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Sith warrior class story - 'unrealistic' bits? *** SPOILERS ***


WereWyvern

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*** SPOILERS ***

 

Okay guys, just finished the SW story on my juggernaut. I mostly liked it; it was fine; certainly less annoying than the SI story my wife was completing in parallel.

 

There are hower two aspects that bothered me; they didn't make much sense. I mean, I know it's a game and all but the scenario was unrealistic for those two points:

 

1) Jaesa. Okay so after I hunt her down through the galaxy, kill her parents (that she loved btw), her master and basically anyone I could find related with her; she falls in love with me? (I'm dark sided; turned her to dark too). I mean sorry, but that's just pretty impossible. You don't kill someones parents and they fall in love with you; I mean if she turns evil she should try to kill me in my sleep, not fall in love with me.

 

2) Quinn. How comes Qinn betrays me and I forgive him? Please. I chose to kill everyone I met simply 'cause I didn't like their faces and I am taking Quinn back after he complots with Baras and tries to kill me? That's crap. I want him dead.

 

Well, my 2 cents; I wonder if anyone else was bothered by this or similar?

Edited by WereWyvern
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Well, considering Jaesa is as twisted as she is, I've heard worse for Sith overall. That's believable.

 

Quinn though, that chapped my a**. The one thing I hate about the dialogue choices is that you basically state you're going to kill a potential (or already) companiion, yet there's always an excuse. They should have made alternate companions to replace the ones you kill, so that you actually have some control here.

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You showed Jaesa power and freedom; she's happy you did what you did because you released her from what she now considers servitude. Because you did what you did, she now feels alive for the first time in her life. You might not react the way she did, doesn't mean there wouldn't be people who would.

 

As for Quinn, I agree to a degree. Honestly, it would have been pretty stupid to kill my only healing companion, arguably my most important companion in the lot. I just try to chalk it up to the fact that the Sith eliminate who expend their usefulness,, and use those they can control---Despite his betrayal, Quinn is still a supremely capable individual, and still has his uses.

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Well, I actually did NOT kill Jaesa's parents.

I sent them to Dromund Kaas where 'they live like kings'. However I killed the jedi guarding her parents. :D

After that I turned Jaesa dark by making her kill her former master.

 

 

 

I'm not that far i n the story yet, but Quinn will betray me? At least let me put a shock collar on him.

 

Edit: added spoiler tag

Edited by Felaner
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Jaesa, meh I can understand her fall, if you pick the right answers it makes sense.

 

 

Karr: Jaesa if your training would have been complete you could have beaten him -- Me: er YOU are fully trained and could not beat me...

 

 

The real issue with that Quinn part of the storyline is the "redemption":

 

 

 

I choke you a little bit, then you willingly work for me again.

 

Cause slaughtering all those other sith lords and jedi didn't give you the impression I could handle a puny imperial officer with 2 damn droids, alone!

 

There is no, absolutely no real reason Quinn shouldn't plot against me again.

At least when fighting Baras, backstabbing me could end me, and he'd even be in Bara' favor again.

I can even be as stupid as to not tell my crew about this, so he is able to "lead" them (?!) further on.

 

If I'd be the sith I was before I might not kill him right away, but deliver him to Pierce and Jaesa to torture every information out of him, until I finally dispose of that rat.

 

 

Edited by Segaki
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*** SPOILERS ***

 

Okay guys, just finished the SW story on my juggernaut. I mostly liked it; it was fine; certainly less annoying than the SI story my wife was completing in parallel.

 

There are hower two aspects that bothered me; they didn't make much sense. I mean, I know it's a game and all but the scenario was unrealistic for those two points:

 

1) Jaesa. Okay so after I hunt her down through the galaxy, kill her parents (that she loved btw), her master and basically anyone I could find related with her; she falls in love with me? (I'm dark sided; turned her to dark too). I mean sorry, but that's just pretty impossible. You don't kill someones parents and they fall in love with you; I mean if she turns evil she should try to kill me in my sleep, not fall in love with me.

