Has SWTOR made profit?

[HavenAE]

I think that it will take a little bit for them to break even but over 2 million copies sold world wide is a really good start.

 

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales-data/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/

Alledgedly.. sorry it's in another language but grand total at the bottom as of the first 10 weeks

 

1.9 million sales globally

 

EDIT: Oh my fault I misread you at first I thought you were saying it would take a bit to break 2 million. Gonna leave the post tho for source value.

Edited January 15, 2012 by HavenAE

[HELhikari]

I doubt they'll have made a profit already. Wait until their earnings report comes out, I guess. Although even that won't tell you how much money they've made or lost on a single game, just overall.

 

They were at one point saying they were looking to have around 500,000 subscribers to be profitable; I don't think they actually said over what period of time they needed that to be.

[Vihazur]

EA said all they needed was 500k to begin making a profit, we have to remember that BW does make other games.

 

They never how long they need to maintain those 500k subs. Seems like an important part of the equation to me.

[LoL-K-Noob]

ITT: The usual people who have no idea what they are talking about. Most never heard of the term "overhead" or "royalties".

[Halofax]

Anyone else here smart enough to look at the front page and realize the game hasnt released in Asia and Australia yet?

 

Im sure the 2 billion people in Asia could help out a little bit on sales.

[Jswizzle]

Everquest 1 continues to make wild profits. They have an expansion every year now. Used to be every 2 years. I would guess Everquest has about 500k subscriptions today (they don't release subscription numbers)

 

500k subscribers is a huge cash cow. It's simple numbers, not rocket science.

[HavenAE]

They never how long they need to maintain those 500k subs. Seems like an important part of the equation to me.

 

True.

 

However 500k subs isn't hard to maintain at all. Hell FFXI had 500k subs at their peak and the game was severely niched.

 

500k a year is $7.5m on just subs.

 

The problem with this thread is people aren't taking into consideration many things. One we have no idea exactly how much this game cost to make. 300m, 200m are ridiculous numbers and at least one has been debunked. 100m is more likely.

 

The game has sold over 2 million copies globally, but how do you calculate the actual sales? Some copies of the game cost 150, others 80, and the standard at 60. Those 2 million copies were sold within the first 3 weeks on a 10 week scale, so it is only logical that it included A LOT of collectors editions and digital deluxe editions.

 

So basically, we have

 

No idea how much the game actually cost to make, just speculation and a quote from wikipedia of all places.

 

 

We know that 500k subs will make it profitable but no idea how long that will take

 

No way of actually calculating $ sales due to different package option costs.

 

No clear idea of retail and LA cuts aside from Lucas allegedly taking 35% off the top.

 

And until about 4 more days, no clue how many recurring subscribers the game actually has.

 

 

 

 

Has SWTOR made a profit? As of right now, this answer is unknowable.

[HavenAE]

Everquest 1 continues to make wild profits. They have an expansion every year now. Used to be every 2 years. I would guess Everquest has about 500k subscriptions today (they don't release subscription numbers)

 

500k subscribers is a huge cash cow. It's simple numbers, not rocket science.

 

http://mmodata.net/

 

Everquest had 100,000 subs as of mid 2010.

 

But it's been launched since '99 It's made back it's initial development a LOOOONG time ago. Of course it generates a profit, it would if it only had 50,000 subs.

Edited January 15, 2012 by HavenAE

[Syylara]

They never how long they need to maintain those 500k subs. Seems like an important part of the equation to me.

 

As I recall they said they needed to (I'm paraphrasing) "maintain 500k subscriptions over the course of the first year."

 

People putting the math together that says it will be profitable 6 months out are forgetting that a live game actually costs more than one in development as they now have the added costs of infrastructure hardware (big, expansive data centers and all the maintenance that comes with them), bandwidth, customer service, marketing, community management, etc.

 

Then, you also have to consider the increase in personnel so while the current team is fixing bugs, adding content patches and tweaking classes, itemization and crafting, a whole other team is working on the first expansion.

[Halofax]

http://mmodata.net/

 

Everquest had 100,000 subs as of mid 2010.

 

Can we all just agree that the only way an mmo is successful is if everyone uninstalls World of Warcraft 1 month after it is released?

 

As long as the game is getting progressive development it is not dead and is turning a profit.

[Halofax]

As I recall they said they needed to (I'm paraphrasing) "maintain 500k subscriptions over the course of the first year."

 

People putting the math together that says it will be profitable 6 months out are forgetting that a live game actually costs more than one in development as they now have the added costs of infrastructure hardware (big, expansive data centers and all the maintenance that comes with them), bandwidth, customer service, marketing, community management, etc.

 

Then, you also have to consider the increase in personnel so while the current team is fixing bugs, adding content patches and tweaking classes, itemization and crafting, a whole other team is working on the first expansion.

 

If this game goes free 2 play it will have at least 12 million players. Star Wars fans young and old will play this game if it becomes free.

[Jswizzle]

http://mmodata.net/

 

Everquest had 100,000 subs as of mid 2010.

