XiliX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Datacrons have driven me to swearing a few times. I just don't bother to get them now unless they are real easy. I hate jumping puzzles in almost all games. This ^ Nar Shadaa & Hutta drove me up the wall. Don't need that frustration. Sometimes jump works great when I move + jump. Othertimes it works by doing it the opposite. Have found no consistency w/the jumping what so ever. If it was, I could train myself to do it 1 way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHeissi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This ^ Nar Shadaa & Hutta drove me up the wall. Don't need that frustration. Sometimes jump works great when I move + jump. Othertimes it works by doing it the opposite. Have found no consistency w/the jumping what so ever. If it was, I could train myself to do it 1 way. I hate precision jumping in games which were not really designed to perform these jumps. There is a reason why good plattformers have extremly tight controls. Try plattformers with sluggish movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotardNosef Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've found double-tapping spacebar whenever I'm trying to do one of those sorts of pipe jumps helps tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Didn't feel like a bug to me...felt more like missing the pipe and taking a ton of damage hitting the ground and going around again. As others have said...it's supposed to be a challenge, not a gimme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiliX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Didn't feel like a bug to me...felt more like missing the pipe and taking a ton of damage hitting the ground and going around again. As others have said...it's supposed to be a challenge, not a gimme. Nothing wrong w/a challenge. Gives you a sense of accomplishment, but there comes a point where it just isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I agree with this, the jump mechanic is awful and the controls in the game aren't tight enough to warrant this kind of jumping. Don't read that incorrectly - I have no problems with complex jumping to get datacrons. What I have a problem with is how unresponsive jumping is in this game. I understand that it works if you learn to time it right, which I have, but it was needlessly frustrating. When I press jump, I want to jump, the half second delay to do the "bend the knees" animation is a huge flaw in the jumping mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I highlighted the operating word in your post. This is a game. Requiring players to perform difficult feats of coordination to acquire bonuses in a game is a long held tradition. Really, you could take this back to the early days of Atari & Nintendo if you wanted to vent your rage properly. Don't blame BioWare for including something in a game that millions of people have enjoyed over the last two decades. And a few, uncoordinated, impatient players have hated. Accept which camp you fall into and move on. Posting this is "bugged" is incorrect. I understand the difficulty involved; I have acquired these Datacrons. They are not bugged. Difficult yes, but not bugged. I don't think you get what he is saying at all. There is a huge difference in saying it has to be difficult, and the fact that the physics are not working right. I've experienced this myself many times. I love to explore, and I've been to places most havent. Like the open unfinished area on tython you can access from the mountains next to the forward base. Not much there, just a big open area where it looks like they started to build something, but then stopped. Jumping doesn't always work. You will start the jump, then stop. It doesn't just happen on pipes either. That isn't about timing, that is a bug. A very annoying one at that. I think pretty much anyone that's climbed the walls has seen this bug in action before. It can be used in certain areas to get to places that are supposed to not be accessible. No advantage to it, and most just show the background. A few will show you some open areas that might be something one day like the one on tython. I have no problem with timing, knowing when to jump is cool. When I jump and my character just falls though, well that's an issue. That is not timing at all, that is a bug. I guess it's best described as if you started the jump, but for whatever reason the upward arc gets canceled so that the game thinks you completed the jump and drops you. The problem is you haven't really moved, and you end up falling a little bit in front of where you started the jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) What I would like to point out is that the platforming is different based on your class. I've done datacrons on a smuggler, trooper and jedi knight. The smuggler and trooper are the same level so I will often do them one right after the other. The smuggler platforms much much easier then the trooper. Both are female body type 1. But the smuggler can get to a platforming datacron in about 5 minutes while the trooper will take more like 30. For some reason, even with the same player, same settings, same computer...the smuggler platforms better. The jedi knight falls somewhere in the middle. It's rather annoying, either we should have some info somewhere that details this...like heavy armor makes it harder to get around or something...or all classes should platform the same. I've found this to be true, somewhat. I mentioned on a similar thread about how my husband noticed a difference in how my female body type 2 smuggler jumped, and how his male body type 3..? the big guy? trooper jumps. Only it was opposite for him, he felt the trooper was much more solid and handled better than my spazzy character. Where my smugg would keep moving forward for no reason, or stumble in mid-air. And he would have have to practice many, many times to be able to make the jumps with my smuggler, and only a few times with his character. Now, he is way better at getting these datacrons than I am, because I give up after 30 minutes or so, and he always gets them eventually. But when he goes back to his guy, he has to unlearn mine and relearn his. Or he could be crazy. Or he could be trying to make me feel better about being so bad at