 

As a story-writer, I agree, its a little Mary-Sue that your character gets to be a maniacal murderer and plow Jaessa's guts after killing her loved ones. I could make the argument in support of the idea that Jaessa being corrupted to the Dark Side helps her put those things in perspective with comparison to her obvious obsession with being an evil bloodsucking murderer herself (paying attention to her companion quests, she talks about getting wasted and *********** some trooper, or *********** him up at least, as an example). However I think her transition from good natured padawan to twisted, evil apprentice is clunky. Its offset by the fact that Nomen Karr goes Dark by the time she arrives to reason with you, and by the fact that she later qualifies her lack of attachment to her parents by saying they practically used her all her life (the parents themselves say the same thing, and are willing to sell her out for safety and wealth from the Empire).

I guess the main problem with Jaessa is that she is the victim of too many hardships to really believe her as a character.

If I could rewrite the story (which I'm actually doing in my free time for fun), I would introduce Jaessa to the protagonist a lot earlier and create some sort of interaction with them that first piques her curiosity towards the Dark Side. I probably would remove her parents from the equation entirely, write them off as dead or something. If they absolutely needed to be a part of the narrative, then I think it would be best if the main character could present Jaessa with something that discredits her parents as loving and caring. It would make more sense with the idea of Dark side Corruption. It needs polish, obviously, but I like that direction a bit more.

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Jaesa considers the killing of her parents collateral damage of Nomen Karr's dispute with Baras. She blames him more than your PC (whether that's realistic or not isn't really the issue for the sake of this story, plus there are plenty of "real" people who aren't that attached to their parents). When you turn Jaesa, she's freed of all of her constraints and you are basically unleashing her true self. She's every bit the cold hearted Sith your PC is, so it's not unfathomable that she would relate to your PC and eventually love your PC.

 

As for Quinn, the whole time I was fighting him I was thinking "damnit now I won't have a healer". The fight with the battle droids wasn't hard, and if you want a RP justification for taking him back it's just that--he's no real threat to you even if he plots again in the future and he has his practical uses as your only healer. Now, it might be a little less realistic if you were a female Sith trying to romance Quinn, but that wasn't the case for me (or you).

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Jaesa considers the killing of her parents collateral damage of Nomen Karr's dispute with Baras. She blames him more than your PC (whether that's realistic or not isn't really the issue for the sake of this story, plus there are plenty of "real" people who aren't that attached to their parents). When you turn Jaesa, she's freed of all of her constraints and you are basically unleashing her true self. She's every bit the cold hearted Sith your PC is, so it's not unfathomable that she would relate to your PC and eventually love your PC.

 

These are exactly the kind of story subtleties I'm enjoying the most. It was the biggest factor for me in deciding to play my characters against the norm, like light sith and dark jedi. I wanted to see how the writers would handle it. And so far I've been very pleased :)

 

How things went down with Quinn though.. not as much. My particular rp justification is that he cob jobs the assassination attempt on purpose, because he really didn't want to succeed.

Edited by grania
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Agreed on most points, but I can live with it because it's an interesting dynamic so I like the fact that it's not a case of: Acquire companion and that's a wrap.

 

Funny thing to me is that I kinda felt/knew Quinn was a snake from the beginning but something was egging at me during the completion of the quest where he says he'd like to serve you and I just kinda realized if I didn't accept him as a companion that I might be missing out on something or making a silly mistake.

 

It is funny to me that now knowing what he'll do later on that I kinda treat him as a castoff. I don't really care if he gains affection and since I can't just kill him, well he can be stuck in a life of servitude healing my behind while I eventually overthrow my own master whom he plotted with... poetic justice?

 

Just starting on Alderaan so I'm really anxious now to get Jaessa. It seems very interesting to me that this Padawan who's been talked up to death as the Jedi's savior gets turned, by me, and I can even manipulate a relationship out of her if I so choose... I mean that's just gravy on the taters!

