Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Cadiva]

What is so unique mechanic wise with a SWTOR AC vs a WoW talent tree or the RIFT soul design?

 

AC change the role vs Talent Tree/Soul changing the role.

 

Also in case someone points out Sentinel, see Druid or Cleric.

 

If the AC had a unique story I could see the point but it is the same regardless of which one you pick.

 

Because they're three totally different things?

 

WoW - Druid - pick where to put points in three different spec trees -be able to have two specs about five years after the game lauched (from memory)

 

Rift - Rogue - get three souls by the end of the tutorial which you pay to buy skills in. At level 13 ish do quests to get the other five souls and be able to then set up three additional roles which you pay to buy skills in.

 

SW:tOR - Sith Warrior - pick Advanced Class I choose Marauder - THEN pick which spec tree into which to put your points.

 

They're completely different mechanics.

[TItanten]

Right, I was kind of replying to someone else, and I think we got off on a different tangent. But this is why I can understand some people's anger at having to reroll to 50 to play a different style Trooper. They essentially will have the exact same experience for the whole 50 levels. Yes, they could go light side/dark side opposites, but even that doesn't allow for much variability. You still have to talk to the same people and do the same plotlines.

 

See, I don't mind doing it because it's basically a different class and fighting style with the same quests (which, honestly is WoW above level 20).

[gtmach]

Well, no, I think the argument is still valid. I have more options. If I wanted to play an Undead Priest, I can start in one area. If I want an Undead Warrior, I don't really HAVE to play through the exact same area. I can hop the boat and do a different races starting zone and go from there. Sure it's a little more work, but it's not so much that it's prohibitive.

 

And before dual spec, if I wanted to play a shadow priest, vs. holy priest, I could have a different experience.

 

WoW did not have class based stories. This game does hence you start where your story starts.

 

As for the spec, you can choose to play a Jedi Sage focused on ranged dps or a Jedi Sage focused on healing.

 

The difference here is, in WoW you choose your class at level 1. In TOR you truly choose your class at level 10. You're given tons of info and heavily warned that the choice you make at level 10 is like the choice you make in the character creation screen: It's Final..

 

But from then on you're free to respec amongst the 3 talent trees you have. There's choice in that.

[VanorDM]

You still have to talk to the same people and do the same plotlines.

 

You could play a Bounty Hunter, which is pretty much the same thing as a trooper, but whole different story line.

 

But lets face it, even in WoW you can only play so many alts before you've done all the story line content and repeat it.

[TItanten]

Id play wow if i wanted to waste 10 hour doing something i dont enjoy

 

No one is forcing you to do stuff you don't enjoy. You're supposed to play games for fun. If you're not having fun, then quit.

 

Don't like baseball? Don't play it.

[SnoggyMack]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec.

 

I chose Snickers Bar. I really wanted a Twix bar dammit!

[Galbatorrix]

So you want people to be miserable leveling the same class with the same story just because they found at level 30 the AC they picked sucked? I am going on a hunch and going to say you don't own a business, because in business the name of the game is keep customers happy not miserable.

 

 

There are two different factions. Play the opposite AC on each faction adn you can play all 8 ACs with each having it's own story.

 

I have...

 

Jedi Guardian/Sith Marauder

Jedi Sage/Sith Assassin

Gunslinger/Operative

Commando/Powertech

 

 

I get to play all 8 ACs and never repeat the same story twice.

[monegames]

Would I like to have this? Yes.

 

Do I think it should be in this game? No.

 

The choice holds weight in its current form. I rolled an Sith assassin and at level 13 I realized I really didn't like it at all. So now, I just don't think I can take re-rolling the same class again.

 

With that said my fix was trying something different. I rolled an agent and enjoy it. Now when I go back and re-roll the assassin to sorcerer the story won't be so fresh, thus not being so bad.

 

but you realized it early enough that its only a day or so of work to get back to where you were. but some of us waited to see if it got better(like so many on these forums say about the game) till 30 and went through 4 planets, like i did, and guess what i wont roll another consular just to play a seer.

 

they have way to much in common for me to wade through it again. story is the same, side quests are the same, companions are the same(and have no life to them), even gear is the same at least till that level.

[Xyla-Vulchanus]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec. There's no reason for this, give players the choice! If you're worried it will hurt your story or something - don't. You don't seem to care you send Jedi to go slaughter hundreds of Sand People, so why care about something that is needlessly restricting players?

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT:

If you want to say "NO" or "Bioware will never do this!"...

 

WATCH:

 

Thanks to Salzwasser for the link.