it! But I doubt he would waste so much time failing the jumps on my smuggler if he didn't have to. (For the record, I've never tried jumping on his character to make the comparison myself. I should, but I just haven't needed to yet.) Edited February 2, 2012 by grania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrot Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I agree with the OP. There are times where what you see and what the engines sees as the edge of a pipe are different. be it collision detection or what you hit jump and you don't; instead you stutter and fall. Frustrating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baracca Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 after the pipe one on hutta i have up trying to get them - jumping is awful on pipes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So the combined knowledge of this thread is to: - Jump backwards whilst naked using a 3rd party macro You couldn't make it up! (probably works though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockbeard Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 From fiddling with it a while myself it seems to me that its a delay in the jumping. When moving and jumping the jump doesn't seem to happen as quickly as when standing still and jumping. This leads to running further then intended and falling because of it. I may be wrong but that's what seems to be happening to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 From what I've seen, there's like a step or so at the beginning of the move animation that basically "eats" your jump input. If you're in a tight space (such as on a pipe) and move then quickly jump, you end up just hopping off the edge. (maybe at one point in design you wouldn't just walk off the edge of stuff and had to manually hop down via that control input? It's almost what it feels like.) So to get a good forward jump, you have to either have more room so you can jump later/after you've gotten up to speed, or jump THEN (and very quickly) try moving forward. (and it has to be quickly, this game uses realisticish flight trajectory, so you have very little ability to start moving in a direction after your airborne.) One thing I've also noticed, there seems to be some sort of variable for how high you jump. Even on relatively straightfoward jumps I'll miss it the first few times because I simply don't jump high enough, then eventually *boing* and I'll clear it easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Fire up the old nintendo and practice some mario brothers, it'll come back, just like riding a bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So the combined knowledge of this thread is to: - Jump backwards whilst naked using a 3rd party macro You couldn't make it up! (probably works though) rofl Well we can't even agree on whether jumping is working as intended or not. I apologize for saying this, but as we are all aware, there are many, many ..vastly many.. itty bitty little malfunctions, in the game. It's hard to tell anymore if something is working the way they wanted it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeia Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've found this to be true, somewhat. I mentioned on a similar thread about how my husband noticed a difference in how my female body type 2 smuggler jumped, and how his male body type 3..? the big guy? trooper jumps. Only it was opposite for him, he felt the trooper was much more solid and handled better than my spazzy character. Where my smugg would keep moving forward for no reason, or stumble in mid-air. And he would have have to practice many, many times to be able to make the jumps with my smuggler, and only a few times with his character. Now, he is way better at getting these datacrons than I am, because I give up after 30 minutes or so, and he always gets them eventually. But when he goes back to his guy, he has to unlearn mine and relearn his. Or he could be crazy. Or he could be trying to make me feel better about being so bad at it! But I doubt he would waste so much time failing the jumps on my smuggler if he didn't have to. (For the record, I've never tried jumping on his character to make the comparison myself. I should, but I just haven't needed to yet.) maybe it is female vs male characters instead...I realized when reading yours that my smuggler is actually male while the other two are female. I hate the stumbling in mid-air! I'm thinking "finally, my silly trooper made the jump! only to have her freeze in mid-air and then end up on the ground. Maybe I should roll a male trooper and see if the difference is the gender of the character where I was thinking it was the class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 maybe it is female vs male characters instead...I realized when reading yours that my smuggler is actually male while the other two are female. I hate the stumbling in mid-air! I'm thinking "finally, my silly trooper made the jump! only to have her freeze in mid-air and then end up on the ground. Maybe I should roll a male trooper and see if the difference is the gender of the character where I was thinking it was the class... I think it's worth looking into, at least. If you or anyone else wants to test the differences between body types and genders, be sure to let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithLordDrew Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have most of my alt slots full on the three servers that I play on. The only body type I have not made is type 4. And I have not seen any difference with jumping to datacrons on any of my alts. (both male and female) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon- Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think I know which Nar Shaddaa jump people are talking about, and yeah that one sucks. Sometimes turning off sprint makes a jump easier. Nar Shaddaa (Republic only) Shadow Town Access Tunnels horrifying experience if your timing is off. You stand on a pipe and have to jump up the bend of an other pipe so high your first thought is "No way!" If you press the move forward key to late you won't land on top, but instead bounce of the pipe and being pushed to side with no chance to compensate, causing you to fall all the way down. Having to start over add insult