 

I don't really know how the other classes storylines are working, I'm trying to follow my buddy who's got an Assassin but it sure doesn't seem as compelling so far from what I've gathered compared to us Warriors.

 

While it may be considered unrealistic, terms like Stockholm Syndrome weren't coined in fable alone, so it is in the realm of possibility.

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Its so funny that you are talking about unrealistic story arcs and chocies, yet you made it plainly clear that your character is a turd who kills people cause he didn't like their faces.

 

Bioware can't compensate for your stupid unrealistic choices either. You played the game like it was grand theft auto. Do you think in a "realistic" sense that the empire or republic would put up with your characters nonsense?

 

I went light side and those stories tied in 100% awesome because I played like I was a real person - you know - like was intended.

Edited by Dire
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*** SPOILERS ***

 

Okay guys, just finished the SW story on my juggernaut. I mostly liked it; it was fine; certainly less annoying than the SI story my wife was completing in parallel.

 

There are hower two aspects that bothered me; they didn't make much sense. I mean, I know it's a game and all but the scenario was unrealistic for those two points:

 

1) Jaesa. Okay so after I hunt her down through the galaxy, kill her parents (that she loved btw), her master and basically anyone I could find related with her; she falls in love with me? (I'm dark sided; turned her to dark too). I mean sorry, but that's just pretty impossible. You don't kill someones parents and they fall in love with you; I mean if she turns evil she should try to kill me in my sleep, not fall in love with me.

 

2) Quinn. How comes Qinn betrays me and I forgive him? Please. I chose to kill everyone I met simply 'cause I didn't like their faces and I am taking Quinn back after he complots with Baras and tries to kill me? That's crap. I want him dead.

 

Well, my 2 cents; I wonder if anyone else was bothered by this or similar?

 

Jaesa: Keep in mind the Jedi order teaches detachment, and frowns upon attachments. So she could have been so detached from her parents, master, etc.. already. So much so that their deaths, while sad, did not have the impact that they would have on someone who was not taught detachment. Also, another post said that, in essence, you freed her from a life of servitude and gave her a life she now enjoys, and is encouraged to have attachments; you being her savior and obvious first attachment. So it does make some sense, from a certain point of view. ;)

 

Quinn: Ya, he shouold die. I kill all traitors on my Sith, why should he be different? From a game mechanic view point though, it would leave us down a companion. Maybe BW will be putting in a new story line that revisits this, and gives you chance to kill him while gaining a new companion?

 

Time will tell I suppose.

Edited by Lividcalm
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I played like I was a real person - you know - like was intended.

 

Lol.. your post is, I don't even know what to say. You play your way and everyone else will play theirs. There are no wrong answers when it comes to the dialogue, and I'm pretty sure the only thing Bioware "intended" was for all of us to enjoy ourselves.

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Lol.. your post is, I don't even know what to say. You play your way and everyone else will play theirs. There are no wrong answers when it comes to the dialogue, and I'm pretty sure the only thing Bioware "intended" was for all of us to enjoy ourselves.

 

I hope you can read between the lines. But i'll tell you, no writer writes a story to have one of the characters (esepcially a dynamic lead character like the player) be shallow like most "dark side options only" players. Its not realistic. So based on that style of choices made you will be a product of your environment, as it were. shallow is shallow. Don't expect realistic outcomes if you don't make realistic choices.

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I hope you can read between the lines. But i'll tell you, no writer writes a story to have one of the characters (esepcially a dynamic lead character like the player) be shallow like most "dark side options only" players. Its not realistic. So based on that style of choices made you will be a product of your environment, as it were. shallow is shallow. Don't expect realistic outcomes if you don't make realistic choices.

 

I *think* I understand the point you're making now. I'm still not sure it's true, though. I also played light, and regarding Quinn - I had 10k affection with him, my character married him and talked about having kids with him, and I just don't believe the betrayal was a realistic outcome. Or at least, the absolute inability to persuade him not to do it.

