Esresro Posted January 16, 2012 Author Posted January 16, 2012 Totally disagree here. I've wanted single-player instances for the longest time. They feel so epic when you know everything in front of you and behind you, you have killed yourself and not got carried through by other people who happened to get there just a minute before you. Truly freaking epic! I'd be interested in knowing what other games you've played then. Personaly I feel this level of instancing to be far from epic and more scripted where the outcome is set from the moment you walk in. Where other games had non instance areas (wow swg as example) I would oftern bump into other random players where pvp or friendship could break out. To me that was epic. It's great you love it but by the sound of it you would find equal enjoyment from games like Dead Island and Fable 3 which are single player games. You also say you're on your 3rd level 50. So soon? It makes you wonder how much life the game has left for you and we've just come to the end of the free month.
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Did anyone mention flying mounts in wow what a load of crap also mount fly in air to object land miss all of this massive "LAND" mount up fly off again Its terrible
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Wow felt open, alive and breathing because it was a land and you can walk on it. This mmo has planets and by not being able to fly around in the space between them? It will never feel like a living and breathing universe. I feel instanced to death and I have no mmo feeling about this game what so ever, feels more like a game with outdated graphics and great story+voice acting... Sorry but it's not a real mmo. Right now, in my opinion, the problem with the planets is that: They are too small. e.g. Tatooine should be LOT bigger than it currently is. They are too broken up (entire areas are nothing more than zones you fly through on taxi's)Not high enough population in each "instance" of the exterior worlds.The two factions are deliberately kept so far apart that they are often in entirely different versions of the same planet.There is very little "ambience" to the planets. They feel largely static and lifeless (lack of atmospheric music in some cases, no day/night cycles, not meany roaming mobs, etc, etc). The above probably explains why some feel the game feels somewhat like a single player game (not completely mind you). And whilst I'm sure some like that kind of thing, it's not exactly good for promoting this game as an MMORPG. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka
Tal-N Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Another person ran to 50 soloing and ran heroics and flashpoints when they were grey, then claims the game is single player. OK, how try soloing the flashpoints on hard or nightmare and tell me it is a single player game.
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Yeah? Just like that? Hyperbole much? It's not that difficult to level to 85, It's not that difficult to run through heroics, and it's not that difficult to clear the Raid Finder Difficulty Raids. Not sure where you can argue?
ThanosTitan Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Did anyone mention flying mounts in wow what a load of crap also mount fly in air to object land miss all of this massive "LAND" mount up fly off again Its terrible Yeah flying mounts are so dumb, NEED MOAR WALLS AND EXHAUSTION ZONE FOR GREAT FUN PLZ!!!!!!!!
Blackweb Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Maybe that's how it felt a long time ago, but can you honestly say that WoW is any different now? I can log into WoW right now with an alt that I never geared. Hit Queue for Heroics build up my gear, then after awhile of doing that, I can now hit Queue for Raids. I can level from 1-85, Gear through heroics, and now beat Deathwing (The final boss right now) all with out actually really interacting with anyone at all. Maybe I should have clarified. I quit wow because of the reasons you mentioned, it's not how I feel about it now it's how I felt about it pre-dungeon finder I meant. Wow is a horrible game, they aren't even trying to hide the greed anymore, it's turned into a freaky capitalistic beast which I'm scared to even think about approaching. They could have made this game epic, but noooo money had to be saved, mechanics and graphics were slacked on and now it seems they are paying the price more than they ever thought. Good decision making EA! Way to go on those other mmo's which do so well too right? Edited January 16, 2012 by Blackweb
ThanosTitan Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 The problem I see with this OP's comparison, is that those other two games mentioned, are good.
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Maybe I should have clarified. I quit wow because of the reasons you mentioned, it's not how I feel about it now it's how I felt about it pre-dungeon finder I meant. Wow is a horrible game, they aren't even trying to hide the greed anymore, it's turned into a freaky capitalistic beast which I'm scared to even think about approaching. They could have made this game epic, but noooo money had to be saved, mechanics and graphics were slacked on and now it seems they are paying the price more than they ever thought. Good decision making EA! Way to go on those other mmo's which do so well too right? Ah, well while I don't agree with how you feel.However your opinion makes more sense now that you clarified. I hope you find a MMO that you do like though in the future.
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Ah, well while I don't agree with how you feel.However your opinion makes more sense now that you clarified. I hope you find a MMO that you do like though in the future. Perhaps SWTOR will be it?
