Esresro Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 After hitting 50 and doing some end game in my free month as well as play around with a few alts I've looked back to see what ToR really is. It's a lobby game plus a single player / co-op game. The leveling period is like Dead Island or Fable 3 where you play single player for the cost of the game with voice over but other players can join you. A linear game yet fun. End game is really nothing more than a lobby game like Diablo or League of Legends where you find a group and go off into your instance be it pvp, flashpoints or operations. The only MMORPG part of this game is where you go out to look for crafting materials on the planets but even some of that is automated in crew missions. I brought SWToR for its claim to be an MMORPG and the social and gaming style that MMORPGs offer. However this game is a single player / co-op and lobby game roled into one. It's shiny and new now and the new patch might make me subscribe for another month but it leaves me wondering about the games long term future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esresro Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Page two so soon on a Monday at this hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeleena Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I bought this game exactly for the reasons you say you don't like it OP. I bought it because I wanted a KOTOR 3, and I actually got a KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6, with the added bonus of being able to play them with my friends. I'm totally tired of the same old grind to max level and raid/heroic ad nauseum, so I am happy that a game is out that is actually fun to level in, where the leveling part is the major part of the game and not the same old boring end game crap. MMO's will never be popular again until they can figure out a different way for end game, because everyone has played an MMO and raided the end game, and we are tired of it. We want something new, and BW did it right and gave us a leveling experience unlike any other game in history. Who knows, maybe they will figure out different things to do in end-game that will revolutionize the MMO-genre, but until they I will enjoy leveling at least 4 toons to 50, which will be about 1000 hours of entertainment for $90 (game + two months). Where else in the world can you get entertainment like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whilst I can appreciate what you're saying, in SWTOR's defense one could argue that in specific regards to endgame activities, it's no different than all other MMO's that have been churned out in the last 8 or so years. Personally speaking, I blame the fact that end game in MMO's is often centred around instanced activities like flashpoints, warzones and operations. The simple fact is, the industry is yearning for MMO's to evolve beyond the standard formula and become enriched with content and activities that add . The big question is: does Bioware want to break from that "standard formula" mould, or will it continue just like the others? Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I bought this game exactly for the reasons you say you don't like it OP. I bought it because I wanted a KOTOR 3, and I actually got a KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6, with the added bonus of being able to play them with my friends. I'm totally tired of the same old grind to max level and raid/heroic ad nauseum, so I am happy that a game is out that is actually fun to level in, where the leveling part is the major part of the game and not the same old boring end game crap. Whilst I will agree that the leveling part is indeed "fun" to some degree, I'm finding that it gets old by the second character (aside from the class missions which are a very small part of the overall content for leveling). MMO's will never be popular again until they can figure out a different way for end game, because everyone has played an MMO and raided the end game, and we are tired of it. We want something new, and BW did it right and gave us a leveling experience unlike any other game in history. Who knows, maybe they will figure out different things to do in end-game that will revolutionize the MMO-genre, but until they I will enjoy leveling at least 4 toons to 50, which will be about 1000 hours of entertainment for $90 (game + two months). Where else in the world can you get entertainment like that? What you said echoes what I said earlier, MMO's need to start breaking out of the "comfort zone" for endgame content i.e. flashpoints, operations and warzones. I don't mean stop implementing such content, what I mean is that perhaps that range of content is no longer considered enough in terms of interesting content. People seem to be wanting something interesting. And what better IP to use than Star Wars? Does Bioware have the capability or desire to enrich the standard formula? I don't think we can say for sure either way right now. