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1.1 brings no fix to the skill delay in pvp?


nflstar

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It may be an undocumented change, a lot of the more embarrassing changes happen like that. Better for PR.

 

That said, if it truly hasn't been fixed I'm not resubbing.

 

 

agreed.

 

although i have heard people fix this problem by upgrading to unreasonably expensive computers , i personally have a decent computer that should run this game no problem ( and it does outside of any kind of warzone).

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Its not going to be a quick fix for this one that i guarantee.

 

Open World PVP is alot smoother though the last few days Ive noticed. Ive actually had fun doing it and was able to kill people when it didn't take 3 seconds for an instant cast ability to go off.

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It really is the true, primary #1 problem with the game, not amount of gear you get when you open bags, not warzones not completing when you win them, not biochem or operatives, not flashpoint content, etc.

It must be fixed. I think the game depends on it, certainly in the long run.

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It really is the true, primary #1 problem with the game, not amount of gear you get when you open bags, not warzones not completing when you win them, not biochem or operatives, not flashpoint content, etc.

It must be fixed. I think the game depends on it, certainly in the long run.

 

This...

 

Only thing that really matters for PVP atm is this... everything else is trivial in comparison.

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.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

This isn't something they can just whip up a fix for overnight. Get out of that instant gratification mindset; real coding is hard.

 

First they have to reliably reproduce the bugs, in their labs, so they can track what the code is doing to cause it. THen they have to isolate it to make sure it isn't something on the client end (which, considering this ability delay doesn't affect everyone - ive never once had a problem with it - it might be).

 

If it IS something on the client end, they need to figure out what it is (a bad driver? a third-party process running in the background that is conflicting with a UI call, TCP call, or other process that SWTOR also uses? A motherboard chipset that needs its BIOS updated that is causing network problems? There are hundreds of things it could be) and then figure out if the fix needs to be client side (I.E. - tell the customers to update their BIOS, kill certain 3rd party processes running in the background, or roll back or update drivers) or if it is something that cant be fixed by the client but is still the fault of there machine, you now have to figure out how to code around it, WITHOUT ALSO SCREWING SOMETHING UP FOR OTHERS.

 

If it ISNT something on the client end, you then have to isolate the code, figure out why it is doing what it is doing, where the problem is, find out what other things are attatched to that piece of code and will also have to be rewritten, and then make changes. Then test them, extensively, and hope you didn't break something else. And in a piece of software this large - millions of lines of code - that can take hundreds of man hours just to track down and reliably reproduce the bug.

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight. They're working on it (read the dev posts); when they have something to say, theyll say it.

 

As to the performance thing: I am more and more convicned that this is a client-side issue; that is to say, that it is an issue with individuals computers. My wife and I had a friend of ours and his brother over last night; they brought their computers, both to play some LAN games with others and we did a little SWTOR PvP.

 

They have nearly identical hardware - the elder brother built both machines, and they may actually be identical hardware. One of them has the horrible framerate problems, and one does not.

 

One of them uses the desktop as their primary machine, and thus it is loaded down with 3rd party processes, background applications, drivers, and other gunk. The other primarily uses his laptop as his day to day machine and only games on his desktop PC.

 

Guess which one has problems?

 

Yeah.

 

And something like that is even harder to track down in practice than the ability lag - because there are literally tens of thousands of possible hardware combinations, and the issue doesn't seem to persist with any rhyme or reason even on machines with identical hardware!

 

Code work takes time. Calm down, have some dip. Relax. It's not like theyre just going to not fix it - they WANT your money. They have no interest in losing customers, but the customers also need to chill the crap out and let a little reality sink in. Instant Gratification isn't something you can have with software patches.

 

Get over it.

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.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

This isn't something they can just whip up a fix for overnight. Get out of that instant gratification mindset; real coding is hard.

 

First they have to reliably reproduce the bugs, in their labs, so they can track what the code is doing to cause it. THen they have to isolate it to make sure it isn't something on the client end (which, considering this ability delay doesn't affect everyone - ive never once had a problem with it - it might be).

 

If it IS something on the client end, they need to figure out what it is (a bad driver? a third-party process running in the background that is conflicting with a UI call, TCP call, or other process that SWTOR also uses? A motherboard chipset that needs its BIOS updated that is causing network problems? There are hundreds of things it could be) and then figure out if the fix needs to be client side (I.E. - tell the customers to update their BIOS, kill certain 3rd party processes running in the background, or roll back or update drivers) or if it is something that cant be fixed by the client but is still the fault of there machine, you now have to figure out how to code around it, WITHOUT ALSO SCREWING SOMETHING UP FOR OTHERS.

