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Lethality PvP


JediSithlordboss

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So I'm a heavy PvPer, about to hit 50 (48 atm).. I've been marksmen for most of the time, experimented with engineering, but back to marksmen. I'm beginning to realize our damage is being migrated more and more when I thought my higher level would allow for an increase in burst (the burst is great with MM).

 

I'm looking for a change of pace, I see lethality is alot of dots and poisons and INTERNAL damage.. Which completely bypasses armor, but I'm a little afraid to make the heavy change at this stage (already a Centurion valor rank 40). The burst from MM is great and allows me to take large portions of HP away at will, so I worry that I will lose some of that control with lethality (waiting for dots to tick, reapplying corrosive dart, etc). Does anyone have valid input on a pvp lethality build? How is it in PvE as well?

 

Thank you my fellow Cipher's ;)

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So I'm a heavy PvPer, about to hit 50 (48 atm).. I've been marksmen for most of the time, experimented with engineering, but back to marksmen. I'm beginning to realize our damage is being migrated more and more when I thought my higher level would allow for an increase in burst (the burst is great with MM).

 

I'm looking for a change of pace, I see lethality is alot of dots and poisons and INTERNAL damage.. Which completely bypasses armor, but I'm a little afraid to make the heavy change at this stage (already a Centurion valor rank 40). The burst from MM is great and allows me to take large portions of HP away at will, so I worry that I will lose some of that control with lethality (waiting for dots to tick, reapplying corrosive dart, etc). Does anyone have valid input on a pvp lethality build? How is it in PvE as well?

 

Thank you my fellow Cipher's ;)

 

lethality is awful.

 

its only good for ops as part of a hybrid heal spec

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I ran lethality for some time and switched back to MM (54 Valor 535 expertise).

 

Basically lethality IS good for all kinds of reasons like internal damage and mobility, but something I did not like is that the whole spec relies on one channeled attack with CD, that requires a setup on top of that.

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Lethal/engii hybrid(spec to I-probe) is great imo.My experience so far is very good mobility and it's a big difference from MM in the way you play due to the increased mobility. Check out Daniteh on twitchtv. He streams high lvl Lethal PvP.

Personally I'm able to do more damage as Lethal than as MM, especially vs a skilled ops group who won't allow you to stand still and snipe.

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Lethality would be great except for 2 things, your 3 moves nescesarry to do any damage are on large CDs these are weakenign shot which is 15 seconds, Cull 9 secconds and Corrosive greande 12 secs. After you do that you have to go back to fillers like SoS and ambush. If you dont do the set up of Dart, Grenade, Weakening Blast, Cull. Your ST damage is poop. Also...energy is a huge issue with this build. Also it takes 3 secs to drop OB because it isnt talented anymore. I rarely use it now. So my 2 piece set bonus is useless. Hoooooray! The mobility is nice, my numbers in a BG are high, but I contribute less because im dotting others for 2000 in 18 secconds. Thats 1 heal. So in essence im contributing alot of meaningless damage that inflates my numbers where as with MM I might score a little lower but I was killing chumps. Ive gone games where i scored 410k with Lethality but only had 6 killing blows. Hope this helps.
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I've only devoutly played Engineer and Lethality, so I can't give you much in terms of comparison with marksman.

 

That being said, I have a very high opinion of the lethality talent tree, even for snipers. You're right in thinking it's a change of pace. Cover is anywhere from unnecessary to rarely used (depending on your preferendo), you have a very simple, effective rotation, and very high DPS potential.

 

In my experience, the only hurtle lethality presents is energy management, which is significant to be sure, but not hindering. A high crit coupled with the apropos talents can make Lethal Purpose (your main energy regen talent) significantly more effective.

 

I have very few complaints about lethality as a whole, and my playstyle of minimal cover usage and excessive mobility tend to net me better scores than I was earning prior.