WarTornPanda Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) It's not that difficult to level to 85, It's not that difficult to run through heroics, and it's not that difficult to clear the Raid Finder Difficulty Raids. Not sure where you can argue? You're trying to "straw man" the original argument. The guy you responded to said that WoW was a living, breathing world with minimal instancing. This is true. Your counterpoint is that you are capable of avoiding the open environment (in WoW) in favor of dungeon crawling and maintaining minimal contact with other players. The main difference being that the option to enjoy a living, breathing world exists in WoW. This is simply not the case with TOR. Whether or not you CHOOSE to avoid the open world environment is irrelevant to his point. He was conveying that such an environment does not exist in TOR, but it does in WoW. Do you agree with his sentiment or not? Edited January 16, 2012 by WarTornPanda
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Perhaps SWTOR will be it? It is for me at least, I've been having alot of fun, and so have my friends. I'll continue playing it until those things change regardless of how big of a success the game ends up being 3-6 months down the road. There is an odd obsession alot of people have that for an MMO to be worth playing it needs to reach 10+ million subs.
timtty Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 See the babies like OP crying over this ****, but still yet to see ANY objective evidence of any other MMO game being something other than this.
timtty Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 The main difference being that the option to enjoy a living, breathing world exists in WoW. This is simply not the case with TOR. Please enlighten me, *** lives and breathes in WoW, and any other game, give me some sort of LOGICAL example, and not some convoluted thing in your head.
krinaman Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Can't you at least appreciate why people are feeling the way they do about the game? Not really. I mean, I guess I can see someone who never played a MMO before making these complaints. But anybody who has played a MMO would know that this is how they all are.
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Not really. I mean, I guess I can see someone who never played a MMO before making these complaints. But anybody who has played a MMO would know that this is how they all are. Not only that but the fact that this game offers much more in the way of group content than any mmo ive played in a long time. Everything is optional in this game and just becouse the OP choose to plough through this in single player mode is HIS problem Ive found many ways to group in the open world so i call BS to this whole thread really Edited January 16, 2012 by Mercia
WarTornPanda Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Please enlighten me, *** lives and breathes in WoW, and any other game, give me some sort of LOGICAL example, and not some convoluted thing in your head. I'm impressed that you managed to fit all that into a single sentence. With that being said, I have no idea what you're asking of me. Perhaps you are simply making a statement. The lack of a question mark leads me to believe so. Will you please clarify?
knightblaster Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 You're trying to "straw man" the original argument. The guy you responded to said that WoW was a living, breathing world with minimal instancing. This is true. Your counterpoint is that you are capable of avoiding the open environment (in WoW) in favor of dungeon crawling and maintaining minimal contact with other players. The main difference being that the option to enjoy a living, breathing world exists in WoW. This is simply not the case with TOR. Whether or not you CHOOSE to avoid the open world environment is irrelevant to his point. He was conveying that such an environment does not exist in TOR, but it does in WoW. Do you agree with his sentiment or not? That's "old WoW", though -- the WoW of ages past. Current WoW is all about LFD and is basically a lobby game (how it is played by the majority of the players). I no longer play WoW, but my son does, and he and his friends (and his guildmates in his various guilds -- hundreds and hundreds of players I'm talking about here) don't "explore the seamless world" at all. They have no interest in it -- if they want that, they play a singleplayer game, which does that kind of gameplay better. They sit in Orgrimmar and Stormwind and run LFDs/LFRs again and again and again when they are not running a guild raid or run. This is simply how WoW is played by the vast majority now, and it is by design by Blizzard, really. I think it's because MMOs like WoW are now in competition with lobby games like BF3 and COD -- people want multiplayer access immediately and on demand, and this is the main playstyle for many of people. So to compete with this, Blizzard streamlined its multiplayer game to accommodate this expectation, and it has met with great success. Seamless world is very 2004. 2011 is instant-gratification-multiplayer-on-demand, and Blizzard, being a keen observer of the games industry and what its actual competition is (for player time, which is the key competitive driver), adjusted its game to give players a comparable experience to the multiplayer they were enjoying in other blockbuster games. MMOs are no longer competing just within their own market -- they are competing with other genres of games for the time of the gamer. Blizzard gets this, and have adjusted their game to compete with the kinds of lobby multiplayer experiences that have been wildly successful in other genres. BioWare is trying to do this in a different way, by pulling in people who like SP gameplay, but this is a much odder fit in a game that is, in its essence, multiplayer, than it is for Blizzard to effectively turn WoW's seamless world into a game that is played by most as a lobby game.
