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Why expertise hopefully will stay


tickolol

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I've read countless of threads about people complaining about Expertise and why it should be removed. Imo; it should never. When you raid, you achieve something when you kill that last boss in whatever raid. You should also be able to get that joy out of PvPing. Grinding your PvP gear, getting high valor ranks is what makes the difference of a PvP player and a PvE player. Remove expertise and you just have those good ol' PvE'ers with their full epic tier 1000 gear facerolling everyone. There should be a difference from the "hardcore" PvP players who have dedicated time to grind their PvP gear, and the PvE players who have struggled to down a boss.

 

Mainly the whiners are the 13 year old kids which can't adapt to other players, their mind is restricted to an encounter where the same thing happens all the time. Every. Single. Time.

 

Read this guys, it may help you understand one of the most important things in PvP.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=61363

 

I have also read that expertise in PvP should be removed, and replaced with a PvE expertise. Here is a scenario of why this shouldn't happen:

 

"LF DPS last spot Black talon HM minimum 300 PvE expertise"

 

Now, this blocks people out of the dungeon, in PvP everyone can join, it's no restriction on gear. But if you implement that, no one would ever get into dungeons anymore. So imo, that's, let's call it "retarded".

 

"But BW, my spell isn't working like I want it to". Hold your horses guys, let the developers rest a bit. Lvl up a new toon then, if you're so mad. The game hasn't been officially out for 1 month yet.

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I agree, definitely need to keep the stat in and separate PvP gear from PvE gear. I think most of the complainers are people that mostly PvE and Raid and only PvP casually. To them, it's a fun, yet temporary diversion. They don't understand that PvP needs progression just as much as PvE does. It's just a mini game for them.

 

And because they view PvP in this manner, they don't understand that what makes PvP fun for the people that do it a lot is the fact that it is completely unpredictable and never the same. Compound that with players that are better skilled and geared than them because they worked hard to get there and they just get frustrated because they really just want to jump in and beat on people for a few minutes while their raid group logs in. They're entitled to be frustrated, but they're not entitled to ruin the gameplay of an entire community because they just want to dip their toe in and reap the full benefits.

Edited by Leiloni
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I didn't read your thread because there is no need to.

 

PVP gear has stats besides expertise. It doesn't need to double-dip.

 

Put a flat PVP value on ALL PVP pieces. That makes PVE gear unuseable in PVP but doesn't double-dip to reward gear whoring too much.

 

In PVE you get better gear that gives you better stats. In PVP right now you get better gear that gives you better stats AND a pvp stat so it double dips. That's dumb.

 

Put 50 expertise on all pvp gear no matter what level. Problem solved.

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Im a big time PvPer, but I think having stats only for this or that is silly. General stats across the board makes for better PvP. What you want is an I win against the PvEer becuase I have Bonus Stats against them instead of fight as equals. Skill shows from equally setup toons and whoever win the most has the most skill. Get rid of Expertise.
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I didn't read your thread because there is no need to.

 

PVP gear has stats besides expertise. It doesn't need to double-dip.

 

Put a flat PVP value on ALL PVP pieces. That makes PVE gear unuseable in PVP but doesn't double-dip to reward gear whoring too much.

 

In PVE you get better gear that gives you better stats. In PVP right now you get better gear that gives you better stats AND a pvp stat so it double dips. That's dumb.

 

Put 50 expertise on all pvp gear no matter what level. Problem solved.

 

This is not true. The base stats (Aim, Cunning, Endurance, Strength, Willpower) are much higher on PvE gear than PvP gear because PvP gear has Expertise.

Edited by Leiloni
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I didn't read your thread because there is no need to.

 

PVP gear has stats besides expertise. It doesn't need to double-dip.

 

Put a flat PVP value on ALL PVP pieces. That makes PVE gear unuseable in PVP but doesn't double-dip to reward gear whoring too much.

 

In PVE you get better gear that gives you better stats. In PVP right now you get better gear that gives you better stats AND a pvp stat so it double dips. That's dumb.

 

Put 50 expertise on all pvp gear no matter what level. Problem solved.

 

You do realize it's a reason you get XP in Warzones right? Because they want you to lvl up? They don't want you to stay on lvl 20 the rest of your life because you cba to lvl to 50? The problem with you guys saying you should remove the expertise stat is because you don't have time to dedicate yourself to both aspects of the game.

 

If you like raiding, go raiding. If you like PvPing go PvPing, if you're bored with raiding, then switch to PvP, noone's blocking you from it?

 

And you're saying it's a double-dip? Look at the gear, the PvE gear has more stats to it, "OUH ITS A DOUBLE DIP WE PVPERS ALSO WANT MORE CRIT RATING ON OUR GEAR".