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So I'm a heavy PvPer, about to hit 50 (48 atm).. I've been marksmen for most of the time, experimented with engineering, but back to marksmen. I'm beginning to realize our damage is being migrated more and more when I thought my higher level would allow for an increase in burst (the burst is great with MM).

 

I'm looking for a change of pace, I see lethality is alot of dots and poisons and INTERNAL damage.. Which completely bypasses armor, but I'm a little afraid to make the heavy change at this stage (already a Centurion valor rank 40). The burst from MM is great and allows me to take large portions of HP away at will, so I worry that I will lose some of that control with lethality (waiting for dots to tick, reapplying corrosive dart, etc). Does anyone have valid input on a pvp lethality build? How is it in PvE as well?

 

Thank you my fellow Cipher's ;)

 

Valor Rank 54 here.

 

I was dedicated Marksman until about two weeks ago. I had the same feeling about the internal dmg. The dmg from Lethality is much more immediate and dependable (No deflect and junk like that) meaning your energy is ALWAYS utilized and only wasted do to user error. The burst from Cull followed up with Series of Shots is normally enough for me to bring anyone down at will, Expertise or not.

 

Keep in mind however your energy usage with this spec will be alarming upon switching from Marksman. The more targets you have poisoned, the more energy you can regen. On the same page, the more targets your poisoning the less time your destroying someone so you have to be smart about your situation.

 

Kiting became much easier being you don't need cover as often. Keep in mind cover keeps you from being interrupted and losing a Cull is a real pain, so something to be mindful of. Corrosive Nade will keep you in control of the fight for the most part as well. Even if someone LOS you, then won't get far and your DOT's tick for a decent amount. If I get someone low enough, I just let the DOT's finish them off depending on the class.

 

On the absolute downside of Lethality is you no longer have your passive mitigation like Ballistic Dampeners and stuff of that sort. It's very noticeable at first but soon you learn to utilize your "Fight or Flight" mentality a lot more if you haven't already. But like I said with the kiting, the increased mobility really overshadows your lack of passive protection, you have so much more breathing room in terms of staying alive and still railing someone into the ground.

 

The biggest hurdle is energy management. It takes getting used to and a bit of practice. Once you have it down pat, absolutely unstoppable.

 

Link to my build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bcZbcZGbbkrrhdhR.1

 

The points in accuracy can really go where ever you want. You'll notice I skipped a couple of Def talents in the lethality tree. They are nice I suppose but largely unnoticeable in the long run. I've tried many builds using them.

 

-Edit-

 

Forgot to address the mention of "setup". Yes, you have to setup Cull but it hardly hinders you at any given time. I can say that with absolute confidence.

Edited by Digitallyatomic
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Marksman has superior 4.5 second burst. Lethality has superior 7.5 second burst.

 

Marksman has superior sustained DPS while immobile. Lethality has superior sustained DPS while mobile.

 

Marksman has superior damage reduction. Lethality has superior AoE Damage.

 

Marksman can switch targets quickly and without trouble. Lethality doesn't care if he is hitting a tank and mostly bypasses Armor, Shielding, and Defense chance.

 

The choice is yours, both are equally viable in different ways. Personally I switched to Lethality from Marksman at 50 and haven't looked back.

Edited by Ayestes
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So I'm a heavy PvPer, about to hit 50 (48 atm).. I've been marksmen for most of the time, experimented with engineering, but back to marksmen. I'm beginning to realize our damage is being migrated more and more when I thought my higher level would allow for an increase in burst (the burst is great with MM).

 

I'm looking for a change of pace, I see lethality is alot of dots and poisons and INTERNAL damage.. Which completely bypasses armor, but I'm a little afraid to make the heavy change at this stage (already a Centurion valor rank 40). The burst from MM is great and allows me to take large portions of HP away at will, so I worry that I will lose some of that control with lethality (waiting for dots to tick, reapplying corrosive dart, etc). Does anyone have valid input on a pvp lethality build? How is it in PvE as well?

 

Thank you my fellow Cipher's ;)

 

I played MM for 40 levels before I decided to give Leth a try.