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 You're trying to "straw man" the original argument. The guy you responded to said that WoW was a living, breathing world with minimal instancing. This is true. Your counterpoint is that you are capable of avoiding the open environment (in WoW) in favor of dungeon crawling and maintaining minimal contact with other players. The main difference being that the option to enjoy a living, breathing world exists in WoW. This is simply not the case with TOR. Whether or not you CHOOSE to avoid the open world environment is irrelevant to his point. He was conveying that such an environment does not exist in TOR, but it does in WoW. Do you agree with his sentiment or not? You can choose to do a lot of things in MMOs, however WoW's environment are not living or breathing. They are every bit as canned as environments in every other MMO ever released. You have NPCs standing around with ! and ? over their heads, and you have other NPCs walking around pointlessly in the same repeating patterns doing absolutely nothing special. The same can be said for mobs that you fight, they either stand around like idiots, or follow a repeating path. The only difference between the environments of WoW, and the environments of SWTOR is that one has more loading screens than the other. Environments are environments they are nice set pieces with which to place quests in.
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 That's "old WoW", though -- the WoW of ages past. Current WoW is all about LFD and is basically a lobby game (how it is played by the majority of the players). I no longer play WoW, but my son does, and he and his friends (and his guildmates in his various guilds -- hundreds and hundreds of players I'm talking about here) don't "explore the seamless world" at all. They have no interest in it -- if they want that, they play a singleplayer game, which does that kind of gameplay better. They sit in Orgrimmar and Stormwind and run LFDs/LFRs again and again and again when they are not running a guild raid or run. This is simply how WoW is played by the vast majority now, and it is by design by Blizzard, really. I think it's because MMOs like WoW are now in competition with lobby games like BF3 and COD -- people want multiplayer access immediately and on demand, and this is the main playstyle for many of people. So to compete with this, Blizzard streamlined its multiplayer game to accommodate this expectation, and it has met with great success. Seamless world is very 2004. 2011 is instant-gratification-multiplayer-on-demand, and Blizzard, being a keen observer of the games industry and what its actual competition is (for player time, which is the key competitive driver), adjusted its game to give players a comparable experience to the multiplayer they were enjoying in other blockbuster games. MMOs are no longer competing just within their own market -- they are competing with other genres of games for the time of the gamer. Blizzard gets this, and have adjusted their game to compete with the kinds of lobby multiplayer experiences that have been wildly successful in other genres. BioWare is trying to do this in a different way, by pulling in people who like SP gameplay, but this is a much odder fit in a game that is, in its essence, multiplayer, than it is for Blizzard to effectively turn WoW's seamless world into a game that is played by most as a lobby game. ^^ This I don't think much more beyond what this poster says needs to be said on this subject. He nails my original point dead on.. This is the trend of MMOs these days.
WarTornPanda Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Both of your responses combined contained about two sentences actually related to the original question. I'm not even going to ask again. I'm going to make a statement this time and I won't be looking at this thread again. The SW:TOR world is lifeless. The WoW world is not.
Wiggletphyre Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 After hitting 50 and doing some end game in my free month as well as play around with a few alts I've looked back to see what ToR really is. It's a lobby game plus a single player / co-op game. The leveling period is like Dead Island or Fable 3 where you play single player for the cost of the game with voice over but other players can join you. A linear game yet fun. End game is really nothing more than a lobby game like Diablo or League of Legends where you find a group and go off into your instance be it pvp, flashpoints or operations. The only MMORPG part of this game is where you go out to look for crafting materials on the planets but even some of that is automated in crew missions. I brought SWToR for its claim to be an MMORPG and the social and gaming style that MMORPGs offer. However this game is a single player / co-op and lobby game roled into one. It's shiny and new now and the new patch might make me subscribe for another month but it leaves me wondering about the games long term future. Because its not like that in "that other game" You sit around in your factions capital city waiting for something to pop up
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Both of your responses combined contained about two sentences actually related to the original question. I'm not even going to ask again. I'm going to make a statement this time and I won't be looking at this thread again. The SW:TOR world is lifeless. The WoW world is not. So WoW's world is not lifeless because there are no loading screens except between continents? Because I mean I don't think that an NPC standing around with a ! over its head = lifelike. SWTOR has that! WoW has vendors that stand in place doing nothing interesting, oh hey.. SWTOR has that too. The Mobs in WoW move around a little to KINDA look like they are doing things, and a few even patrol around... oh hey.. The Mobs in SWTOR do that too! So aside from more loading screens, what exactly is the magical ingredient that WoW has to feel more lifelike?
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 some of the planets are absolutly massive and every bit alive as in wow if you can call them that. its already been stated that mobs in both games are either stood there waiting to be killed one way or another, that could be patroling a pre difined path or just stood there yet both games come alive when "YOU" make them come alive. Seriously go to hoth or belsavis without a speeder explore the map and come back here in 6+ hours and tell me that its not an open world like wow We have open worlds like wows some that are at least the size of outland some are smaller but we have far more choice than wow yes we have loading screens but so does wow except they are far less choice than we do
Mercia Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 At least in SWTOR having the amazing quest systems i actually know why im even there in the first place In wow i have auto quest accept and just go do my quests this is true even for new content never turned that option off
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