 

But it's been launched since '99 It's made back it's initial development a LOOOONG time ago. Of course it generates a profit, it would if it only had 50,000 subs.

 

The point still stands. I mean if anything it proves my point more. 100k subscriptions and they can still pump out expansions every year.

[Swampfot]

Yes, it is impossible to say when and if they will make a profit. But I think the amount of subscriptions after 3 months will say alot if it is successful or not.

 

First month most who aren't interested in the game will quit, so the biggest drop will be then. But not all bought it at the same time. Then there is the fact that some that quit have bought 3 month gamecards they won't use more than sporadically.

 

So, only after a few months will it be possible to determine a baseline for future subs. Then you can compare to that baseline if the game grows in coming months or declines.

[HavenAE]

Can we all just agree that the only way an mmo is successful is if everyone uninstalls World of Warcraft 1 month after it is released?

 

As long as the game is getting progressive development it is not dead and is turning a profit.

 

What does WoW have to do with ANYTHING here?

[Halofax]

True.

 

However 500k subs isn't hard to maintain at all. Hell FFXI had 500k subs at their peak and the game was severely niched.

 

500k a year is $7.5m on just subs.

 

The problem with this thread is people aren't taking into consideration many things. One we have no idea exactly how much this game cost to make. 300m, 200m are ridiculous numbers and at least one has been debunked. 100m is more likely.

 

The game has sold over 2 million copies globally, but how do you calculate the actual sales? Some copies of the game cost 150, others 80, and the standard at 60. Those 2 million copies were sold within the first 3 weeks on a 10 week scale, so it is only logical that it included A LOT of collectors editions and digital deluxe editions.

 

So basically, we have

 

No idea how much the game actually cost to make, just speculation and a quote from wikipedia of all places.

 

 

We know that 500k subs will make it profitable but no idea how long that will take

 

No way of actually calculating $ sales due to different package option costs.

 

No clear idea of retail and LA cuts aside from Lucas allegedly taking 35% off the top.

 

And until about 4 more days, no clue how many recurring subscribers the game actually has.

 

 

 

 

Has SWTOR made a profit? As of right now, this answer is unknowable.

 

Any time people talk about whether or not a game will break even I reference Superman Returns.

 

Man that was a terrible movie. It cost 250 million to make. I cant even imagine the kind of profit it made.

 

This game will come and go, people will subscribe and quit and come back and quit.

 

New people will buy the game, and there will be xpacs.

 

And in the End im sure it will go Free 2 play and make a ton of money off of all the people who didnt want to pay a sub to play.

 

And thats not even mentioning the money this game will make when it DOES release micro-transactions. Every Bioware game has optional DLC and microtransactions. They are coming to SWTOR too. Book it.

[HavenAE]

The point still stands. I mean if anything it proves my point more. 100k subscriptions and they can still pump out expansions every year.

 

I didn't say the actual point was wrong, just the numbers.

 

 

[Jswizzle]

I didn't say the actual point was wrong, just the numbers.

 

 

 

Actually after looking at the site you posted. Their claim about EQ subs is substantial at best. They even mark it so by giving it a C rating saying and I quote.

 

"C rating – Some of the data points may come from official or other reliable sources, many of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information."

[Jalden]

If this game goes free 2 play it will have at least 12 million players. Star Wars fans young and old will play this game if it becomes free.

 

Problem is, "free 2 play" is not free.

[Halofax]

What does WoW have to do with ANYTHING here?

 

Well, lets see.

 

1.)When Age of Conan didnt kill wow, People said it died. Age of Conan just released and expansion and has a lot of subs. Also has progressive development.

 

Also Age of conan isnt free to play. It has a free to play OPTION that locks you out of over half of the endgame content. You have to pay to actually play the game.

 

2.) When Aion didnt kill wow, people said Aion died. Aion just released a new expansion and has version 3.0 coming out soon. Aion has something like 6 active US servers and millions of Korean players subscribed.

 

3.) When LOTRO didnt kill wow people said it died. LOTRO has released like 5 expansions now and isnt even halfway to Mordor. Still has progressive development. Still isnt dead.

 

4. City of Heroes - New Episodes every 2 months.

 

5.) Champions online- New issues once every 2 months.

 

6.) DCUO - Still trucking

 

7.) Warhammer Online - Not dead JUST yet, and thats including the fact that Mythic was too busy making this game to fix it.

 

8.) Rift - Didnt Kill wow, Still trucking. Still alive and kicking.

 

 

The only MMOs I have ever seen DIE are the Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies.

 

Glaxies was merged into this game pretty much, and the Matrix Online was an insult to humanity.

 

When the day comes that the only MMO anyone out there is playing is WoW, I will believe that this game has already failed just because after 3 weeks it has ONLY sold 2 million copies not including Asia.

 

TL:DR

 

Tons of MMOs out there that people claim are dead are not dead. People enjoy them every day. This game wont die.

[HavenAE]

And in the End im sure it will go Free 2 play and make a ton of money off of all the people who didnt want to pay a sub to play.

