Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Yep, this was a major turnoff for me as well. Gotta admit the "exhaustion zone" between the Imp / Rep starting city for Tatooine and the other parts is a bit of a "head scratcher" to say the least. And that design emphasises part of the issue that some may be having with this game: The Rep's and Imps are separated so much, Bioware seem to be going out of there way to wrap players up in cotton wool (figuratively speaking) to stop any chance of griefing in ANY possible way. Which I can understand to a degree. But Bioware seem to have taken it way too far to the point whereby they feel that exhaustion zones and even entire versions of planets are needed for each side. And THAT is precisely one major way how SWTOR differs to WoW. Yes there were areas dedicated to each faction for leveling BUT you could visit them if you wanted to. You cannot do that a lot of the time in SWTOR. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka
Varghjerta Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Whilst I can appreciate what you're saying, in SWTOR's defense one could argue that in specific regards to endgame activities, it's no different than all other MMO's that have been churned out in the last 8 or so years. Personally speaking, I blame the fact that end game in MMO's is often centred around instanced activities like flashpoints, warzones and operations. The simple fact is, the industry is yearning for MMO's to evolve beyond the standard formula and become enriched with content and activities that add . The big question is: does Bioware want to break from that "standard formula" mould, or will it continue just like the others? Time will tell. But basicly instancing is the only way keeping alot of players happy . Open world mean competition and these days some people even complain that they got jumped and killed by 2 players and that it should be nerfed. Some can't accept that they could sometimes get the short stick of something
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) But basicly instancing is the only way keeping alot of players happy . Open world mean competition and these days some people even complain that they got jumped and killed by 2 players and that it should be nerfed. Some can't accept that they could sometimes get the short stick of something Instancing is usefull, don't get me wrong. But like a lot of things in life, over-use can have an undesired, and sometimes even counterproductive, effect. And instancing certainly shouldn't be used as an alternative solution to dealing with players who want to act like morons and grief people for kicks and giggles. To do so is a little too heavy handed. The same goes for making contested areas. These can be ok, if the conditions are right for it (i.e. not just one mission node / npc with an incredibly long respawn timer). Everything in moderation. And if the level of instancing in the game is Bioware's solution to dealing with things like griefing and contested spawns, then I think they've been a little heavy handed. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) 100 people means I rarely see 1 person around me, it's not a lot, I think I saw about 10 players while leveling from Republic side and worse, 4 total Empire, which is supposed to be my enemy. There isn't a single planet with over 10 heroic quests, I've had them all in my quest log. You can solo 2+ ones, with a big hit to leveling speed or repair costs; if you outlevel it by a bit you can even solo the heroic 4 ones. All games have level appropriate instances. Due to lack of other players around me there's little point to the world bosses, except for the champion mobs which you could solo with some care you can't touch harder bosses. There's just nobody to group with. Ilum has nothing to do with PvP, there's no reason to kill anyone there, if there ever is anyone there. And there will be no reason to even be there next patch if Empire does show up, not going to bother being quest completion NPC for the Empire groups. I've yet to hear of any challenging class storylines. They are not easy but it requires a bit of using your brain and class skills. Warzones ... nobody seems to care about winning them, they just pile up on the biggest skirmish there and stay there. Have yet to have any trouble winning Warzones when with my 2 guildies. It also makes it nice because you can guide sheep to a place you want protected, hold your own against a few Empire players, everyone then piles up there and you can go 2-3 man a point/side ... If your saying 100 people per shard isnt enough you havent seen a 100 person shard You say ilum is dead for you yet i see plenty of people around me with 0 shards and around an average of 60-70 players Maybe on bigger planets it will water down but certainly not dead by any means You must be on a low pop server My server is a high pop server and for the q's we used to have it never felt it was rammed but never dead either sharding is great i certainly dont want to fight for mobs and wait respawns but i also dont want it to feel dead and i must say it never really has on my server Edited January 16, 2012 by Mercia
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If your saying 100 people per shard isnt enough you havent seen a 100 person shard You say ilum is dead for you yet i see plenty of people around me with 0 shards and around an average of 60-70 players Maybe on bigger planets it will water down but certainly not dead by any means I find it interesting, and questionable, that you claim to see 60 - 70 players on Ilum constantly. It's certainly possible, but your server must be an exception rather than the norm. On my server (Progenitor - EU), the total number of players on the Imp side is usually around the 25 mark. And there's hardly ANY Rep's being seen on Ilum yet. And yes, that means very little pvp action right now. Incidentally, 100 people on a planet the size of Tatooine COULD certainly be considered somewhat lacking in people. Why? Because a sizeable portion of players could be in instances. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka
archifikoss Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Gotta admit the "exhaustion zone" between the entrance city and the other parts is a bit of a "head scratcher" to say the least. The same is just outside Anchorhead for the Reps. And it emphasises part of the issue that some may be having with this game: The Rep's and Imps are separated so much, Bioware seem to be going out of there way to wrap players up in cotton wool (figuratively speaking) to stop any chance of griefing in ANY possible way. Which I can understand to a degree. But Bioware seem to have taken it way too far to the point whereby they feel that exhaustion zones and even entire versions of planets are needed for each side. And THAT is precisely one major way how SWTOR differs to WoW. Yes there were areas dedicated to each faction for leveling BUT you could visit them if you wanted to. You cannot do that a lot of the time in SWTOR. I find the exhaustion zone very annoying myself... It's such a pity you see those gorgeous vast expanses and not be able to go there because you start dying IMO it should be removed. If they're intent on having something discouraging people from moving through these areas, they could use it as a hazard, i.e. "The sweltering desert suns exhausts you and overheat your equipment", which gives some debuffs (i.e. reducing movement speed etc).
