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Jedi Consular - Loved it but now hate it bc I don't get to use my lightsaber


RonnyRulz

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As with a multitude of people, I want to join in with them to complain about the fact as a Jedi Consular (Sage?) we do not get to use our lightsaber, and it in fact gimps us. Even those Jedi who focus on the force, (Yoda, Emperor, Obi Wan?) they still were very strong in their use of a lightsaber.

 

Pre-Level 10, I absolutely loved the Jedi Consular class. Before level 10, the Double Strike was actually the most damaging ability. As it always should be. Why? Stats. Before becoming a Sage and getting stacks of Will/End, I had a mix of Str/Will/End. Because of this, Double Strike was more damaging than all the others. (Sometimes I wonder if I stack Strength if it will stay that way.)

 

1) Lightsabers SHOULD always be the highest damage dealer (at least in spammable ability like Double Strike) because it's a LIGHTSABER.

 

2) Jedi Consulars are weak in defense, so allowing their highest dps to be Double Strike is perfect. It's still not very effective to use in PvE or PvP because other melee classes will toast you unless you stun them. In boss fights, you don't go up to double strike, you always use the force.

With WEAKER MINIONS (PvE) though it is perfect. That's how I handled it pre-10, and it was a perfect finisher against weaker minions or a quick finisher against almost-dead bosses. Even if you make DS the highest common-ability (spammable) dps for Consulars, most still won't use it and will use the similar-dps force moves instead in safety.

 

The solution? Unless I'm wrong...

 

 

Double Strike's damage works off of STRENGTH, and not WILLPOWER. We can't stack Strength to become Lightsaber-Sages because then we'll gimp 99% of our abilities.

 

I just want to use my lightsaber on the weaker minions, or as a quick finish when I'm high in health and they're about to die. I'll never use it unless it's to finish the enemy, or maybe spam until my knockback/stun refreshes and I can't run away, or for weaker minions.

 

 

 

I'm NOT asking DS for Sages to become insane dps. I'm simply asking for it to be our #1 dps spammable, but definitely not out #1 dps and never the best ability due to its total lack of range. Either that, or replace one of our really powerful abilities (like the ones that have a 1-3min cast time) with a powerful lightsaber attack. That way we have at least 1 lightsaber melee attack, it doesn't kill us bc we're not in consistent melee, but it's awesome and highly damaging.

 

I want to play a Jedi Consular pre-10, but for the rest of the game. 95-99% force, 1-5% lightsaber. As of now, it is 0% lightsaber.

Edited by RonnyRulz
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As with a multitude of people, I want to join in with them to complain about the fact as a Jedi Consular (Sage?) we do not get to use our lightsaber, and it in fact gimps us.

 

As with a multitiude of people I'm going to go ahead and tell you to reroll if you want to use your saber more. Stop trying to ruin the only caster AC in the game.

 

Also, it in no way gimps us. The AC is balanced around the fact that we're never supposed to melee.

 

Have fun, the Shadow boards are that way --->

Edited by Khadroth
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Please do not take this the wrong way because i do not intend to be harsh but I think you may have picked the wrong class. This would be a good time to bring up the mention of a one time only AC swap because sometimes we find that the class we wanted is not the one we were lead to believe was the correct on at level 10. The game has only been out for a month. have you considered starting another character to play as shadow or maybe sith assassin? It might suit your wishes better.
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As with a multitiude of people I'm going to go ahead and tell you to reroll if you want to use your saber more. Stop trying to ruin the only caster AC in the game.

 

Also, it in no way gimps us. The AC is balanced around the fact that we're never supposed to melee.

 

Have fun, the Shadow boards are that way --->

 

Pretty much this.

 

Don't screw the JC sage side of the class when what you wanted was the JC Shadow or the Jedi knight.

 

You want more melee skills, choose the melee AC, NOT the ranged caster AC.

 

It's pretty simple.

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As with a multitude of people, I want to join in with them to complain about the fact as a Jedi Consular (Sage?) we do not get to use our lightsaber, and it in fact gimps us.

 

So... you roll a caster class, then complain about not getting to be melee? Anyone who made the same "mistake" didn't do enough homework ahead of time.

 

As with a multitiude of people I'm going to go ahead and tell you to reroll if you want to use your saber more. Stop trying to ruin the only caster AC in the game.

 

Also, it in no way gimps us. The AC is balanced around the fact that we're never supposed to melee.

 

Have fun, the Shadow boards are that way --->

 

I completely agree with Khadroth. There are three other ACs where you get to use your lightsaber - it comes down to using one (Jedi Guardians), using two (Jedi Sentinels), and using a double-bladed lightsaber (Jedi Shadow). Time to reroll if you want to swing a glowbat or two.