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*** SPOILERS ***

 

1) Jaesa. Okay so after I hunt her down through the galaxy, kill her parents (that she loved btw), her master and basically anyone I could find related with her; she falls in love with me? (I'm dark sided; turned her to dark too). I mean sorry, but that's just pretty impossible. You don't kill someones parents and they fall in love with you; I mean if she turns evil she should try to kill me in my sleep, not fall in love with me.

 

Stockholm Syndrome

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How things went down with Quinn though.. not as much. My particular rp justification is that he cob jobs the assassination attempt on purpose, because he really didn't want to succeed.

 

I sorta agree. I am not sure it was necessarily a conscious decision, but it sure seemed like he set himself up for failure. He even says himself that he should have known better. (That from Mr. "I'm not too proud to acknowledge when I'm mistaken." :rolleyes:)

 

 

Yes, I had to look up the quote. :p

 

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*** SPOILERS ***

 

Okay guys, just finished the SW story on my juggernaut. I mostly liked it; it was fine; certainly less annoying than the SI story my wife was completing in parallel.

 

There are hower two aspects that bothered me; they didn't make much sense. I mean, I know it's a game and all but the scenario was unrealistic for those two points:

 

1) Jaesa. Okay so after I hunt her down through the galaxy, kill her parents (that she loved btw), her master and basically anyone I could find related with her; she falls in love with me? (I'm dark sided; turned her to dark too). I mean sorry, but that's just pretty impossible. You don't kill someones parents and they fall in love with you; I mean if she turns evil she should try to kill me in my sleep, not fall in love with me.

 

2) Quinn. How comes Qinn betrays me and I forgive him? Please. I chose to kill everyone I met simply 'cause I didn't like their faces and I am taking Quinn back after he complots with Baras and tries to kill me? That's crap. I want him dead.

 

Well, my 2 cents; I wonder if anyone else was bothered by this or similar?

 

Agree on number 1.

 

My understanding is that in beta you used to be able to kill your companions. But after people killed Quinn they complained because they lost a healer companion. So BW changed it so you couldnt kill companions.

Edited by OrYcle
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Most of these complaints are from DS SWs. Um...Jaesa dark side has no depth, no story, and is just as mindless as the PC. Light side Jaesa is much more put-together, interesting, and makes more sense.

 

Quinn's a douchecanoe either way. Light side Jaesa should have healing abilities to replace him because you should be able to kill him.

Edited by SevTrando
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I digged Jaesas transition, but Quinns betrayel really pissed me off, cause I hated Baras so damn much it made my blood boil. Everytime that fat **** issued me and order I wanted to murder him furiously. So Quinn dogging out with Baras was like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

Other than that, I found the Sith Warrior story absolutely amazing.

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I digged Jaesas transition, but Quinns betrayel really pissed me off, cause I hated Baras so damn much it made my blood boil. Everytime that fat **** issued me and order I wanted to murder him furiously. So Quinn dogging out with Baras was like FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

Other than that, I found the Sith Warrior story absolutely amazing.

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the Dark Side of the Force twists a person's priorities. She was anguished over her parent's deaths, those strong emotions of loss and anger and hate towards you that she was keeping down made her weak and susceptible. She can't beat you, so those emotions consume her, and they're negative emotions. She realizes the Jedi had lied to her the whole time, and part of her blames the Jedi for her parent's fault (a logical fallacy but is an effect of the Dark Side, blame is deflected away the wrong way, rationality be damned).

 

Suddenly she stops caring about the fact that you killed her parents, and all she cares about is that you can make her stronger than the Jedi ever could, and you could set her free. She incorrectly sees the Jedi as the root of her parent's deaths, because if it weren't for you hunting down Noman Karr, her parents would still be alive, therefore Noman Karr is to blame, right?

 

It's similar to Anakin Skywalker, he fell to the Dark Side due to strong feelings of love and anxiety that his love would die. Then he tried to kill the woman he loved because of paranoia and distrust. He blames the Jedi for things that any rational person would know is simply untrue. It RADICALLY changes them.

 

That is why "Grey" Jedi make no sense.

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