 

Your brain can't wrap around the fact that PvP is also an important aspect of the game, and you have to actually grind to get to the point of good, with good gear, just like you have to in PvE. "MOM, WHY CANT I PLAY LIKE HIM? I ALSO WANT TO HAVE THAT GEAR, BUT I ONLY RAID. PLEASE MOM, CANT YOU SEND A MAIL TO BIOWARE?" You have nothing to complain about.

Edited by tickolol
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I bet if you took out PvP specialized gear, they'd still complain. They'd complain that in order to be the best raider and take out the hardest bosses, they have to work their butts off to learn encounters and earn the best gear. If we could just jump into PvP and be the best with no work put in, that would be hugely imbalanced.
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The whole concept of gear farming is out dated and will be eventually beaten by games that offer fun instead of farm. Take LoL for example ... I log once a day to play a match or two ... don't care about gear or whatever stats, everyone has equal chance in the matches, no I spent 2543 hours in the game so I get automatic win against you 1v1. Just fun that does not require carrot to work.

 

Another example GW2 .. game that developers claim to develop with esport in mind. Again ... no silly gear beats skill. You play, you have equal chance ... just show us your skills.

 

lt;dr Hold onto it, it will probably stay in TOR ... but the concept is flawed in the way TOR or WoW uses it.

Edited by Repefe
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Think before typing.

 

Battlemaster's > Champion's > level 40 gear. This is true whether or not all pieces have equal expertise values.

 

If what you care about is making sure PVE players can't PVP in PVE gear, it makes much more sense to put a flat expertise value on all PVP gear than to use the current system.

 

The only way the current system makes sense is if you want to give players huge PVP advantages based on gear.

 

And it does double dip. There is no two ways about it. Just because you don't understand math doesn't mean the double dip isn't true. Expertise is vastly overvalued compared to the other stats, point for point. Expertise results in a 40% advantage at maxed value. The extra stats you get from converting that expertise into normal stats at the current formula do not provide anywhere near that benefit.

 

Right now we have an absurd situation where gear matters MORE in PVP than it does in PVE.

Edited by yukirshiro
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Im a big time PvPer, but I think having stats only for this or that is silly. General stats across the board makes for better PvP. What you want is an I win against the PvEer becuase I have Bonus Stats against them instead of fight as equals. Skill shows from equally setup toons and whoever win the most has the most skill. Get rid of Expertise.

 

Saying that, is like sayin "Go raid, then PVP, because then you are equal." OR it's like saying "If you grind Warzones before you raid, you have the ultimate gear". It's like you guys post, without even thinking. If the PvP gear and the PvE gear has the same stats, then you can just farm warzones, then you join a start rading because they both earn you the same gear.

 

There needs to be a difference. Period. Think before you post, just a tip, bro.

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The whole concept of gear farming is out dated and will be eventually beaten by games that offer fun instead of farm. Take LoL for example ... I log once a day to play a match or two ... don't care about gear or whatever stats, everyone has equal chance in the matches, no I spent 2543 hours in the game so I get automatic win against you 1v1. Just fun that does not require carrot to work.

 

Another example GW2 .. game that developers claim to develop with esport in mind. Again ... no silly gear beats skill. You play, you have equal chance ... just show us your skills.

 

lt;dr Hold onto it, it will probably stay in TOR ... but the concept is flawed in the way TOR or WoW uses it.

 

You do realize that's two different games? LoL is a MOBA game, TOR is an MMORPG. Try compare an mmorpg with another mmorpg before you do that. Besides, you have to lvl in LoL aswell, so take HoN next time.

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There needs to be a difference. Period. Think before you post, just a tip, bro.

 

And flat expertise on all pvp gear creates the difference without double dipping and disproportionately rewarding gear farming.

 

PVP should be LESS about gear than PVE, not MORE.

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I didn't read your thread because there is no need to.

 

PVP gear has stats besides expertise. It doesn't need to double-dip.

 

Put a flat PVP value on ALL PVP pieces. That makes PVE gear unuseable in PVP but doesn't double-dip to reward gear whoring too much.

 

In PVE you get better gear that gives you better stats. In PVP right now you get better gear that gives you better stats AND a pvp stat so it double dips. That's dumb.

 

Put 50 expertise on all pvp gear no matter what level. Problem solved.

 

Expertise takes up a stat slot that could be used by alacrity/crit/surge/power/accuracy otherwise.

 

Just sayin

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You do realize that's two different games? LoL is a MOBA game, TOR is an MMORPG. Try compare an mmorpg with another mmorpg before you do that. Besides, you have to lvl in LoL aswell, so take HoN next time.

