Mr_Gallows Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The level 50 PvP bracket will help with the issues. It's comming in the 1.1 patch.
wtfnonamefree Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I have been playing Bloodline Champios almost exclusively in 2011. It's a MOBA game on the surface, but is actually an arena pvp game with WASD controls and totaly skillbased. One of its main features was, that there was no grind necessary and an equal playing ground for everyone - when you play a class, you have hte exact same stats as every other player playing said class. There was nothing you could do to tweak or buff your character, only cosmetic changes could be done. The developers are a small swedish company and the game didn't really take off, despite its unique features and critically acclaimed gameplay. Problem was (amongst many others, though) - it gets stale soon. So at one point the Devs decided to implement character progression. Some claim this would've killed the game, but actually it seems to haven't changed anything, really. Before, the people qqed on the forums about certain classes being op, later they simply added the progression stuff to their river of tears. I think this could be transferred to OP's suggestion. When everyone has the same gear, it is the classes you'll cry about. Gearing just takes some time. Devs do it to make you play the game and renew your subscription - it gives you a feel of progression and change and an incentive to play. Nothing keeps you from gearing up yourself. It's an mmo, deal with it.
Almghty_gir Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I disagree, There needs to be a progressive track for players who prefer to PvP especially in an MMO setting. Cosmetics aren't enough and creating new sets with higher stats for higher ranked players only feeds the imbalance. I'll humor you though. No expertise involved. Take a noobie level 50 and stack him against a Veteran who has better gear and neither of them have any expertise and it still isn't really a fair fight right? Now if the fresh 50 can craft or buy expertise gear and have just half of the expertise that the veteran has he'd have a fighting chance because it wouldn't get *** nuked so hard out of existence. I'm just talking about 1v1's here. Put him into a team fight and you couldn't even count the seconds that he'd get blown away if he had no expertise. So you see expertise is definitely a necessity. Don't even get me started on how absolutely imbalanced everything was in Vanilla WoW. Anyway there are plenty of games that have what you want. LoL, HoN, Dota, any FPS game, etc. Fresh and even start. except that in your example it's even worse for the new 50 BECAUSE expertise is involved... someone hits 50, goes into a warzone, fights existing 50's in champ/battlelord gear with expertise coming out their ears... yeah go figure, not only do they have more experience in the game, and better base stats on their gear, but they also gain a passive damage bonus/reduction against the new guy.
Repefe Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 No, just go work on getting your gear better. Can't ... I am not lvl 50
Asnine Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Why expertise though? Why not make pvp gear more focused towards burst damage, while pve gear more focused towards sustained damage? That way pvp gear STILL gives you an advantage in pvp (because in pvp burst is king) without making an essentially 20% difference.
Sulmithagreyse Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Many people are complaining about Expertise and I agree. I would take it further and require everyone to wear a the same class-specific suit of generic non-bonus armor when PvPing. This would take item mismatches completely out of the mix and any difference between the abilities of players would be determined by the skill of the player. 100% of games with different types of classes are not only about skill. pvp that is all about skill has no different classes with different abilities and they don't have armor with stats
Dogfatherxx Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Expertise is likely here to stay, not that it makes a huge differance when everyone is level 50 and both teams have people with the gear. Once the 50s bracket is in place, the minor advantages that expertise-geared players have will be even less important.
BDutch Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 A lot of people these days only do anything in an MMO for gear. To them that's pretty much what an MMO is all about. They want another gear grind the moment they are finished with their current one. Just something to keep in mind. You may be thinking about how to work gear into the best PvP system. He may be thinking about how to work PvP into the best gear treadmill.