 

If it ISNT something on the client end, you then have to isolate the code, figure out why it is doing what it is doing, where the problem is, find out what other things are attatched to that piece of code and will also have to be rewritten, and then make changes. Then test them, extensively, and hope you didn't break something else. And in a piece of software this large - millions of lines of code - that can take hundreds of man hours just to track down and reliably reproduce the bug.

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight. They're working on it (read the dev posts); when they have something to say, theyll say it.

 

As to the performance thing: I am more and more convicned that this is a client-side issue; that is to say, that it is an issue with individuals computers. My wife and I had a friend of ours and his brother over last night; they brought their computers, both to play some LAN games with others and we did a little SWTOR PvP.

 

They have nearly identical hardware - the elder brother built both machines, and they may actually be identical hardware. One of them has the horrible framerate problems, and one does not.

 

One of them uses the desktop as their primary machine, and thus it is loaded down with 3rd party processes, background applications, drivers, and other gunk. The other primarily uses his laptop as his day to day machine and only games on his desktop PC.

 

Guess which one has problems?

 

Yeah.

 

And something like that is even harder to track down in practice than the ability lag - because there are literally tens of thousands of possible hardware combinations, and the issue doesn't seem to persist with any rhyme or reason even on machines with identical hardware!

 

Code work takes time. Calm down, have some dip. Relax. It's not like theyre just going to not fix it - they WANT your money. They have no interest in losing customers, but the customers also need to chill the crap out and let a little reality sink in. Instant Gratification isn't something you can have with software patches.

 

Get over it.

 

It's easy to act like that when you dont have this problem.

 

And if it is as hard as you say to fix, then don't you think they should be devoting more team members to this instead of minor changes that are in no way game breaking such as ability delay in pvp?

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.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

This isn't something they can just whip up a fix for overnight. Get out of that instant gratification mindset; real coding is hard.

 

First they have to reliably reproduce the bugs, in their labs, so they can track what the code is doing to cause it. THen they have to isolate it to make sure it isn't something on the client end (which, considering this ability delay doesn't affect everyone - ive never once had a problem with it - it might be).

 

If it IS something on the client end, they need to figure out what it is (a bad driver? a third-party process running in the background that is conflicting with a UI call, TCP call, or other process that SWTOR also uses? A motherboard chipset that needs its BIOS updated that is causing network problems? There are hundreds of things it could be) and then figure out if the fix needs to be client side (I.E. - tell the customers to update their BIOS, kill certain 3rd party processes running in the background, or roll back or update drivers) or if it is something that cant be fixed by the client but is still the fault of there machine, you now have to figure out how to code around it, WITHOUT ALSO SCREWING SOMETHING UP FOR OTHERS.

 

If it ISNT something on the client end, you then have to isolate the code, figure out why it is doing what it is doing, where the problem is, find out what other things are attatched to that piece of code and will also have to be rewritten, and then make changes. Then test them, extensively, and hope you didn't break something else. And in a piece of software this large - millions of lines of code - that can take hundreds of man hours just to track down and reliably reproduce the bug.

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight. They're working on it (read the dev posts); when they have something to say, theyll say it.

 

As to the performance thing: I am more and more convicned that this is a client-side issue; that is to say, that it is an issue with individuals computers. My wife and I had a friend of ours and his brother over last night; they brought their computers, both to play some LAN games with others and we did a little SWTOR PvP.

 

They have nearly identical hardware - the elder brother built both machines, and they may actually be identical hardware. One of them has the horrible framerate problems, and one does not.

 

One of them uses the desktop as their primary machine, and thus it is loaded down with 3rd party processes, background applications, drivers, and other gunk. The other primarily uses his laptop as his day to day machine and only games on his desktop PC.

 

Guess which one has problems?

 

Yeah.

 

And something like that is even harder to track down in practice than the ability lag - because there are literally tens of thousands of possible hardware combinations, and the issue doesn't seem to persist with any rhyme or reason even on machines with identical hardware!

 

Code work takes time. Calm down, have some dip. Relax. It's not like theyre just going to not fix it - they WANT your money. They have no interest in losing customers, but the customers also need to chill the crap out and let a little reality sink in. Instant Gratification isn't something you can have with software patches.

 

Get over it.

 

This is what beta testing is for...

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It may be an undocumented change, a lot of the more embarrassing changes happen like that. Better for PR.

 

That said, if it truly hasn't been fixed I'm not resubbing.

