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DMG output concern


xGreco

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This is by no means a QQ post as I am only level 17 and realize a lot can change in 32 levels. However atm, as Jugg my damage feels very underwhelming in both PvP and PvE and even my survival feels not to par. Who knows, maybe I suck, or maybe im at a very dry point in the classes progression but I am just curious as to whether or not things will improve. I have seen juggernauts be very beefy in PvP and very difficult to take down however at the current dmg output levels I am considering rerolling simply because it has frusterated me at times. Any insight in to what my future has in store would be great. TY in advance
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Nobody with on their right mind considers juggernaut to be a dps. Because there is no dps build. You can throw all three talent trees into the garbage can.

 

 

Tanks atm yes, but that will fly by as soon as the WoW warrior noobies start to realize how much better assassins and especially powertechs are at tanking.

Edited by cheezehustla
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The assassin is a fine class, it plays well, but it is in no way the end all be all of tanking. You sir, have spewed little more than vitriol and disparaged every person who disagrees with you.

 

Assassins can do decent sustained damage, they do not burst and do not rate with any DPS class when specced to tank.

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My Juggernaut is level 41 now and his DPS is alot better. I did have some problems at the start however.

 

Got a few videos of sith juggernaut gameplay on my YT channel. So you can see for yourself if you like.

 

But totally agree, other classes pwn compared to me I reckon...... Oh well, still loving it :D

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Assassins can do decent sustained damage, they do not burst and do not rate with any DPS class when specced to tank.

 

 

Yep they do. Still easily out DPS any Vengeance Juggernaut.

 

but it is in no way the end all be all of tanking

 

 

I have never, NEVER met an assassin tank who couldn't hold aggro. And I met ones that would fail collicoid cannon in the right direction after 4 tries and click all their abilities.

Edited by cheezehustla
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Yep they do. Still easily out DPS any Vengeance Juggernaut.

 

 

 

 

I have never, NEVER met an assassin tank who couldn't hold aggro. And I met ones that would fail collicoid cannon in the right direction after 4 tries and click all their abilities.

 

Can you substantiate that claim with a DPS meter? OH WAIT...

 

Levity aside, Vengeance DPS is fine, albiet a bit lower than where it should be. After running some tests on our guild's ghetto DPS test champion mob (it's a secret known to few people!), I had around 1340 DPS sustained which was in the ballpark with a lot of the other dps (lowest was an operative specced into lethality).

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Nobody with on their right mind considers juggernaut to be a dps. Because there is no dps build. You can throw all three talent trees into the garbage can.

 

 

Tanks atm yes, but that will fly by as soon as the WoW warrior noobies start to realize how much better assassins and especially powertechs are at tanking.

 

Facts to support your claims, please? All you post in these forums is 'juggernauts suck' without providing any shred of evidence, not even a personal experience. If you're on a campaign to get people to quit being juggernauts because of how OP they really are, props to you man, you had me fooled.

 

Stop feeding these people false information, please.

 

Now, for OP: Juggernauts are pretty gear-dependent especially when it comes to DPS. As a tank you'll be fine, it takes a little managing of skills to hold aggro (AoE aggro is a different beast - that's currently our biggest weakness but still doable) but you have fantastic mitigation. Juggernauts are by far the best single-target tanks in the game at the moment and I see no reason why that will ever change.

 

For DPS, once again you're really gear-dependent. Vengeance spec is more PvE, single target oriented for more consistent mid-range hits. Rage pushes incredible crits (http://imgur.com/w0Kbh - while yes that's on a level 11, it's also in soresu form. In shii-cho form and against a geared lvl 50 it would still be ~5500) and a huge front-end burst damage, very suitable for PvP

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You guys are hilarious, seriously.

 

Ive been Vengeance since the beginning (currently level 35) and I have not had 1 single problem and Ive come to the conclusion that people do not know how to gear themselves or use their abilities properly. I got to Quesh at level 34 and somebody messaged me saying "Good luck at that level here as a Jugg" well, I solo the elites around without dropping below 80%, so I guess im lucky?

 

Just last night I see 2 Juggs grouped in Quesh, level 37 and 38, with under 8k hp. I am Vengeance stacking strength first, level 34 and I have 8450 hp. So right there Im thinking these guys have no idea how to gear themselves and are probably the ones complaining on the forums.

 

Also I have fully equipped Quinn who heals like an absolute beast now as well as does some decent damage. I didnt even have a problem on the Act 1 boss by myself like a lot of people complained about.

 

Gear yourselves properly (Get every Orange piece you can and update the mods, SIMPLE)

Gear your companion! They need gear too!

Use your abilities properly, get a rotation down that works

USE YOUR INTERRUPT, strong enemies with casting bars HURT so interrupt them

Save force push and choke for key moments. (This is one where I think a lot of people use those for fun or something and dont use them as secondary interrupts)

Force Push + Force Charge gives you unstoppable again. I use this when i get down to about 50% health against an elite, Quinn will be able to pull off a good 2 heals while the enemy is down during this also, so just play smart.

