PigeonSaurus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) My companion takes more agro then my Sith Juggernaut Immortal. The companion of a healer class take much more agro then me. I function as an off-tank in such a situation, not as the main tank. In most situations I function as an offtank. On one vs one encounters, my companion takes 50% of the damage, and I take 50%. If I taunt when my companion takes agro, I loose more health and my companion doesn't do more damage. Obviously, Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not designed to function as a main tank! Its great fun to play. Yet, Considering this is a roleplaying game, I do not enjoy it that my companion is called slave and I'm called Lord. It should be the other way around! My endurance feels some what equal to my companion's endurance in battles, my companion does more damage, my companion takes most of the aggro. Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not the main tank... Sith Juggernaut Immortal is the Companion. Edited January 17, 2012 by PigeonSaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilChookie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You must be doing it wrong. I levelled 1-50 as Immortal Juggernaut, and I had no problem keeping agro from my companion, as well as the crazy DPS Sith Assassin I levelled with and his companion as well. What level are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatzahMaul Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I have no problem with taking aggro from my companion or making sure I always have aggro from my companion. Guard works wonders. Edited January 17, 2012 by MatzahMaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banivisa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah uh Jugg has some issues with this if you're trying to solo Heroic 4's. Other then that at 50 the only issues I have are when 2 dps decide to attack seperate targets then the one I'm on. Which was the same issue I've had since 10 aoe splash isn't much of an issue since 30. Tanking HM FPs now and have few aggro issues, sure I think I have to work harder then maybe a BH but it's all doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Maybe *your* immo jugg isn't a tank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTetevor Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Other player's tank companions will pull threat off you simply because they spam their taunt. If that player turns off their tank companion's taunt, problem solved. If you're still having threat issues, make good use of Guard, use force scream and smash on cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xargyn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Check and make sure you've activated your tanking form. If you're not in Soresu form, you're not going to generate enough aggro to tank with. Edited January 17, 2012 by Xargyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmorn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) If you are having problems tanking or threat management, it could be any number of things causing this problem. What Form/Stance are you useing? Are you keeping your gear updated? How are your points allocated? What skill rotation are you using? Go here for details on playing a Sith Warrior. Sith Warrior Guide This guide will answer all your questions and provide valuable information on making your Sith Warrior the best Tank it can be. Please don't take this the wrong way, but typically it is not the class, but the player not taking the time to learn there class. Edited January 17, 2012 by Dalmorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bambua Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Other player's tank companions will pull threat off you simply because they spam their taunt. If that player turns off their tank companion's taunt, problem solved. This right here is the answer. If they have taunt set to auto cast it doesn't matter how much threat you have for those few seconds it's going to be on the companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) My companion takes more agro then my Sith Juggernaut Immortal. Your threat levels go higher when you hit 14 and get your tanking form. The companion of a healer class take much more agro then me. I function as an off-tank in such a situation, not as the main tank. Inquisitors and Operators start with tank companions. A lot of them don't turn their companion's taunt off when they group. It's a hassle for all tanks, not just Juggernauts. In most situations I function as an offtank. On one vs one encounters, my companion takes 50% of the damage, and I take 50%. If I taunt when my companion takes agro, I loose more health and my companion doesn't do more damage. No, that's the strategy you decided to use. Juggernauts have to be very aggressive tanks in order to be successful. You have interrupts, a stun, and high defensive cooldowns. If you're taking as much damage as you say, it's because you're letting yourself take damage. Obviously, Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not designed to function as a main tank! See: Other replies in this thread. Its great fun to play. Yet, Considering this is a roleplaying game, I do not enjoy it that my companion is called slave and I'm called Lord. It should be the other way around! It's not. Practice more. My endurance feels some what equal to my companion's endurance in battles, my companion does more damage, my companion takes most of the aggro. You let your companion take the aggro, you let yourself take too much damage. It's all you, man. Once more, aggressive tanking is what's called for. You can't take it easy with this class, it's hit hard or go home. Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not the main tank... Sith Juggernaut Immortal is the Companion. You really need to either put it in the work, or roll another tank. Edited January 17, 2012 by sanctified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretorian Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Obviously, Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not designed to function as a main tank! Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not the main tank... Sith Juggernaut Immortal is the Companion. These two sentences are really entertaining. "I can't play this class so it must be something wrong with it!!" Why are people so afraid of asking for help in a serious manner? It's no shame to fail at a class if you realize it and seek aid. I to found the jugg frustrating but seeing that most players DON'T have the problems I had it had to be me who played it the wrong way. So I read the guides and changed my game play accordingly. Problem solved and now things go much smoother. A much more humble approach from the OP would have been "I can't seem to get the hang of the jugg. I can't keep aggro off my companion. Any one that can tell me what I'm doing wrong?" Then you will probably get the help you need without the flame posts about how "you suck - reroll!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBroken Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This game does not have a classic ot like wow. In a raid setting you will only have one tank or you will never beat the enrage timers on hard and nightmare mode. And like many others have said you are obviously doing it wrong. I have no problem staying alive or keeping threat. In fact i rarely ever died on my way to 50 once i got quinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz_Kahuna Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Please tell me you're in Shoresu form and this post isn't a giant waste of time... Edited January 17, 2012 by Baz_Kahuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloodOver Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As you are a Jug then you are using Quinn for healing. Quin does not have any taunt abilities. He does have two stances that reduce his threat by 25%. By default they are not enabled and they typically reset at random times (sometimes after jumping off speeder, sometimes not etc.). With Quinn it is also good to hit his attack button when you find the main target you are going to kill. This will keep him on that target as he will use his blaster a bit. Other than that the typical tanking rules apply; try to group up the mobs and use an AOE to keep a bit of threat on them. Put guard on Quinn and you have it! I am not sure as to your level, but the later ones will will find that aggro is not an issue with the Jug. - Passion gives me strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Itharius Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Go read the stickied Phottek guide, OP. Then you'll hold aggro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodcharged Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The only issues I have so far(currently level 30) is hold threat on trash pulls if the dps either don't give me time to get smash up and build some threat or each one attacks a different target. My question is does AoE threat get a little better after 32 when you get Sweeping Slash? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloodOver Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The only issues I have so far(currently level 30) is hold threat on trash pulls if the dps either don't give me time to get smash up and build some threat or each one attacks a different target. My question is does AoE threat get a little better after 32 when you get Sweeping Slash? Sweeping Slash will be your saving grace for trash. Two sweeps and a smash and they are all yours. Just use Sweeping after that as a rage dump. Once you have instant force choke you will be able to stop a mob from getting away. Abilities that you gain from leveling from here on out are all going to help you tank great. Enjoy the ride! Edited January 17, 2012 by FloodOver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSahl Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My companion takes more agro then my Sith Juggernaut Immortal. The companion of a healer class take much more agro then me. I function as an off-tank in such a situation, not as the main tank. In most situations I function as an offtank. On one vs one encounters, my companion takes 50% of the damage, and I take 50%. If I taunt when my companion takes agro, I loose more health and my companion doesn't do more damage. Obviously, Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not designed to function as a main tank! Its great fun to play. Yet, Considering this is a roleplaying game, I do not enjoy it that my companion is called slave and I'm called Lord. It should be the other way around! My endurance feels some what equal to my companion's endurance in battles, my companion does more damage, my companion takes most of the aggro. Sith Juggernaut Immortal is not the main tank... Sith Juggernaut Immortal is the Companion. I solo tank Eternity Vault (normal mode as only tank) with ease and I main tank Eternity Vault on hardmode aswell without any problems whatsoever. So surely you are doing something wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This right here is the answer. If they have taunt set to auto cast it doesn't matter how much threat you have for those few seconds it's going to be on the companion. I find it "funny" how companion NPCs have better taunts on a shorter CD with, apparently, additional threat to them than my tank specced Juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I had nothing but problems with a lot of things on my jugg until about level 40 and switching to the Vengeance tree in DPS gear, but keeping aggro...was not one of them. 18 hotkeys for what equates into being the bare minimum for using my character and still having to manually click on 5 other situational powers when I want to use them? That's my point of grief with juggernaut. Holding aggro though...I dunno. I rolled with Vette or Quinn depending on what I needed to do; mostly Quinn from Belsavis on, I suppose, and still Quinn now that I tear things up quite nicely on my own, but...huh. Can't agree with the OP's position on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefmachine Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Kind of tired of people crying about juggs before either properly assessing themselves, their gear , setup etc. they just instantly blame the class. Post like these nearly made me not choose the juggernaut mainly because I thought the class was really broken. But I love tanking so I decided to bite the bullet and actually its been amazing. Level 25. tanking FPs with the average dps ( attacking separate targets etc) healers going afk