 

Great PR NOT letting people know they actually fixed the most game-breaking thing in the game. All people see is the one hundred million whine posts. Most likely though, they haven't done anything to fix this.

 

.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

Funny, considering the game has been in BETA for who knows how many years. This BUG has been probably reported for seven hundred billion four million sixty six hundred thousand and four times during it, yet still it remains in the game.

 

My guildies and friends are already quitting the game and soon I have to follow as there's no one left :/

Edited by Swie
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agreed.

 

although i have heard people fix this problem by upgrading to unreasonably expensive computers , i personally have a decent computer that should run this game no problem ( and it does outside of any kind of warzone).

 

My PC is already pretty beefy (not godly, but pretty damn good). If I can run skyrim on ultra at 60fps I should get more than 7fps in the aldaraan wz.

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It's easy to act like that when you dont have this problem.

 

And if it is as hard as you say to fix, then don't you think they should be devoting more team members to this instead of minor changes that are in no way game breaking such as ability delay in pvp?

 

If you'd ever worked on anything remotely like this, you'd understand that after a certain number of people, adding more people actually makes it take *longer*.

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agreed.

 

although i have heard people fix this problem by upgrading to unreasonably expensive computers , i personally have a decent computer that should run this game no problem ( and it does outside of any kind of warzone).

 

Yea and most of those people who swear up and down they don't have skill delay will be called out when they post a video. They just don't understand what no skill delay should look like..

Edited by Cyndelx
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.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

This isn't something they can just whip up a fix for overnight. Get out of that instant gratification mindset; real coding is hard.

 

First they have to reliably reproduce the bugs, in their labs, so they can track what the code is doing to cause it. THen they have to isolate it to make sure it isn't something on the client end (which, considering this ability delay doesn't affect everyone - ive never once had a problem with it - it might be).

 

If it IS something on the client end, they need to figure out what it is (a bad driver? a third-party process running in the background that is conflicting with a UI call, TCP call, or other process that SWTOR also uses? A motherboard chipset that needs its BIOS updated that is causing network problems? There are hundreds of things it could be) and then figure out if the fix needs to be client side (I.E. - tell the customers to update their BIOS, kill certain 3rd party processes running in the background, or roll back or update drivers) or if it is something that cant be fixed by the client but is still the fault of there machine, you now have to figure out how to code around it, WITHOUT ALSO SCREWING SOMETHING UP FOR OTHERS.

 

If it ISNT something on the client end, you then have to isolate the code, figure out why it is doing what it is doing, where the problem is, find out what other things are attatched to that piece of code and will also have to be rewritten, and then make changes. Then test them, extensively, and hope you didn't break something else. And in a piece of software this large - millions of lines of code - that can take hundreds of man hours just to track down and reliably reproduce the bug.

 

This stuff doesn't happen overnight. They're working on it (read the dev posts); when they have something to say, theyll say it.

 

As to the performance thing: I am more and more convicned that this is a client-side issue; that is to say, that it is an issue with individuals computers. My wife and I had a friend of ours and his brother over last night; they brought their computers, both to play some LAN games with others and we did a little SWTOR PvP.

 

They have nearly identical hardware - the elder brother built both machines, and they may actually be identical hardware. One of them has the horrible framerate problems, and one does not.

 

One of them uses the desktop as their primary machine, and thus it is loaded down with 3rd party processes, background applications, drivers, and other gunk. The other primarily uses his laptop as his day to day machine and only games on his desktop PC.

 

Guess which one has problems?

 

Yeah.

 

And something like that is even harder to track down in practice than the ability lag - because there are literally tens of thousands of possible hardware combinations, and the issue doesn't seem to persist with any rhyme or reason even on machines with identical hardware!

 

Code work takes time. Calm down, have some dip. Relax. It's not like theyre just going to not fix it - they WANT your money. They have no interest in losing customers, but the customers also need to chill the crap out and let a little reality sink in. Instant Gratification isn't something you can have with software patches.

 

Get over it.

 

Oh really, my pompous friend? Get over it? You're the one with the wall of text here QQing over people's legitimate gamebreaking issues in this game. As was said before, it's easy to white-knight for EA/Bioware when you haven't been having the issue.

 

I've noticed some nights are better than others regarding this issue.