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbeat Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You forgot about the Ilum dailies. That's legitimate, compelling world PvP there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esresro Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whilst I can appreciate what you're saying, in SWTOR's defense one could argue that in specific regards to endgame activities, it's no different than all other MMO's that have been churned out in the last 8 or so years. Personally speaking, I blame the fact that end game in MMO's is often centred around instanced activities like flashpoints, warzones and operations. The simple fact is, the industry is yearning for MMO's to evolve beyond the standard formula and become enriched with content and activities that add . The big question is: does Bioware want to break from that "standard formula" mould, or will it continue just like the others? Time will tell. Good post. Personaly I feel instancing feel like bad MMORPG design. I would like more the need to venture out onto worlds with other players from both factions. Alas I see that ToR has been designed so open world activaity to be kept as a minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeleena Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whilst I will agree that the leveling part is indeed "fun" to some degree, I'm finding that it gets old by the second character (aside from the class missions which are a very small part of the overall content for leveling). What other game (at its launch of vanilla content and not an expansion) have you even fathomed leveling more than one character to max level, let alone done it? I mean, sure you might level each of the type of toons to level 10-15, but then you will inevitably go back to your one main toon, because the leveling experiences sucks so much. In SWTOR, you don't get that feeling, and Im on my 3rd 50 and I still love it. To each there own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well okay, but World of Warcraft is pretty much the same way.. Except there you sit around a Capitol City while waiting for queues to pop, or finding groups for things. I mean how often does anyone bother hanging out with people not in their guild in WoW? Not too often, I know I never cared to level with random people, or even talk to random people unless I needed too.. Infact I've been talking to random people in SWTOR way more than I have for years in WoW. Infact You don't even need to be friendly with other people in WoW to raid anymore, the Raid Finder fixes that. I hate to break it to ya OP but this is the trend of the mainstream MMO. If you don't like it you have other choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You forgot about the Ilum dailies. That's legitimate, compelling world PvP there! Ilum isn't just pvp dailies, there's PVE dailies there too. Besides, on my server (Projenitor - EU), there's a severe imbalance in the level 50 bracket (a LOT more imps than Reps) meaning that pvp isn't that frequent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esresro Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I bought this game exactly for the reasons you say you don't like it OP. I bought it because I wanted a KOTOR 3, and I actually got a KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6, with the added bonus of being able to play them with my friends. I heard that a few times before. Seems EAs marketing department sowed there seeds well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezit Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I wish this game was more entertaining like LoL. I quit WoW and LoL filled it's spot and when I bought this game I was hoping that this game would fill LoL's spot, but I can't even force myself for wait for my daily warzone queue to pop... it's kinda sad. Oh well guild wars 2 will be out soon which will make wow/swtor type mmos obsolete anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeleena Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Good post. Personaly I feel instancing feel like bad MMORPG design. I would like more the need to venture out onto worlds with other players from both factions. Alas I see that ToR has been designed so open world activaity to be kept as a minimum Totally disagree here. I've wanted single-player instances for the longest time. They feel so epic when you know everything in front of you and behind you, you have killed yourself and not got carried through by other people who happened to get there just a minute before you. Truly freaking epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) It's a lobby game plus a single player / co-op game. Welcome to the world of "Theme-park MMOs" where MMOs are just glorified lobby games. ed: I bought this game exactly for the reasons you say you don't like it OP. I bought it because I wanted a KOTOR 3, and I actually got a KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6, with the added bonus of being able to play them with my friends. This is what I bought the game for too. Once the fun from this runs out, I'll most probably leave. Unless end-game expands by the time I finish all the stories, I'm pretty much gone. Edited January 16, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I bought this game exactly for the reasons you say you don't like it OP. I bought it because I wanted a KOTOR 3, and I actually got a KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6, with the added bonus of being able to play them with my friends. I'm totally tired of the same old grind to max level and raid/heroic ad nauseum, so I am happy that a game is out that is actually fun to level in, where the leveling part is the major part of the game and not the same old boring end game crap. MMO's will never be popular again until they can figure out a different way for end game, because everyone has played an MMO and raided the end game, and we are tired of it. We want something new, and BW did it right and gave us a leveling experience unlike any other game in history. Who knows, maybe they will figure out different things to do in end-game that will revolutionize the MMO-genre, but until they I will enjoy leveling at least 4 toons to 50, which will be about 1000 hours of entertainment for $90 (game + two months). Where else in the world can you get entertainment like that? Your sentiments are so misguided and you speak on behalf of far too many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I wish this game was more entertaining like LoL. I quit WoW and LoL