Edited by SADIZTIC
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Facts to support your claims, please? All you post in these forums is 'juggernauts suck' without providing any shred of evidence, not even a personal experience. If you're on a campaign to get people to quit being juggernauts because of how OP they really are, props to you man, you had me fooled.

 

Stop feeding these people false information, please.

 

 

People are getting frustrated. We consistently get outdone by other classes. So either all jugs are terrible players (unlikely) or the class is severely handicapped. To top it off the development of this game does not seem to give a rats arse or are so friggin stupid as to be unable to communicate any future plans to cease our worrying.

 

Now, for OP: Juggernauts are pretty gear-dependent especially when it comes to DPS. As a tank you'll be fine, it takes a little managing of skills to hold aggro (AoE aggro is a different beast - that's currently our biggest weakness but still doable) but you have fantastic mitigation. Juggernauts are by far the best single-target tanks in the game at the moment and I see no reason why that will ever change.

 

This is debatable. Powertech has much less problem kiting, and can damage while kiting. Powertech does not have to worry about knockback or PBAE abilities for the most part. They also have superior AE tanking capabilities.

 

For DPS, once again you're really gear-dependent. Vengeance spec is more PvE, single target oriented for more consistent mid-range hits. Rage pushes incredible crits (http://imgur.com/w0Kbh - while yes that's on a level 11, it's also in soresu form. In shii-cho form and against a geared lvl 50 it would still be ~5500) and a huge front-end burst damage, very suitable for PvP

 

They provide major crits with significant setup steps required. They cannot open with large crits or sustain large crits on every attack. If anything their large "crits" are far to small to be comparable to other classes with large crits that can repeat them fairly consistently.

 

Final Thoughts: The game is fun. It is significantly less fun at 50 when you realize how much easier of a time other classes have in doing nearly everything.

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People are getting frustrated. We consistently get outdone by other classes. So either all jugs are terrible players (unlikely) or the class is severely handicapped. To top it off the development of this game does not seem to give a rats arse or are so friggin stupid as to be unable to communicate any future plans to cease our worrying.

 

Outdone by whom? Jugg is not be it all class, there are some things one classes do better there are some things Jugg can do better.

 

The weakest part for PVE is absence of long time control. This is a real bummer and this create an impression then Jugg is weak. Actually it is the strongest tank in the game or very good dps with some tanking abilities and slightly better survivability, or if you say use soresu with dps tree - mix of both.

 

Due to absence of long CCs we have to work a bit harder then other classes, but no one is better in 1v1 fight.

 

I personally leveled in dps tree with dps companion - it was very risky but mob killing speed was simply amazing.

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As a jugg dps working on nightmare content currently, it really doesn't seem to be doing any less dps than the other classes.

 

Sure I suffer from some melee unfriendly fight designs, but every melee is facing that. So until everyone rolls bounty hunter, you will have a spot in raiding.

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Nobody with on their right mind considers juggernaut to be a dps. Because there is no dps build. You can throw all three talent trees into the garbage can.

 

 

Tanks atm yes, but that will fly by as soon as the WoW warrior noobies start to realize how much better assassins and especially powertechs are at tanking.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfWx_mcAQBY

 

Do not speak if you have no clue what you're speaking about...

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Let me ask one simple question - do you actually have Jug character and how high it's level?

 

Level 50 vengeance spec. I abandoned that character, and am actually enjoying the game playing a medicine spec operative.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfWx_mcAQBY

 

Do not speak if you have no clue what you're speaking about...

 

OOOOHHH AAAAHHH NUMBERS

 

If yu have a pocket healer, exp gear, BG buffs, adrenals and play against bads, anyone can do what was shown in the video and more. Not impressed.

Edited by steinsgate
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Level 50 vengeance spec. I abandoned that character, and am actually enjoying the game playing a medicine spec operative.

 

 

 

OOOOHHH AAAAHHH NUMBERS

 

If yu have a pocket healer, exp gear, BG buffs, adrenals and play against bads, anyone can do what was shown in the video and more. Not impressed.

 

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

So basically youre saying that youre not impressed because someone geared their toon in pvp, has heals, uses the correct buffs and adrenals, knows how to play the class, and happened to kill people in a match? Last time i checked, thats how youre supposed to play MMO's. Thats like saying youre not impressed by large DPS numbers in a raid because someone geared their toon, uses the right buffs and consumables, and knows their class front to back.

 

Fact is, if you took the time to learn how to play jugg, gear him out, and do the things that youre criticizing others for actually doing, then youd prolly do well also. But, it would seem, youre just another jugg baddie, who cant handle the fact that the class takes skill, gear, and the like to play well.

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I am approaching this from a PvP perspective so take that with a grain of salt (50 Juggernaut)

 

Immortal spec: lol, what damage. But you are speccing for tank so don't expect anything but taking longer to die.

 

Vengeance spec: Looks good on paper, but doesn't play particularly well. Lacks burst, has some CC immunity and better survivability than Rage spec. Good PvE spec solo (haven't done raids to can't speak to it in that context).