 

My entire guild transferred over to this game and every single one of us, save one, has found endgame pve raids and pvp to be nigh unplayable with the ridiculous lag. It's not even a framerate issue. My frames are 50+ and my ping is 30-90ms and yet I still have almost constant 2-3 second delays on instant cast moves. Casted moves are even worse until I get a chain cast going. It's ridiculous and the game never should have shipped in this state. I will not renew my sub if a fix to this issue is not, at the very least, in the immediate pipeline towards being tested on the ptr. Simple as that. That is how it is and no amount of dip will assuage the issue. :p

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This is what beta testing is for...

 

Had a great professor in college for basic engineering. He stressed, heavily, the need to test designs on a small scale, medium scale, on the computer, etc.

 

then when you would do all your testing, he'd make you build it full size anyway, in a testbed, because "the best scale to test is 10mm to the cm".

 

The beta, at its largest, didnt have even 10% of the people who are playing right now.

 

A lot of these bugs were never seen because there just weren't enough people stressing the game... and i know A LOT of people who got into the Beta who didn't really report much (as an aside, posting a rant on the forums isn't reporting, either, fill out the bug reports) and just viewed it as early-access, eseentially.

 

You CANT find all the bugs in a beta test. It's never happened in history, and it certainly wasn't going to start happening now.

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This game is a single player game with a small sprinkling of multiplayer content. They spent all their money/time on voice acting class quest rather than making a strong innovative MMO

 

 

Dont wait, end your subscriptions, do not reward BioWare for this travesty.

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You can say "have patience" all you want.

 

You can explain the painstaking process of bug-fixing

 

You can attempt to tell us they are working on it and changes are already in the works.

 

You can say all you want about how long it might take for their team to isolate and eliminate this glitch.

 

Sadly, none of these will hold subscribers like you think they will. Those of you without this problem, I envy you. Those of us with it (especially melee) are having to struggle to play PvP and hope it gets better soon. If there is not a fix long after the end of the first month, a lot of people won't be coming back.

 

I understand the issue may take a long time to solve, but I'm obviously not going to pay for that time, and neither will a lot of us.

 

I love this game more than any other I've laid my hands on in 15+ years of gaming, I just want PvP to not be such a bug-ridden, FPS-lagging, glitch-fest. I will probably resub for another month, if there is not a fix by then I am not sure I will be able to force myself to play.

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Oh really, my pompous friend? Get over it? You're the one with the wall of text here QQing over people's legitimate gamebreaking issues in this game. As was said before, it's easy to white-knight for EA/Bioware when you haven't been having the issue.

 

I've noticed some nights are better than others regarding this issue.

 

My entire guild transferred over to this game and every single one of us, save one, has found endgame pve raids and pvp to be nigh unplayable with the ridiculous lag. It's not even a framerate issue. My frames are 50+ and my ping is 30-90ms and yet I still have almost constant 2-3 second delays on instant cast moves. Casted moves are even worse until I get a chain cast going. It's ridiculous and the game never should have shipped in this state. I will not renew my sub if a fix to this issue is not, at the very least, in the immediate pipeline towards being tested on the ptr. Simple as that. That is how it is and no amount of dip will assuage the issue. :p

 

It's also absurdly easy to look like a ******* while never admitting that the problem might be at your end. Ive never seen a single post from people

 

Your entire guild has this issue? Let me guess: they all have "high end gaming rigs" full of 3rd party software from who knows where, about 70 processess running, who knows how many "necessary" 3rd party programs running in the background.. ANY ONE OF WHICH could be causing this issue.

 

Open up your task manager: how many processes do you have running? I've got 35. I dont use Windows as a primary OS, so there isn't a crapload of junk piling up in my system. I do my day to day computing in OSX and only reboot into Windows to play SWTOR (and only then if im going to be doing PvP a lot; otherwise, i just boot it up inside a Parallell's VM and run it on low settings to do my dalies).

 

The sheer arrogance involved in just putting your hands over your ears and assuming it MUST BE a problem in the game itself, and not a problem with your hardware or software configuration on your computer, is staggering.

 

If it was a problem with the game engine (I have a high end gaming rig and get awful FPS!) then it wouldn't perform well for ANYONE. You wouldn't have people with absolutely identical hardware reporting different results - one with amazing performance and one without.

 

Occams Razor, meng.

 

The only thing different in the two machines is their users and the gunk theyve installed. Anything that might overlap a GPU or CPU call with SWTOR could cause a performance destroying conflict.

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.. learn a bit of patience. Maybe go educate yourself on just how hard it is to fix something this big in an MMO.

 

*snip*

 

You know this was reported in beta for a long time, right?

 

Edit: This wasn't some fringe issue. It was widely reported and Bioware did nothing to fix it.

Edited by Parrothead
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