Layden Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Right. You know you can increase camera distance by A LOT. right? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Are saying he's lying? I play with the camera pulled as far back as it will, because it's how I like playing. I did the same in WoW. So whatever. The problem is he took a close-up picture of his character to show how great the shadows are indoors in the Imperial Fleet, then zoomed way out to show the outdoor shadows. In order to make a valid comparison, both screenshots should be at the same zoom length. It's basic scientific method. You cannot make a valid comparison if conditions are not similar. Edited January 13, 2012 by carnac_fett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Are saying he's lying? I play with the camera pulled as far back as it will, because it's how I like playing. I did the same in WoW. So whatever. I play with the camera pulled back far under certain circumstances too. However, I think if you travel all the way out to a zone just to snag a screenshot of shadows and then snap said image from a distance where those shadows are ridiculously tiny on the screen (especially knowing you're going to resize the entire image to be small), it's fair to suggest that person is trying to spin the data. And, again, it doesn't matter. How nice the shadows look under certain circumstances is pointless when they look horrible elsewhere. And until they look good *everywhere* (and the performance impact is actually reasonable) there's a problem. Edited January 13, 2012 by Apax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Camera is pulled too far back. Obviously if you play so zoomed out, you will have difficulty noticing the flaws of the shadows. Low resolution is still very much noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laeris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You know you can increase camera distance by A LOT. right? Right. Oh you missed my point. I was sayig "Right" as a means of being sarcastic. As-in... I think you're a bloated fanboy who is purposely zooming out to make the game look a certain way and from a certain angle so as to mislead others. It's ok... out of the 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR, 1.49 million of us have shadows and textures that belong in a 2004 Tomb Raider game. The other 10k who are blissfully happy are also probably the same people who think the almost non-existent L35+ population is nothing to be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 In order to make a valid comparison, both screenshots should be at the same zoom length. It's basic scientific method. You cannot make a valid comparison if conditions are not simialr. I could care less about the quality of shadows, but I do care about science. You cannot make any scientifically valid statement about the quality of shadows and their impact on performance by visually comparing two screenshots, regardless of how similar the conditions are. At most you can make a statement about the quality of the two screenshots relative to each other. Please don't drag science into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptZeal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh you missed my point. I was sayig "Right" as a means of being sarcastic. As-in... I think you're a bloated fanboy who is purposely zooming out to make the game look a certain way and from a certain angle so as to mislead others. It's ok... out of the 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR, 1.49 million of us have shadows and textures that belong in a 2004 Tomb Raider game. The other 10k who are blissfully happy are also probably the same people who think the almost non-existent L35+ population is nothing to be concerned about. The '04 Tomb Raider game has better shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Low resolution is still very much noticeable. To you and I, maybe, but I've noticed that a lot of people claiming they have "ultra" graphics settings like those in Bioware's promo screenshots think so because they lack an eye for detail. The game looks great to them because they don't care about graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laeris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're arguing a moot point though. Even his pulled back image is a poor quality shadow when compared to any major game released since 2009 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptZeal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You're arguing a moot point though. Even his pulled back image is a poor quality shadow when compared to any major game released since 2009 or so. Yeah, I was also going to point this out as well. Edited January 13, 2012 by CptZeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I noticed this the other day. The shadows are not consistant. I get really good shadows outside SOMETIMES. But sometimes they are crap. I actually had a cut scene indoors yesterday with the jagged shadows. something isnt working right, and its not just being inside or out (wish I had a screenshot of it - the really bad inside shadow was during the cut scene on alderan when I beat the duke of house XXXX). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truedark Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All shadows are expensive as hell. To render shadows you essentially have to render a scene multiple times and then for each pixel do a z-buffer check. After thats done you put the results into a texture and finally render that into what the player says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightylawngnome Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I play with the camera pulled back far under certain circumstances too. However, I think if you travel all the way out to a zone just to snag a screenshot of shadows and then snap said image from a distance where those shadows are ridiculously tiny on the screen (especially knowing you're going to resize the entire image to be small), it's fair to suggest that person is trying to spin the data. Often times the simplest answer is the most likely, perhaps he just doesn't have any shadow problems. You mention "reasonable" gaming camera distance but the it thing clearly unreasonable here is you. He's taken the time to take post and link 3 screen caps for you and you simply don't seem prepared to accept that it everyone has the same graphics issue as you. That's also not to say you're the only one having them, only that it's an intermittent issue. Sometimes