filled it's spot and when I bought this game I was hoping that this game would fill LoL's spot, but I can't even force myself for wait for my daily warzone queue to pop... it's kinda sad. Oh well guild wars 2 will be out soon which will make wow/swtor type mmos obsolete anyway. lol, Just like how GUild Wars 1 was suppose to make EQ and WoW style MMOs obsolete, right? It didn't, and it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurgs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you think swtor is a lobby game like diablo then WoW is also a lobby game where you sit in a city until you find a grp... DDO is a lobby game not swtor. It may look a bit deserted at 50 (in fact it does). But try to roll and alt and you'll understand that a LOT of people are nowhere near to 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) What other game (at its launch of vanilla content and not an expansion) have you even fathomed leveling more than one character to max level, let alone done it? I mean, sure you might level each of the type of toons to level 10-15, but then you will inevitably go back to your one main toon, because the leveling experiences sucks so much. In SWTOR, you don't get that feeling, and Im on my 3rd 50 and I still love it. To each there own I guess. By the time I left wow, I had leveled 6 characters to 60 and beyond. Simply because I was bored. Granted the majority of those were done prior to the Lich King expansion. I'm not trying to show off or anything, I only mention this because of the questions you posed to me And whilst I'm sure some don't get that repetetive feeling from leveling in SWTOR, I sure do. Outside of the class missions, the entire content is the same for ALL classes on that faction. Don't get me wrong, I agree that the leveling experience in SWTOR is indeed better than other games simply because of those class missions. But nevertheless, they are still a VERY small part of the overall experience. Now some might find that enough, others may not. For me, I look at the product as a whole. And leveling up is just part of that entire experience. Once you extract the class missions from the equation, and/or once you get to end game, it's business as usual for the most part. Like you say, to each their own. Edited January 16, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 lol, Just like how GUild Wars 1 was suppose to make EQ and WoW style MMOs obsolete, right? It didn't, and it won't. Ya this whole "X will replace X' is foolish. The revolutionary period of MMOs is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackweb Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wow felt open, alive and breathing because it was a land and you can walk on it. This mmo has planets and by not being able to fly around in the space between them? It will never feel like a living and breathing universe. I feel instanced to death and I have no mmo feeling about this game what so ever, feels more like a game with outdated graphics and great story+voice acting... Sorry but it's not a real mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insideman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 lol, Just like how GUild Wars 1 was suppose to make EQ and WoW style MMOs obsolete, right? It didn't, and it won't. GW wasnt supposed to do anything, they didnt want to compete with Blizz. You lose. + GW2 is nothing like GW. You probably havent researched GW2. GW2 may not be the end of quest-grinders, but it will probably make them look obsolete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I like open worlds and need more sandbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wow felt open, alive and breathing because it was a land and you can walk on it. This mmo has planets and by not being able to fly around in the space between them? It will never feel like a living and breathing universe. I feel instanced to death and I have no mmo feeling about this game what so ever, feels more like a game with outdated graphics and great story+voice acting... Sorry but it's not a real mmo. Maybe that's how it felt a long time ago, but can you honestly say that WoW is any different now? I can log into WoW right now with an alt that I never geared. Hit Queue for Heroics build up my gear, then after awhile of doing that, I can now hit Queue for Raids. I can level from 1-85, Gear through heroics, and now beat Deathwing (The final boss right now) all with out actually really interacting with anyone at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 GW wasnt supposed to do anything, they didnt want to compete with Blizz. You lose. + GW2 is nothing like GW. You probably havent researched GW2. GW2 may not be the end of quest-grinders, but it will probably make them look obsolete I lose? I lose what? They (as in the devs) haven't said that about Guild Wars 2 either, its the Guild Wars 2 fanboys who always try to stand up like Guild Wars 2 is gonna run with the big dog. (WoW) Its really laughable to be honest. People (as in not the devs yet again) said the same crap back when it came out. Still.. I lose at what? The game of internet forums? Well good I guess? I mean winning on forums is important right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Maybe that's how it felt a long time ago, but can you honestly say that WoW is any different now? I can log into WoW right now with an alt that I never geared. Hit Queue for Heroics build up my gear, then after awhile of doing that, I can now hit Queue for Raids. I can level from 1-85, Gear through heroics, and now beat Deathwing (The final boss right now) all with out actually really interacting with anyone at all. Yeah? Just like that? Hyperbole much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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