 

Rage spec: Very nice. Can kill most anything I want (if it doesn't kill me first) and consistently push 250-300k damage and lead in DBs. Some healers are a bit of a pain but I suspect they are better geared than me (only 4 pieces of champ at the moment).

 

 

Now....you might rightly ask if the damage vs. risk ratio is correct and I would say no in that ranged classes can do just as much or more overall damage b/c they can instantly apply it to various targets and tend to not die as much b/c they don't leap into crowds. But the DPS for juggernauts is sufficient to kill things for sure.

 

There has been a dev post indicating they are looking at the survivability of the class and that will be welcome indeed. DPS wise we seem pretty decent though as long as we live to apply it.

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HAHAHAHAHA.

 

So basically youre saying that youre not impressed because someone geared their toon in pvp, has heals, uses the correct buffs and adrenals, knows how to play the class, and happened to kill people in a match? Last time i checked, thats how youre supposed to play MMO's. Thats like saying youre not impressed by large DPS numbers in a raid because someone geared their toon, uses the right buffs and consumables, and knows their class front to back.

 

Fact is, if you took the time to learn how to play jugg, gear him out, and do the things that youre criticizing others for actually doing, then youd prolly do well also. But, it would seem, youre just another jugg baddie, who cant handle the fact that the class takes skill, gear, and the like to play well.

 

No.

 

I'm not impressed because every other class is capable of more with less effort. Correct buffs? Correct adrenals? Does it take skill to say "Hmmm strength = good" and spend your money accordingly? Does it take skill to beat on people who don't know that their class has dozens of means to keep a warrior off of them? Does iit take skill to jump a back-pedaling baddie and 1v1 him while he keyboard turns away from you? Does it take skill to have your buddy queue with you and heal you and only you? Does it take skill to simply play long enough to grind out expertise gear and crush those without it? Does it take skill to ignore objectives in an OBJECTIVE BASED WARZONE and proceed to tunnel vision squishies while the enemy team hold all nodes and is scoring goals in huttball? Do you even realize that every single one of those "big hits" was a super-charged slam in Rage spec, the closest thing Juggs have to viable damage?

 

You take someone smashing a person out of context and try to use it to prove that these situations = all situations. You are positively clueless as to how game balance actually works.

 

Skill is not what the warrior class requires. Tolerance is.

Edited by steinsgate
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No.

 

I'm not impressed because every other class is capable of more with less effort. Correct buffs? Correct adrenals? Does it take skill to say "Hmmm strength = good" and spend your money accordingly? Does it take skill to beat on people who don't know that their class has dozens of means to keep a warrior off of them? Does iit take skill to jump a back-pedaling baddie and 1v1 him while he keyboard turns away from you? Does it take skill to have your buddy queue with you and heal you and only you? Does it take skill to simply play long enough to grind out expertise gear and crush those without it? Does it take skill to ignore objectives in an OBJECTIVE BASED WARZONE and proceed to tunnel vision squishies while the enemy team hold all nodes and is scoring goals in huttball? Do you even realize that every single one of those "big hits" was a super-charged slam in Rage spec, the closest thing Juggs have to viable damage?

 

You take someone smashing a person out of context and try to use it to prove that these situations = all situations. You are positively clueless as to how game balance actually works.

 

Skill is not what the warrior class requires. Tolerance is.

 

Way to take the post completely out of context.

 

First, where did i say skill equals using correct stats, adrenals, buffs, etc.? Nowhere. I simply said you criticized someone for playing their class correctly, at least from a damage standpoint. When i say skill, i mean using every ability at your disposal do give yourself a chance, use your terrain to give yourself an advantage, etc. etc. You said it yourself, other classes can do the same or better, with less effort. In the mmo world, we call classes that need less effort to be effective, faceroll classes. We call classes that need a more talented player to make a said class effective, a skill intensive class. Which is exactly what jugg is. See the difference?

 

Second of all, i know nothing of balance? Exactly where did you read, in my post, that i stated "pvp is balanced for juggs"? You didnt read it because it wasnt in the post. Range has a heavy advantage over juggs and melee in general, maybe more so in this game than any other MMO that ive played. Dont even get me started on the cc. That doesnt mean you go sit in the corner and pout when you get rolled by a ranged class. You simply get better.

 

I have zero PvP gear at 50 (Vengeance), but i make myself effective. I intercede, i single target and aoe taunt, i go toe to toe with pvp geared players and survive, i use the map to my advantage, etc. Do i put incredibly gaudy numbers, absolutely not (average around 150K, 8-10 medals.) But then again, id rather take the time to be effective with a class that everyone says is broken. Why you ask? Because i enjoy it, and im not gonna turn and run from it just because the class is unbalanced and needs work.

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That is 100% about being biochem. Flask + Power or Surge Adrenal

 

Some of those hes not even doing it 100% correctly by stacking crush into a charge with a 4 piece 10% damage bonus after charge proc and he is still hitting like a truck.

 

 

There is a lot about the game people don't know or haven't quite figured out (responding to the point that this video is B.S., when it is not).

Edited by Morsexy
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