mid fight... the works basically and I have been having smooth runs more often than not. True its a lot of buttons and a lot to pay attention to.. but then again in the hands of a good player you have better control over things IMO. Powertechs are like auto transmission Juggs are like Stick shift.. /generalization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Kind of tired of people crying about juggs before either properly assessing themselves, their gear , setup etc. they just instantly blame the class. Post like these nearly made me not choose the juggernaut mainly because I thought the class was really broken. But I love tanking so I decided to bite the bullet and actually its been amazing. Level 25. tanking FPs with the average dps ( attacking separate targets etc) healers going afk mid fight... the works basically and I have been having smooth runs more often than not. True its a lot of buttons and a lot to pay attention to.. but then again in the hands of a good player you have better control over things IMO. Powertechs are like auto transmission Juggs are like Stick shift.. /generalization Kinda like that, really. Tanks don't feel very tanky to me on here in general, but that's my own mileage. Tanked for years in WoW and other MMO's, and it's just...different in ways I'm not liking so much here. Does it work? I'unno, seems people are making do even though I'm pretty sure the tank stats are marginalized, but that just inclines me to ultimately think I'm not gonna play a tank on here. Doesn't mesh with my mojo. Doesn't feel tanky enough for me, and 12s duration CD's with 3 minute cooldowns just annoy me. Again, my mileage. People seem to be making it work, so power to 'em. I'll roll DPS. I seem to be able to tank almost as well if I simply flip Soresu on despite being in DPS gear and Veng spec'd anyway since my HP bar and passive armor rating's damage mitigation are the most relevant, reliable tank stats. Or maybe there's a whole way about tanking in TOR that tanking elsewhere's just got me in the wrong gear to easily grasp. Whichever it is, aggro ain't the problem in my experience. And that's all I gots to say 'bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) People tend to leave taunt on their tank companions, they might have them out to tank as well, if you don't want them to do that ask them to turn taunt off their companions and put them in a dps role. A smart dps would not taunt a target off of the tank for any reason whatsoever. If they had added threat into this game which I think they did, it's more of an invisible stat that you build up among the enemies. Mind you aggro and threat are two different things. Aggro means that the target's attention is on a particular target, threat is the potential to draw attention. Taunting will completely override threat meters and will take aggro regardless of how much threat you built up. If my memory serves me right in other games taunting usually duplicates the threat levels of the one with the highest to the taunter. Here's an example it would be like this. These numbers are nothing but measures not the actual numbers in the game. 1. Tank built 500 threat on the target, a dps built 200 threat on the same target. 2. DPS taunts the target. Now the dps has 500 threat as well. Tank still has 500 threat. And the enemy is now attacking the dps. Over time the dps will drop back to 200 threat. 3. Tank taunts the target back. He has 500 threat on the target the dps continues to have 200 threat on the target. These numbers will always fluctuate, the dps can get the same threat level as the tank through a taunt but his threat level will decline eventually as long as he avoids using threat gaining abilities and the tank continues to perform threat gaining abilities. So what's the point of threat? In case nobody did taunt (and most smart tanks leave their taunts as an emergency backup), the tank, dps and healer will be building threat but as long as the tank has most threat he will keep enemies on him as long as nobody is taunting. Edited January 17, 2012 by ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefmachine Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Kinda like that, really. Tanks don't feel very tanky to me on here in general, but that's my own mileage. Tanked for years in WoW and other MMO's, and it's just...different in ways I'm not liking so much here. Does it work? I'unno, seems people are making do even though I'm pretty sure the tank stats are marginalized, but that just inclines me to ultimately think I'm not gonna play a tank on here. Doesn't mesh with my mojo. Doesn't feel tanky enough for me, and 12s duration CD's with 3 minute cooldowns just annoy me. Again, my mileage. People seem to be making it work, so power to 'em. I'll roll DPS. I seem to be able to tank almost as well if I simply flip Soresu on despite being in DPS gear and Veng spec'd anyway since my HP bar and passive armor rating's damage mitigation are the most relevant, reliable tank stats. Or maybe there's a whole way about tanking in TOR that tanking elsewhere's just got me in the wrong gear to easily grasp. Whichever it is, aggro ain't the problem in my experience. And that's all I gots to say 'bout that. I do agree with that tanks aren't feeling as tanky to me yet.. I think because this game is more leaning on CC instead of having super resilient tanks. It does make you feel more vulnerable than in other games when people arent using CC. Basically opposite of WOW where its just about being as unkillable as possible and instead its about being able to stand up long enough with the help of friends CC lol. I still like charging in first though wouldn't have it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webel Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Threat Really isnt a problem with Juggs its the pulls themselves that dont help dont know bout anyone else but damnit every pull or boss has too many shooters that like too be just out of range from each other so your AOE abilities dont hit everyone and you have too pick and choose and even if u interupt them they have some other skill which is ranged they use and dont move but once u can gather them all up Sweeping slashes and smashes they all stay together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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