 

...and to finally put matters to rest, read: http://torwars.com/2011/12/01/stephen-reid-on-advanced-class-switching/

 

This game is a work in progress of course but the developers are to be applauded for actually putting out a title free from the watered-down easy-mode that other titles revolve around. There will always be idiots like you who demand more choice (therefore making your decisions in-game meaningless), there will always be those who want it all now, who want the crutches of damage-meters, dungeon finders, gearscore counters, etc.

 

Yes, it's just a game, but by removing all elements of independent thought and choices with consequences, you remove any point in playing at all. My advice to you is to go and play something else where you can spend 10 bucks a month getting everything handed to you and where your actions have no real consequences - there's plenty of them about.

[PJEBarlow]

I chose Snickers Bar. I really wanted a Twix bar dammit!

 

If you'd never had a Snickers you could be forgiven for changing your mind, the game is still new. I recently rolled a Juggernaut, I played a little Marauder back in beta and I wish I could play a marauder instead.

 

What's being lost if I could respec my level 13 Juggernaut to a Marauder now? What am I going to get from the game other than spending another couple of hours pointlessly quest grinding the exact same quest chain on Korriban?

 

Nothing.

[darkdayze]

This whole reasoning of "No, just remake your character from scratch" is utterly stupid. The story is the absolute same regardless of your AC and frankly why care if people can respec? If you want a restriction, fine, let it be for 50's only. Otherwise saying "Nope, that's the way it is!" is not a valid reason for this. Or at least, give Tank/Heal AC's a viable DPS tree that you can level with.

 

Then your asking....may I suck at what I do? If you don't re-roll and respec a different AC, then your asking....may I suck at this character because I was stupid enough to go to entirely different class?

[Cadiva]

Well, no, I think the argument is still valid. I have more options. If I wanted to play an Undead Priest, I can start in one area. If I want an Undead Warrior, I don't really HAVE to play through the exact same area. I can hop the boat and do a different races starting zone and go from there. Sure it's a little more work, but it's not so much that it's prohibitive.

 

And before dual spec, if I wanted to play a shadow priest, vs. holy priest, I could have a different experience.

 

And if you choose to pick a Juggernaut instead of a Marauder you'll get a different experience, you'll just be leveling it in the same places. So the argument isn't really a full one. Yes there's more options of places to level in WoW because there's no unique class quest. However, outside of going to a specific planet to run the class quest you can do exactly the same thing in SW:tOR than you can in WoW, you can go to a different planet and run the side quests there.

It ONLY the class quest which directs you to a specific planet at a specific level. There's nothing stopping you once you get your ship around lvl 16 from going to another level appropriate planet and doing the side quests on that one after you've done your planent specific class quest.

[UjellyTrollicus]

if it happens it should be extremely limited.

 

as in you only get 2, and they refresh only every few months. (2 so you can switch back, if you don't like the other)

[Falkelord]

but some of us waited to see if it got better(like so many on these forums say about the game) till 30 and went through 4 planets, like i did, and guess what i wont roll another consular just to play a seer.

 

"I started having sex, and it was alright. I waited to see if it got better, and had a baby. After I was disappointed, I realized I didn't want that anymore and wanted an easy way out."

 

-Your post

[Falkelord]

Then your asking....may I suck at what I do? If you don't re-roll and respec a different AC, then your asking....may I suck at this character because I was stupid enough to go to entirely different class?

 

Or......you can just re-roll and try again, learning from your mistakes.

 

But no, that would be too hard.

Boooooo.

[PJEBarlow]

And if you choose to pick a Juggernaut instead of a Marauder you'll get a different experience, you'll just be leveling it in the same places.

 

It's exactly the same up to at least level 13, take my word for it. I'll bet it's exactly the same beyond.

[Cadiva]

It's exactly the same up to at least level 13, take my word for it. I'll bet it's exactly the same beyond.

 

It's really not. The Juggernaut mechanics are totally different to the Marauders, their AC skills are different. I'm not talking about WHERE you're questing, I'm talking about how the class plays. My Marauder generates Rage to be able to use her abilities to damage, a Juggernaut doesn't.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cadiva

[VanorDM]

I'll bet it's exactly the same beyond.

 

Juggernaut vs Marauder?

 

Wow you couldn't be more wrong. Well you could, you could of said that about Seer/Sorcerer vs Shadow/Assassin... then you would of been more wrong.

 

But no, the difference once you get to be about 15 or so is marketed. The two classes do not play same. One is a heavy armor tank, the other is a medium armor DPS.