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Picked the wrong AC my friend. You cant pick a ranged caster AC then come on the forums and complain that you don't melee enough and cant stack strength. Well you can, but you wont get any sympathy for it. Sages are fine, you however need to re-roll or learn to enjoy being a caster.
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1) Of course I didn't do my "homework" to this magnitude ahead of time. It is impossible to know what you are unaware of, and you'd have to get lucky to read about this small problem BEFORE picking the class. I only read of other issues. (I also missed the Miraluka clipping issues). This is my first character ever in SWTOR. I want to primarily use the force (Consular) and simply picked Sage because I didn't want to have a double-bladed lightsaber, which I did read (when doing my "homework") REQUIRED a double-bladed or you become gimped (a regular saber). I do not wish to play a Jedi Knight, as they are VERY different. I want to play my Sage, but have *some* way of using my lightsaber. You know...since I HAVE one.

 

2) This was about Jedi Consular, and from what I DID read, there were people (Shadows) complaining about the same thing. As you read the title, it is about Jedi Consular, not Jedi Sage (that is just what I rolled). I assumed that because pre-10 the Consular was so awesome, the sage would be similar at least in the lightsaber regard. Very pointless giving us a saber we never use in ANY regard.

 

3) This wouldn't "ruin the ranged class" as I clearly explained, beefing up Double Strike wouldn't even change how this class plays in any regard. It would just make double strike viable, even if still very ineffective.

 

4) All other ranged classes get melee attacks that are very nice. Regardless, I clearly stated this change would do nothing to the class but make it more fun. 99% of the time you still wouldn't want to EVER get in melee range. Giving them a beefier Double Strike doesn't change this simple fact, so QQ less.

 

5) This IS my homework, and I am grateful for the opinion on rolling a Shadow.

 

Finally, thank you for your suggestions about Jedi Shadow. From the few posts I read of ppl whining about Shadow, I was under the impression they also weren't very lightsaber-friendly. (I assumed they were, but reading other's statements made me pessimistic.)

 

I will re-roll a Jedi Shadow, especially since my Sage is a Miraluka with severe clipping problems due to his headpiece. Something I really can't stand.

 

 

 

My new question is this then:

 

 

QUESTION: Is there any way for a Jedi Shadow to be viable WITHOUT using a double-bladed saber???

 

 

Thank you everyone, even if I entirely disagree that Sages should have a 100% useless lightsaber. I'd prefer to have no saber and two-handed force animations like in the movies, than to hold a saber I never ever use.

 

They could at least give more DEFENSIVE abilities or animations with the saber. Perhaps the Sage can use the saber entirely as a DEFENSIVE tool to reflect lasers, instead of as an offensive weapon. At least THAT would make sense and stop everyone from QQing about everyone else's idea to make the lightsaber NOT useless by giving Double Strike the Willpower stat instead of Strength.

Edited by RonnyRulz
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You guys seem to be entirely oblivious to the obvious:

 

 

Why give a Ranged Force class that uses WILLPOWER, a melee ability that uses STRENGTH? Why do this at all?????

 

I realize you are scared of change, but this is lunatic to be without any reason in defending the Sage class, acting like it is okay for them to have a useless weapon and two abilities which rely on a stat they will never use.

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Jedi Shadow is closer to what you want than a Jedi Sage. They both share the balance talent tree and Sage gets Defense and Infiltration. Shadow is a melee class though.

 

I realize you are scared of change, but this is lunatic to be without any reason in defending the Sage class, acting like it is okay for them to have a useless weapon and two abilities which rely on a stat they will never use.

 

Think of it this way, your Sage is a caster who can (as a Jedi) use a light saber but it's not where their expertise lays. You can't be good at everything. A Shadow is more connected with the enfeebling side of the force and uses a dualbladed light saber.

 

Sage is the only Jedi class where you can 'nuke' well.

Edited by eldelphia
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Jedi Shadow is closer to what you want than a Jedi Sage. They both share the balance talent tree and Sage gets Defense and Infiltration. Shadow is a melee class though.

 

 

 

Think of it this way, your Sage is a caster who can (as a Jedi) use a light saber but it's not where their expertise lays. You can't be good at everything. A Shadow is more connected with the enfeebling side of the force and uses a dualbladed light saber.

 

Sage is the only Jedi class where you can 'nuke' well.

 

In reality though, a Sage should NEVER use his lightsaber. If he does, he gimps himself in EVERY regard. Wrong range. Horrible dps. Allowing enemies to access their weakness (light armor vs melee).

 

I'd prefer not even having a lightsaber than to have one and be gimped using it.

IMO, it is bad game design when a class has an ability which, if used, will only HURT the player, and never (in ANY circumstance) help them.

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Finally, thank you for your suggestions about Jedi Shadow. From the few posts I read of ppl whining about Shadow, I was under the impression they also weren't very lightsaber-friendly. (I assumed they were, but reading other's statements made me pessimistic.)

 

They're still infinitely more Lightsaber friendly than the AC that doesn't use it's saber for melee at all.

 

I will re-roll a Jedi Shadow, especially since my Sage is a Miraluka with severe clipping problems due to his headpiece. Something I really can't stand.

 

If you want to roll a miraluka again stick to the "eyeglasses" looking masks. They don't clip with anything unlike the giant veils do.

 

My new question is this then:

 

QUESTION: Is there any way for a Jedi Shadow to be viable WITHOUT using a double-bladed saber???

 

No. It's just something you have to accept, kind of like Sages not being viable in melee.