to the injury you may even deal with respawns. If you make it you have to hop on a platform which you may miss and jump over should you have forgotten to turn off sprint. After crossing a gap in an other daring jump you find the same pipe constellation on the other side. Of course if you fail this jump and being pushed to the sides... Well guess, you have to start all over again. That's where you say to yourself "I'm going to do this once without help, just to fuel the deep self-hatred. Then I'm going to build a jump macro" Edited February 2, 2012 by Dragoon- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceciltaru Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I too have been having problems with some of these jumps, and after 20 or so attempts, i usually move on, because anymore and the frustration is just too much. Oh i come back and try again, but again, after 20 attempts, you get the picture. The problem I have is the mechanic doesn't make much sense when applied in a real world situation. Now I know what you are gonna say: "its a game", "its fantasy", but it still has to have some type of physics. I should be able to run, jump, cross pipes/ledges, all without coming to a stop, figuring an optimal jump point, and then doing some trick to get my jump be longer or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have zero problems making any of the datacron jumps. My friend struggles with nearly every one of them. I have a <50 ping, where as my friend has a 150+ ping. I'm pretty sure that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You should go play some original mario bros When you beat the game come back and post how easy datacrons are to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceciltaru Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You should go play some original mario bros When you beat the game come back and post how easy datacrons are to get i'm not sure the original mario bros could be beat. i mean, when my brother and i got to screen 99, it resets, the turtles start coming out slower again and everything. we played through twice, and then stopped, because it was early saturday morning, and we weren't sure the 2600 could take much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGriffith Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 From what I've seen, there's like a step or so at the beginning of the move animation that basically "eats" your jump input. If you're in a tight space (such as on a pipe) and move then quickly jump, you end up just hopping off the edge. (maybe at one point in design you wouldn't just walk off the edge of stuff and had to manually hop down via that control input? It's almost what it feels like.) So to get a good forward jump, you have to either have more room so you can jump later/after you've gotten up to speed, or jump THEN (and very quickly) try moving forward. (and it has to be quickly, this game uses realisticish flight trajectory, so you have very little ability to start moving in a direction after your airborne.) One thing I've also noticed, there seems to be some sort of variable for how high you jump. Even on relatively straightfoward jumps I'll miss it the first few times because I simply don't jump high enough, then eventually *boing* and I'll clear it easily. I think that if you are standing on the downward slope of the pipe and try to jump you are far more likely to make that kind of weird stutter and fall instead. As if the system tries to match your height with the downward slope and stops further upwards movement. The characters really really drag their feet. Even a match stick can block them. If you try to make a jump your character will go up until you hit the forward button. Then it will start to go up and forward, until you reach the highest point of the jump. Then you will go down and forward until you hit a more or less horizontal surface again. I am not sure if there is a maximum forward jump length or not. During that trajectory your character clips with the geometry and the tiniest thing interfering will stop movement in that direction. So if you did not notice that nail jutting out from the wall you are going to bump against it and not moving higher. Same with that match stick on the ground. Of course you still have the forward button pressed so that may well continue leading to a sort of half hearted jump followed by a fall. Steering clear of obstacles on the ground (i.e. try to stay behind those weird pipe segment connections if you can make the jump that far) often helps with difficult jumps. I found no difference in distance between a standing or running jump. Only that the running jump is harder to type. Jumping sideways from pipe to pipe is annoyingly difficult and often leads to the stutter jump and fall (due to you not being in the center of the pipe and the system getting confused about how high you should jump, if at all. At least that is what I think is going on). Companions may push you off ledges if they run in just as you press the jump and forward (again that is my experience and I have taken to sending the companion away when trying for difficult jump sequences.) Some datacrons are just not worth the aggravation (yes, I am glaring angrily at you Justicar datacron) The fun is trying to work out how to reach a datacron. Currently trying to figure out the red light area one on Nar Shaddaa. Not going to use a spoiler site for them if I can avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDiciple Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I dont know if it can be called a bug. The game engine jumping mechanic is horrible, that is all, it has no fluidity, it makes little sense at all. Compare the frustration of making jumps here and games like Portal? Portal has jumps, it has puzzles, it has difficulty... this, this is just ridiculous at times because of bad engine. Waiting for 40 minutes baloon run just for it to bug mid-air is not 'exploration'. Failing last jump in series and having to start over is not challenge or puzzle or exploring. I see where I'm supposed to go, how I'm supposed to get it, why should slight latency spike and keypress delay make such a huge influence on my ability to get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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