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I find it interesting, and questionable, that you claim to see 60 - 70 players on Ilum constantly. It's certainly possible, but your server must be an exception rather than the norm. On my server (Progenitor - EU), the total number of players on the Imp side is usually around the 25 mark. And there's hardly ANY Rep's being seen on Ilum yet. And yes, that means very little pvp action right now. Incidentally, 100 people on a planet the size of Tatooine COULD certainly be considered somewhat lacking in people. Why? Because a sizeable portion of players could be in instances. Pretty sure ive seen that high number on ilum but i have also seen very low numbers but that would be say in the morning when i sometimes try beat the crouds I can pretty much find an instant group for the group quests in ilum Ive also never not seen Republics in peak hours always someone to attack Edited January 16, 2012 by Mercia
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 I find the exhaustion zone very annoying myself... It's such a pity you see those gorgeous vast expanses and not be able to go there because you start dying IMO it should be removed. Agreed. Every time I use a taxi over that area, I always think to myself "Why can't I just go through that myself?" If they're intent on having something discouraging people from moving through these areas, they could use it as a hazard, i.e. "The sweltering desert suns exhausts you and overheat your equipment", which gives some debuffs (i.e. reducing movement speed etc). To me, the way how they are using that "exhaustion zone" mechanic is a little on the excessive side. There's a big lake on Balmorra which you cannot venture into much because of it. It's these little things that really drive home why some people are feeling like they are being gated too much, or that progression is too linear. These places need to be opened up, made a little more "free". And yes some areas may indeed be devoid of a lot of interesting features. But isn't that exactly what environments like deserts and ice capped snow fields are like?
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Pretty sure ive seen that high number on ilum but i have also seen very low numbers but that would be say in the morning when i sometimes try beat the crouds I can pretty much find an instant group for the group quests in ilum Then I'd say you are lucky. Others on other servers aren't necessarily so. Just remember, what you witness on your server may not be indicative of what is occurring on others. Nevertheless, planets the size of Tatooine, Hoth, etc, could be considered devoid of players IF certain conditions are met. Having multiple instances of the exterior zones, Reps in entirely different versions of the exterior environments, can all go towards making a player feel that the environments are empty of players or that the game is nothing more than a lobby with instances (I don't personally feel strongly in that way, but I can still appreciate why others might). Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka
archifikoss Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Agreed. Every time I use a taxi over that area, I always think to myself "Why can't I just go through that myself?" To me, the way how they are using that "exhaustion zone" mechanic is a little on the excessive side. There's a big lake on Balmorra which you cannot venture into much because of it. It's these little things that really drive home why some people are feeling like they are being gated too much, or that progression is too linear. These places need to be opened up, made a little more "free". And yes some areas may indeed be devoid of a lot of interesting features. But isn't that exactly what environments like deserts and ice capped snow fields are like? It's even more annoying than unnaturally placed "natural borders" to me... Simply because I can see the other end, there's nothing blocking me from going except a silly gimmick WoW's world may look inconsistent, poorly scaled and unnatural, but at least they minimized use of exhaustion zones to, well, oceans that would be inaccessible without a huge ship anyway! BTW Tarka... Keep fighting the good fight for space combat (I remember you from the MASSIVE space combat threads back then) It's got so much potential to be so much more, it would be a waste if Bioware doesn't expand on it!
AsheraII Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Well, it's an MMORPG, and I'm here more for the RPG component than for the lousy MMO component, so SW:TOR is extremely satisfactory to me. It really is a good sequel to KotOR I and II. If I didn't care about the RPG component, and just wanted to play an MMO, than I might still be playing that lobbygame called WoW. Since, like it or not, WoW merely a lobbygame, with people waiting in town next to the mailbox for their cross-server group to form (because they're rejects from the few actually socially capable guilds) and get teleported into some dungeon they couldn't find in world anyway. This game isn't WoW, it has only some very remote similarities. This is a KotOR sequel. Even the controls are nearly the same! Don't like KotOR? Don't like RPG's? Then don't play SWoTOR.
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 It's even more annoying than unnaturally placed "natural borders" to me... Simply because I can see the other end, there's nothing blocking me from going except a silly gimmick Tbh, i haven't seen many invisible walls, although it was amusing to find ways to clamber up the hills on ilum, only to find that we're on an asteroid (look over the edge and all you see is stars). WoW's world may look inconsistent, poorly scaled and unnatural, but at least they minimized use of exhaustion zones to, well, oceans that would be inaccessible without a huge ship anyway! BTW Tarka... Keep fighting the good fight for space combat (I remember you from the MASSIVE space combat threads back then) It's got so much potential to be so much more, it would be a waste if Bioware doesn't expand on it! Agreed. Things like Oceans are more believable as a form of natural barrior. As for space combat, I'm keeping a more low profile on that until I see more details on what the devs are working on (which they refuse to discuss at the moment).
Recommended Posts