 

Those two are the most alike of all the classes I'll grant, both melee classes.

[Falkelord]

It's really not.

 

Yeah I hear you die a whole lot as marauder, but I went jugg and I'm happy as peach pie.

[boobaffet]

No one is forcing you to do stuff you don't enjoy. You're supposed to play games for fun. If you're not having fun, then quit.

 

Don't like baseball? Don't play it.

 

Well i like the game, i wanted a different AC and i misclicked.

 

Since i dont want to play with that AC (because of a freakin misclick) i have to do it all over again. That is a waste of time and i wont enjoy doing it.

 

I have a /played of 11 hours only on hutta, i can tell you i dont want to do hutta again soon.

I enjoyed it the first time but i have no desire of doing it again.

 

So yes the game is forcing me to waste hours doing stuff i already did so i can keep playing it.

 

I cant see anyone in their right mind opposed to a small grace period of changing AC (~5min).

 

The same people will probably be the first to whine to the CS that they bought the wrong gear with their commendation and want it changed. But thats different right?

[LucaProv]

I must be the only one in here who have played Rift for a while, and saw how flexibility can greatly improve the enjoyment you get from this kind of games.

 

In Rift you have 4 archetype, and within these archetype you have 9 souls, which are basically 9 different classes.

 

And you know what? It was fun. With my rogue i could main tank during group dungeons, heal as a bard when needed, and enjoy myself in PVP as an assassin.

 

This is not about choice being important (they are not, being a Sorcerer or an Assasin is exactly the same story-wise), but about having fun. About being able to be a healer to help your group out, and then beign able to queue up for some mindless pvp as a DPS. About reducing the time spent LFG for a tank or a healer. About having more people playing these role.

 

Not introducing some kind of dual spec will badly hurt this game in the long run, no question about it.

[PJEBarlow]

It's really not.

 

I know for a fact it's the same up to at least level 13, because I played a Marauder up to 22 in beta and I have played a Juggernaut up to 13 currently. I've decided, however, that the Juggernaut play style is not what I expected it to be and wish I had the time to waste just to do 13 levels of identical content again.

 

I don't, that's why I am playing an entirely different class now instead.

 

I would lose nothing if given the ability to respec my Juggernaut to a Marauder, nothing. The game would not be easier, it would just be less tedious.

 

Oh, you edited your post to elaborate, so I will reply to that: -

 

It's really not. The Juggernaut mechanics are totally different to the Marauders, their AC skills are different. I'm not talking about WHERE you're questing, I'm talking about how the class plays. My Marauder generates Rage to be able to use her abilities to damage, a Juggernaut doesn't.

 

You obviously miss the point. The play style is what I would like to change, and the play style is the only thing that would change if I had the opportunity to respec my Juggernaut to a Marauder.

 

Every single other thing would be pretty much identical, why do I want to spend hours doing the same 1-13 grind again?

Edited January 13, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[Cadiva]

Yeah I hear you die a whole lot as marauder, but I went jugg and I'm happy as peach pie.

 

I only die if I'm stupid or if I try an elite I know is too many levels above me. But I'm specced fully into Carnage for the additional stance and the advantages which come from that. Life's also a lot easier with Quinn on board

[Pyrolight]

WoWs talent trees are the exact same thing as TOR's talent trees. That's it. A Scoundrel can heal or dps. If I put points in sawbones I can heal. It's the same thing as a priest/shadowpriest. (Sage/Sorceror is a more graphically apt analogy)

 

An AC is an extension of your original class. It is nothing like a talent tree. It is a choice your character makes at level 10 to pursue specialized training in an area.

 

SWTOR AC - Tank/DPS Tank/Healer/DPS Healer/DPS

WoW Talent Trees - Tank/DPS Healer/DPS Tank/Healer/DPS DPS

 

While I get what you are saying with regards to the talent trees in both games defining a role, in SWTOR are they effectively tied to the AC.

 

I am not arguing as to what bioware has done, I am saying they simply added another (redundant) layer that doesn't effectively add anything.

 

If you removed the additional talent trees within the AC and just used the AC as the 2 base talent trees you end up with WoW talent trees.

 

 

Honestly the only reason you guys are even upset about it is because it happens at level 10. If you were required to chose at character creation there would be no whining at all.

 

No we are complaining because it is a bad design if you compare it to other current western MMOs.

 

I really don't see the point in restricting the potential roles a player can bring to the table.

[Swaay]

/sigh No

 

I didn't read your link or watch your vid. Switching classes should not be allowed no matter what.

 

That is all.