my shadows look fabulous, sometimes they look like crap. I'd wager there are others on both sides of the fence; always fabulous, or always crappy. You're looking for justification for an issue that many, but not all people have. Your actions show that short of sitting on his lap and watching him play, you won't be satisfied with the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 To you and I, maybe, but I've noticed that a lot of people claiming they have "ultra" graphics settings like those in Bioware's promo screenshots think so because they lack an eye for detail. My eyesight isn't even that great to notice that a lot of graphical aspects of this game are subpar. I do like how they use normal mapping for detailing, though. And man, I wish this game looked like promos. The game looks great to them because they don't care about graphics. I guess a lot of former Xbox 360 players picked up this game :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I noticed this the other day. The shadows are not consistant. I get really good shadows outside SOMETIMES. But sometimes they are crap. I actually had a cut scene indoors yesterday with the jagged shadows. something isnt working right, and its not just being inside or out (wish I had a screenshot of it - the really bad inside shadow was during the cut scene on alderan when I beat the duke of house XXXX). If you had been the first commenter, this thread would have gone an infinitely more constructive route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're looking for justification for an issue that many, but not all people have. Your actions show that short of sitting on his lap and watching him play, you won't be satisfied with the evidence. I don't get it, am I the odd one out? I find it quite easy to use a single finger to nudge a mouse wheel forward. But for others it seems to be above and beyond the call of duty. "I'll take a screenshot. But don't you dare ask me to zoom in!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Oh you missed my point. I was sayig "Right" as a means of being sarcastic. As-in... I think you're a bloated fanboy who is purposely zooming out to make the game look a certain way and from a certain angle so as to mislead others. It's ok... out of the 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR, 1.49 million of us have shadows and textures that belong in a 2004 Tomb Raider game. The other 10k who are blissfully happy are also probably the same people who think the almost non-existent L35+ population is nothing to be concerned about. You can call me what you like dude. Game looks nice on my system and I'm having fun. You on the other hand get your kicks arguing anonymously about a game you seem to not like. That speaks volumes about who you are as a person. Maybe you should look in a mirror and really think about where you are in life that you are really doing this. Edited January 13, 2012 by Layden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laeris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 BioWare said in an interview (It might be the Eurogamer one, I forget) that the reason why we can't play with high rez textures is because performance in SWTOR is most negatively affected by the displayable avatar count. High rez textures made that problem worse exponentially so they were disabled. In short, BioWare has not figured out how to make a slider for: Show High Detail Avatars: 0 <-----|-->30 Now, their engine is having obvious problems. I am an IT professional and I have several PCs... 3 of which are bleeding edge tech new... and my 2 laptops both can outpace most new Alienware desktops. Normally I get upwards of 200 fps when out questing. However, when there's 150 people in the fleet station, my FPS hits 20 or lower. I would hate to see what happens if they actually do turn on hi rez avatars without fixing whatever is causing this huge problem. I'm not a programmer so I don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You can call me what you like dude. Game looks nice on my system and I'm having fun. You on the other hand get your kicks arguing anonymously about a game you seem to not like. That speaks volumes about who you are as a person. Maybe you should look in a mirror. Did you learn how to troll from 4chan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All shadows are expensive as hell. To render shadows you essentially have to render a scene multiple times and then for each pixel do a z-buffer check. After thats done you put the results into a texture and finally render that into what the player says. Every aspect of 3D is taxing on the system. That's why PC gamers invest into expensive video cards. Unfortunately, it seems like Hero Engine does software rendering. This argument about shadows would've been valid 8 years ago. Not in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laeris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You can call me what you like dude. Game looks nice on my system and I'm having fun. You on the other hand get your kicks arguing anonymously about a game you seem to not like. That speaks volumes about who you are as a person. Maybe you should look in a mirror and really think about where you are in life that you are really doing this. I think the game's just fine. I don't treat it like a religion though. I have my fun but I'm not afraid to call a turd a turd when I see one. This game is by far one of the ugliest PC games I've seen in a long time. I have fun with it but I won't ever like the way it looks. Edited January 13, 2012 by Laeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautius Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Camera is pulled too far back. Obviously if you play so zoomed out, you will have difficulty noticing the flaws of the shadows. Your point is correct. But your sig line is not correct. Your SS is set to low settings. The textures look nothing like that at high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Your point is correct. But your sig line is not correct. Your SS is set to low settings. The textures look nothing like that at high. I am at maximum settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Or I play the game that far back? I don't particularly like looking at a giant rancors feet and having no situational awareness when raiding... Yeah, uh-huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I am at maximum settings. What is your GPU and screen res? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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