lot of interesting things to the table. Yeah I tried that spec it has great mobility. I seem to like both equally and can't seem to decide on which atm. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffMzhRRzZMI0Rdk.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralBlue Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) How so? Honest question A lot of the burst healing potential of Sawbones is tied up in the ever so stupid Upper Hand mechanic. Not only is Upper Hand a consumable charge but it also offers increased healing. Which means there's a push to maintain at least one charge at all times and this creates a situation where there's only one practical charge of Upper Hand to be used. There's also a push to maintain Pugnacity at all times and as it consumes an Upper Hand this can put you in a bad situation fast. So in order to burst heal you end up in this cycle that looks like: Underworld Medicine, Kolto Pack/Emergency Pack, Underworld Medicine, etc. Doing this you'll quickly find yourself tapped for energy and with no real time to place your HoTs. If you stop to apply your HoTs you can waste up to three GDCs, and in that time someone could die without ever seeing an impacts from the HoTs. Also, if they die you can't get Upper Hand charges from Slow Release Mepback. So, in this situation, which isn't all that uncommon, the opportunity cost of your HoTs is too high when compared to using the rotation described. None of that is to say Sawbones is bad, it's not at all; but under conditions where burst healing is needed we can often find ourselves wanting. Of course, you can always tell burst healing to take a hike and only use your HoTs, but it's not really viable as we only have two effective HoTs (Diagnostic Scan is a cruel joke). Either way, it feels like adjustments need to be made. Either convert Kolto Pack or Emergency Medpack to a HoT, outright buff Slow Release and Kolto Cloud, or change the Upper Hand system to be less restrictive. Edited January 17, 2012 by AdmiralBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuteypie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyone who have been testing the action point returns from speccing the 25/0/16 spec and critting dots? Considering this to be viable for pve and pvp, if its not to much of a gcd drain to have vital shot ticking on bosses. While also having enough crittage from aoe dots in pvp to maintain a decent rotation with UM+EM for better sustained healing and gcd saveage, rather than clicking out hots on ppl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekrazo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyone who have been testing the action point returns from speccing the 25/0/16 spec and critting dots? Considering this to be viable for pve and pvp, if its not to much of a gcd drain to have vital shot ticking on bosses. While also having enough crittage from aoe dots in pvp to maintain a decent rotation with UM+EM for better sustained healing and gcd saveage, rather than clicking out hots on ppl. It's interesting but it would be brutal to give up the 3% healing 9% self healing from the bottom of scoundrel in pvp. It might work if you have guard and never get targetted. I agree that both 25/16/0 and 25/3/13 are cool in their own ways. I really like the dirty fighting hybrid. The scrapper one is less awesome in some ways but is really excellent in specific situations. I think I like the scrapper hybrid for solo and with a friend or two but the dirty fighting is probably better for full group pvp. Post here if you try out that other build as I'm curious how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouVee Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I've been using that exact build lately and I'm loving it. Shrap Bomb is so much more useful than Kolto Cloud. I also consider Med Screen to be terrible as well. In PvP, you never have time to benefit from the 15% bonus healing Defensive Screen grants because it always breaks a second after you activate it. Sometimes I miss having Accomplished Sawbones but it was really only useful on Underworld Medicine and I feel I can live without it. Here are a couple screenshots I took yesterday and today of the warzone score screen after a couple good games. I don't always run with a premade, some of them are solo queue and duo queue. http://imgur.com/a/zhphq#0 Currently at Valor Rank 56. What gear do you go for then? Field Medic or something else? I'm struggling with what PVP gear set to go for. I like healing and wanna PVP and PVE with a sawbones spec, but have read that Alacrity isn't that great. Curious what you went with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papino Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) What gear do you go for then? Field Medic or something else? I'm struggling with what PVP gear set to go for. I like healing and wanna PVP and PVE with a sawbones spec, but have read that Alacrity isn't that great. Curious what you went with. I have a full Champion Enforcer set and I'm a piece or two away from a full Champion Field Medic set. I only had around 3 Field Medic pieces when I started healing (I used to be Scrapper specced). At first I wasn't really happy with most of the gear having alacrity because I was more interested in crit/surge but the more I play, the more I love alacrity. With my current playstyle I multitask so much that having reduced casting time on Underworld Medicine is necessary to keep my teammates, as well as myself, alive. Edited January 18, 2012 by Papino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuteypie Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have a full Champion Enforcer set and I'm a piece or two away from a full Champion Field Medic set. I only had around 3 Field Medic pieces when I started healing (I used to be Scrapper specced). At first I wasn't really happy with most of the gear having alacrity because I was more interested in crit/surge but the more I play, the more I love alacrity. With my current playstyle I multitask so much that having reduced casting time on Underworld Medicine is necessary to keep my teammates, as well as myself, alive. Ive noticed this aswell, ~200ish alacrity is really nice to have everything on same timer as gcd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thryos Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Diagnostic Scan is a cruel joke Just started Scoundrel healing for a bit, what makes you say this? Sure, it isn't a ton of healing, but if I roll 2x slow release a kolto cloud, and then diagnostic I actually heal for a decent amount while returning a good deal of energy. I've had HoTs rolling and diagnostic healed my friend through a couple of 50s before, with a few Kolto Packs tossed in. Is 250 healing a crit per second with 60% crit chance so bad? It seems tolerable to me with the energy return. Also, a lot of ignorant people interrupt it. Slow release tics every what? 3 seconds I think? And it is only ticking for 1000 a crit, with diagnostic healing for ~700 (depending on crits, I'm assuming 2/3 crit) in the same amount of time, though obviously weakened by the channel time. It just seems to me that it helps make energy a bit more manageable, and allows me to roll a lot of HoTs. Edited January 18, 2012 by Thryos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekrazo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Slow release tics every what? 3 seconds I think? And it is only ticking for 1000 a crit, with diagnostic healing for ~700 (depending on crits, I'm assuming 2/3 crit) in the same amount of time, though obviously weakened by the channel time. It just seems to me that it helps make energy a bit more manageable, and allows me to roll a lot of HoTs. I'd rather manage energy with emergency med pack off hot ticks or use my auto-attack to do a couple thousand damage in the same time I could heal <1000. Yes, the regen is slightly better, but it's also only slightly better than standing there doing nothing. I don't normally have problems with energy in pvp if I spread my hots for UH procs, crutch on EMP, pugnacity on cooldown and use cool head if I'm really screwed. I can only think of a few times I've needed cool head when it was on CD. Usually it's because I was trying to mix in AOE damage. I used to have massive energy problems before I got the hang of it. Unfortunately, if you're constantly out of energy in pvp, you're probably doing it wrong. Scoundrel healing is pretty complex compared to any healing class I've played in any other MMO. I try to pre-hot so when things get heavy I have plenty of UH procs for EMP in between underworld medicine to keep my energy up. Also, I spam the hell out of EMP on someone sub 30%. TBH I will let a pug get low just so I can get multiple free heals off if I think I am going to go below 60% energy. Edited January 18, 2012 by thekrazo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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