 

The important thing to realize is that LoL is successful PvP game that has class mechanics that would work in MMO and like I said ... GW2 goes that route. No silly farming where you have to earn fair gameplay ... fair play from the start.

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And flat expertise on all pvp gear creates the difference without double dipping and disproportionately rewarding gear farming.

 

PVP should be LESS about gear than PVE, not MORE.

 

Why should PvP be less about gear? If you don't mind me asking.

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Why should PvP be less about gear? If you don't mind me asking.

 

Because you're fighting other players, not computer generated numbers.

 

The droids you pwn in the foundry don't care that you pwned them based on your superior gear. It doesn't diminish their experience.

 

PVP is different. PVP is about PLAYERS matching their abilities against one another. It's an MMO so gear is always going to have SOME effect but if gear is the determining factor there is no reason to PVP at all.

 

A gear grind works fine in PVE because they can always just introduce new instances with higher tuned numbers.

 

In PVP a gear-dominated game just results in people who got in first dominating everyone below them on the pyramid, which ultimately is satisfying for no one.

 

PVP gear should provide modest benefits, not huge ones.

Edited by yukirshiro
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/sign I like the idea of gear progression in PVP being differentiated to PVE, because it sucks when you work hard to get full PVP gear and then some PVE guy comes in with their raid gear that it just overpowered in PVP and ruins it.

 

In wow at one point the PVP gear was 2 tiers behind and anyone could just destroy a pvp geared person in their raid gear. I don't think it should be completely unusable in PVP i just think if you spend the time to get full PVP gear you should have a gear advantage over someone who just jumps in when he's bored.

 

Its the same thing in PVE, you have to have x, y, or z to get into the raid. Don't say that doesn't happen in this game people are already starting it.

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The important thing to realize is that LoL is successful PvP game that has class mechanics that would work in MMO and like I said ... GW2 goes that route. No silly farming where you have to earn fair gameplay ... fair play from the start.

 

Oh poor guy, you have to do something to get gear? I bet you are having a hard time beating those big bad lvl 50's who already spent time getting the good gear, aren't you?

 

Go play LoL then, if that's so much better. LoL has 4 abilities withing each "class", or champion, like us normal people would call it. + those 2 summoner spells you can use. There's a big difference between 6 spells and 40.

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Hello, I turned 13 on january the second and i love this expertise stat. In other games i had to pvp with pve gear because it was sooo much better but now ii can just stick with pvping. Please dont say that all 13 yrolds are idiots because some of us are not.

Major Blackburn Striker - The ebon hawk

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Normalize stats on gear in warzones. Remove expertise. Make PvP rewards not gear based (i.e. make them emotes/wardrobe items/mounts etc). Have balanced PvP. Win.

 

EDIT: I should add, I am a PvPer and will not be participating in raids.

Edited by Rehash
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Because you're fighting other players, not computer generated numbers.

 

The droids you pwn in the foundry don't care that you pwned them based on your superior gear. It doesn't diminish their experience.

 

PVP is different. PVP is about PLAYERS matching their abilities against one another. It's an MMO so gear is always going to have SOME effect but if gear is the determining factor there is no reason to PVP at all.

 

A gear grind works fine in PVE because they can always just introduce new instances with higher tuned numbers.

 

In PVP a gear-dominated game just results in people who got in first dominating everyone below them on the pyramid, which ultimately is satisfying for no one.

 

PVP gear should provide modest benefits, not huge ones.

 

And there's the problem right there. In PvP you have to ADAPT to the other player. The gear has an impact of the game, yes, but that's the point. But a huge factor is if you can actually adapt to what the other team is doing. If you think you can just join a warzone and look at it like a dumb raidboss where you stand behind your cover pressing your Q and E spell all around town until you see an inquisitor use force storm and think it's a new phase and you have to move, then you have gotten PvP all wrong. And if you think that gear shouldn't matter because you're afraid that the other person would rage because you own it up in a warzone, then you aren't suited for any other game than peggle.

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And there's the problem right there. In PvP you have to ADAPT to the other player. The gear has an impact of the game, yes, but that's the point. But a huge factor is if you can actually adapt to what the other team is doing. If you think you can just join a warzone and look at it like a dumb raidboss where you stand behind your cover pressing your Q and E spell all around town until you see an inquisitor use force storm and think it's a new phase and you have to move, then you have gotten PvP all wrong. And if you think that gear shouldn't matter because you're afraid that the other person would rage because you own it up in a warzone, then you aren't suited for any other game than peggle.

 

Hey, if you are so good at PvP, why do you need a gear advantage?

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