 

I don't think I could ever go back to using MM spec. Sure, it has better burst, but your sustained damage and energy generation is MUCH higher.

 

Weakening Blast -> Corrosive Grenade -> Corrosive Dart -> Cull -> Series of Shots = dead healer.

 

Plus it has great mobility too.

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Valor Rank 54 here.

 

I was dedicated Marksman until about two weeks ago. I had the same feeling about the internal dmg. The dmg from Lethality is much more immediate and dependable (No deflect and junk like that) meaning your energy is ALWAYS utilized and only wasted do to user error. The burst from Cull followed up with Series of Shots is normally enough for me to bring anyone down at will, Expertise or not.

 

 

50 sniper, with 1/2 5 piece champions.

 

I can echo this, big MM sniper for a long time and swapped to lethality, but mixed it up with engineering to interrogation probe/improved explosive probe. I am not impressed with going up the engie tree so far for the probe, it feels unneeded with the other dots i can do. I yet need to try lethality up to max.

 

 

Digitally, can you please comment on weakening blast and if it is worth the points vs other options. I am also interested in your damage difference/kills difference between MM and lethality.

 

 

/off topic - I hate the 31 pt marksman talent for pvp =/ Its ok, but feels like a pve dps filler. It's not fun.

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Since Weakening Blast applies to Cull's larger internal damage ticks, it's very much worth it given how cheap it is. It will always utilize the 10 charges and at that point Weakening Blast has done at least a total of 3000 damage? Most of that internal?

 

Weakening Blast is the burst setup for Lethality or the sustained mobile damage if you don't have time to stop and Cull. I don't like Interrogation Probe without EMP Discharge personally, unless you are looking at a sustained damage type of game.

 

As a Fresh 50, my Marksman numbers were around 250k Damage Done. As Lethality, they went up to 350k Damage Done. Now I often pull 480k Damage Done with Champion Gear.

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50 sniper, with 1/2 5 piece champions.

 

I can echo this, big MM sniper for a long time and swapped to lethality, but mixed it up with engineering to interrogation probe/improved explosive probe. I am not impressed with going up the engie tree so far for the probe, it feels unneeded with the other dots i can do. I yet need to try lethality up to max.

 

 

Digitally, can you please comment on weakening blast and if it is worth the points vs other options. I am also interested in your damage difference/kills difference between MM and lethality.

 

 

/off topic - I hate the 31 pt marksman talent for pvp =/ Its ok, but feels like a pve dps filler. It's not fun.

 

Sure. Can try to answer whatever you all need.

 

Weakening blast I normally use in 1v1 scenarios just to give myself an edge. But it's exactly that, an edge. You aren't going to see a super dramatic change in your dmg or find yourself wishing you had weakening blast on a target. The dmg is noticeable but your not going to find yourself in a bind without it on a target. It's like a consumable; You don't need it to kill anyone but it will help you kill them faster. All in all I would say get it, it's one more tool to help you win and is great for folks that want to LOS you just to have your dots tick them down fast enough to counter channeled heals and any dmg healed via main cast.

 

When it comes to over all dmg difference between MM and Leth, your burst last MUCH longer. You aren't going to find yourself waiting on CD's with Lethality simply because you have a LOT to do. Fights are much shorter for me now too. Once I set someone up it's just a Cull then Series of Shots followed up with Take Down (lvl 50 with Expertise), done. The burst is just THAT high and consistent. A tip with this via Consular and Sorc, Rifle shot down their bubble. Your Cull or Series of SHots can destroy the bubble sure, but your better off saving those to kill rather than setup, plus your dots will help bring down the shield quickly.

 

In short when it comes to dmg and ultimately killing... You'll miss MM up to that first time you setup and Cull Someone from 100% to 50-25% and notice you unlocked a Series of Shots God Mode.

 

I feel like I sort of beat around the bush on answering your question, if that's the case just let me know what to clarify.

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