 

Remember EA runs Warhammer and it's under 100k subs and they have no plan to make that game F2P. SWTOR is by far a better game than WAR, if it goes F2P before WAR does, if at all, I'll be incredibly surprised.

 

I wouldn't count on this game going F2P any time in the near or far future.

 

And thats not even mentioning the money this game will make when it DOES release micro-transactions. Every Bioware game has optional DLC and microtransactions. They are coming to SWTOR too. Book it.

 

 

And those have always been single player rpgs. MMO land is quite a bit different. I wouldn't rule out eventual micro-transactions for fluff. Not ruling out DLCs, but I don't think it would be in their best interest to try and wring more money out of their playerbase that are already paying a sub.

[Halofax]

Remember EA runs Warhammer and it's under 100k subs and they have no plan to make that game F2P. SWTOR is by far a better game than WAR, if it goes F2P before WAR does, if at all, I'll be incredibly surprised.

 

I wouldn't count on this game going F2P any time in the near or far future.

 

 

 

 

And those have always been single player rpgs. MMO land is quite a bit different. I wouldn't rule out eventual micro-transactions for fluff. Not ruling out DLCs, but I don't think it would be in their best interest to try and wring more money out of their playerbase that are already paying a sub.

 

Warhammer Online probably wouldnt be in such bad shape if its development team wasnt busy fixing this games PVP.

[Halofax]

Remember EA runs Warhammer and it's under 100k subs and they have no plan to make that game F2P. SWTOR is by far a better game than WAR, if it goes F2P before WAR does, if at all, I'll be incredibly surprised.

 

I wouldn't count on this game going F2P any time in the near or far future.

 

 

 

 

And those have always been single player rpgs. MMO land is quite a bit different. I wouldn't rule out eventual micro-transactions for fluff. Not ruling out DLCs, but I don't think it would be in their best interest to try and wring more money out of their playerbase that are already paying a sub.

 

Every mmo has micro transactions.

 

They are a good thing UNTIL they go the rout of A Perfect World and let you buy faster XP.

 

Thats not Free 2 play, thats Pay to Win.

[Xugos]

NO, Bioware has made 0 profit yet. They are still paying back debt for the game's development/operational costs/upkeep.

 

It'll be many years until they're profitable, if they manage to retain an MMO population capable of that.

[Jswizzle]

NO, Bioware has made 0 profit yet. They are still paying back debt for the game's development/operational costs/upkeep.

 

It'll be many years until they're profitable, if they manage to retain an MMO population capable of that.

 

You mean EA I think. They paid for the game.

[HavenAE]

Well, lets see.

 

1.)When Age of Conan didnt kill wow, People said it died. Age of Conan just released and expansion and has a lot of subs. Also has progressive development.

 

Also Age of conan isnt free to play. It has a free to play OPTION that locks you out of over half of the endgame content. You have to pay to actually play the game.

 

2.) When Aion didnt kill wow, people said Aion died. Aion just released a new expansion and has version 3.0 coming out soon. Aion has something like 6 active US servers and millions of Korean players subscribed.

 

3.) When LOTRO didnt kill wow people said it died. LOTRO has released like 5 expansions now and isnt even halfway to Mordor. Still has progressive development. Still isnt dead.

 

4. City of Heroes - New Episodes every 2 months.

 

5.) Champions online- New issues once every 2 months.

 

6.) DCUO - Still trucking

 

7.) Warhammer Online - Not dead JUST yet, and thats including the fact that Mythic was too busy making this game to fix it.

 

8.) Rift - Didnt Kill wow, Still trucking. Still alive and kicking.

 

 

The only MMOs I have ever seen DIE are the Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies.

 

Glaxies was merged into this game pretty much, and the Matrix Online was an insult to humanity.

 

When the day comes that the only MMO anyone out there is playing is WoW, I will believe that this game has already failed just because after 3 weeks it has ONLY sold 2 million copies not including Asia.

 

TL:DR

 

Tons of MMOs out there that people claim are dead are not dead. People enjoy them every day. This game wont die.

 

 

Okay?

 

 

People are also idiots and actually believe one MMO can kill another MMO.

 

I don't ever really recall stating anything about saying any other MMOs are dead or not making a profit, just provided numbers from a site that tracks subscriptions for MMOs.

 

If anything I agree with you. I'm not one of these ignorant forum trolls that thinks a game has to have millions of subs like WoW or it's a failure. Hell I'm from 17 years ago in this genre and know that most MMOs ever launched never even so much as broke 1 million subs and many were considered enormous successes.

 

Hell MMOdata says the original Everquest never broke 600,000 subs, would I call that a failure? No way.

 

 

Also 2 million copies for a launched MMO is actually amazing, thats why SWTOR has been dubbed the fasted growing MMO ever launched.

 

But retention is a whole different story.

 

 

I'm happy if SWTOR maintains a healthy player base that keeps it profitable and continues to develop, even if it is "only" 500k.