 

Thank you everyone, even if I entirely disagree that Sages should have a 100% useless lightsaber. I'd prefer to have no saber and two-handed force animations like in the movies, than to hold a saber I never ever use.

 

They could at least give more DEFENSIVE abilities or animations with the saber. Perhaps the Sage can use the saber entirely as a DEFENSIVE tool to reflect lasers, instead of as an offensive weapon. At least THAT would make sense and stop everyone from QQing about everyone else's idea to make the lightsaber NOT useless by giving Double Strike the Willpower stat instead of Strength.

 

They already have made it a defensive tool. If you pay closer attention you'll notice you deflect blaster shots and parry melee quite regularly.

 

For the record, willpower does buff DS for the consular. Upon rolling a Sage however, willpower ceases to buff your melee attacks, which makes it pretty obvious what the developers intent for the AC was.

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In reality though, a Sage should NEVER use his lightsaber. If he does, he gimps himself in EVERY regard. Wrong range. Horrible dps. Allowing enemies to access their weakness (light armor vs melee).

 

I'd prefer not even having a lightsaber than to have one and be gimped using it.

IMO, it is bad game design when a class has an ability which, if used, will only HURT the player, and never (in ANY circumstance) help them.

 

I understand what you're saying but think about it in terms of the huge amount of lore there is on Jedi. I am by no means a Jedi geek but even in popular culture, Jedi= Lightsaber. I think of it as if my Sage has gone through basic training. She can lift a saber, use a saber, deflect and defend with her saber but her strengths are in other areas. If I want a saber specialist, I call in a Shadow or one of the Knight classes.

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I agree with the OP. The light saber skills you retain are a pre-specialization legacy and ineffectual.

 

Even though the class becomes a ranged specialist, the class COULD have light saber skills that compliment it:-

 

They could:

 

- add a small debuff to enemies struck.

- stun an enemy.

- knock them back

- [insert dev choice here]

 

From a design POV:

 

All of the classes suffer from ability bloat. An existing special move could be a light saber move, if desired and implimented that way.

 

From a lore POV:

 

Light saber skills should compliment Force use. Not be replaced by them. (A light saber should not be a stat stick).

 

I think this is bad design.

Edited by Tathkar
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You guys seem to be entirely oblivious to the obvious:

 

 

Why give a Ranged Force class that uses WILLPOWER, a melee ability that uses STRENGTH? Why do this at all?????

 

I realize you are scared of change, but this is lunatic to be without any reason in defending the Sage class, acting like it is okay for them to have a useless weapon and two abilities which rely on a stat they will never use.

 

 

Because the melee ability is given at your low levels where your force abilities aren't as strong and you actually do have to melee.

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Wait Wait Wait. when you play other mmo out there and you roll let a priest or a mage do you use your melee or you just stand at range and let them have it. Sage is an AC which is a range so therefore you don't get close to the mobs. people really need to get this.:mad:
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I agree, we should keep it the way it is. We're not supposed to be melee characters even with a lightsaber. Think of a Priest character carrying a Rod/Staff.

 

At least we get to see our character 'using' the saber to deflect attacks! Priests don't :p

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The problem for me is I can't make the Jedi I want...because of the things I don't want in a Jedi...

 

I don't want an All Caster Jedi - Sage

I don't want an all Saber Jedi- Guardian

I don't want to use a double bladed or dual weild saber or use steath tactics -Sentinal, Shadow

 

 

What I was hoping for was something like in the movies, a class where I could swing my saber and occasionaly pick up that downed droid and throw it with the force.

 

Don't get me wrong I love my Guardian, and my Sage is an absolute blast to play.... But I feel when I am playing one.. say my Knight, I start missing the force weilding aspect... and when I move to my Sage I miss my saber.

For me the "Consular" phase of my training was the most like how I hoped a Jedi in this game would play like.

 

 

I know you can't have your cake and eat it, but it would be nice if you could.

Edited by Tsnow
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The problem for me is I can't make the Jedi I want...because of the things I don't want in a Jedi...

 

I don't want an All Caster Jedi - Sage

I don't want an all Saber Jedi- Guardian

I don't want to use a double bladed or dual weild saber or use steath tactics -Sentinal, Shadow

 

 

What I was hoping for was something like in the movies, a class where I could swing my saber and occasionaly pick up that downed droid and throw it with the force.

 

Don't get me wrong I love my Guardian, and my Sage is an absolute blast to play.... But I feel when I am playing one.. say my Knight, I start missing the force weilding aspect... and when I move to my Sage I miss my saber.

For me the "Consular" phase of my training was the most like how I hoped a Jedi in this game would play like.

 

 

I know you can't have your cake and eat it, but it would be nice if you could.

 

Doesn't sound like a problem at all. Sounds completely like the system is working as intended.

 

You're playing one class, desire an aspect of another, and so you roll an alt and switch to it so that you can enjoy that aspect. Then when you desire something from the original character you switch back.

 

People seem to forget, BW WANTS you to reroll. They want you to experience all the classes and their stories. Keeping each class restrictive also makes them unique and individual, which is absolutely necessary in a game that already has a mirror for each class.

Edited by Khadroth
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