Asnine Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Expertise is likely here to stay, not that it makes a huge differance when everyone is level 50 and both teams have people with the gear. Once the 50s bracket is in place, the minor advantages that expertise-geared players have will be even less important. 50's bracket doesn't solve anything. Fresh 50's will still get murdered due to 10% more damage taken while having their damage being reduced by 10% (an almost 20% swing) Take a 50 without any of the expertise gear. I guarantee you a good 40 or 30 has at least a decent chance to kill said 50 if they're more "skilled" Edited January 12, 2012 by Asnine
cycao Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 thats what i loved about SWG the lvl system with the 250 skill points was just the best. A good combination of classes could own anyone with the best crafted weapons and armor
Dogfatherxx Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 50's bracket doesn't solve anything. Fresh 50's will still get murdered due to 10% more damage taken while having their damage being reduced by 10% (an almost 20% swing) Take a 50 without any of the expertise gear. I guarantee you a good 40 or 30 has at least a decent chance to kill said 50 if they're more "skilled" The point is that the expertise gear is likely not going to go anywhere, so hypothetical discussions of it not existing are kind of pointless. Since expertise gear exists and 50s have all of their skills available to them, a 50s bracket will solve at least part of the problem. Sure, new 50s will have a big wake up call when they first enter the new bracket, but at least everyone playing will have all their skills and there will not likely be situations where an entire team would be made up of people with no expertise gear vs premades made almost entirely of it. With the way the things are now, that is a common occurance. Being a 50 myself, I can not remember a time that I lost to anyone 49 and below in a one on one situation...and I don't even consider myself a great pvper. At the end of the day, SWTOR is a gear based MMO. Being so, there will always be gear that gives those that PVP regularly an advantage over those that don't. People might not agree with it, but that is just the way it is now and likely will continue to be.
Rivianchief Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I love how people in here bash the OP because he demands a more fair pvp environment (and he has a point there). If you browse through the forums you see people ************ about ability delay, the same people that are in here telling the OP to go play COD or MW. No offense but I have seen some of you crying about ability delay and how unfair it is. Basically it comes down to having a disadvantage vs another player. Now the OP says that gear should be equally good, so its fair pvp. Basically he states that having a disadvantage vs another player should be banned, so pvp can be more competitive. What you demand in one post you deny in another. Gj Hypocrites! Edited January 12, 2012 by Notannos inappropriate/rude content
wtfnonamefree Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I love how people in here bash the OP because he demands a more fair pvp environment (and he has a point there). If you browse through the forums you see people ************ about ability delay, the same people that are in here telling the OP to go play COD or MW. No offense but I have seen some of you crying about ability delay and how unfair it is. Basically it comes down to having a disadvantage vs another player. Now the OP says that gear should be equally good, so its fair pvp. Basically he states that having a disadvantage vs another player should be banned, so pvp can be more competitive. What you demand in one post you deny in another. Gj Hypocrites! OT: The obvious difference is that one thing can be changed by the player (gear), while the other cannot be changed by the player (engine delay). GJ You rude person, who is not able to think something through, but stil spews insults on the internet for whatever reason you might have! Edited January 12, 2012 by Notannos inappropriate/rude quote
Tharrn Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I had most fun in PvP during the first week or two when no one had that dratted expertise gear yet. There were no ROFLSTOMPs and you didn't look at your team list before the match knowing you'll loose just because you only have two 50s...
Rivianchief Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Nice job, using handicaps as an insult. OT: The obvious difference is that one thing can be changed by the player (gear), while the other cannot be changed by the player (engine delay). GJ You rude person, who is not able to think something through, but stil spews insults on the internet for whatever reason you might have! First of all its great to see that apparently any time someone questions the functionality of your brain with the word "handicapped" you need to outcry that this person obviously insulted everyone with a handicap IRL. Regardless of the fact that "handicapped" stands for a lot of disabilities not just for one. Gj in putting everyone in the same pot! Its amazing how you managed to draw the connection from me using the term "handicapped", thus insulting your inability to see your hypocritical nature, to me hating on handicapped people IRL. I bet you are one of those guys that call a director/screenwriter "racist" because they didn't hire an african american to take the leading role in their most recent movie. OT: Your argument is still ******** because TOR delivers an environment that gets you gear randomly. I get my gear based on pure luck in the game, thus resulting in an inability to change that (except playing the game). It doesn't matter if I open my champions bag on my Sorcerer or my Sage. In the end there will always be disadvantages (in terms of gear) that can not be changed by the player itself, resulting in the fact that your comparison is bul*lcrap Edited January 12, 2012 by Rivianchief
Khoraji Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 No, just go work on getting your gear better. If you want a FPS with all the same characters wearing the same things then go play that type of game. This. MMO is about making your Character better, and somewhat the player. Play FPS if you want pure player skill PVP.
Asnine Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The point is that the expertise gear is likely not going to go anywhere, so hypothetical discussions of it not existing are kind of pointless. Since expertise gear exists and 50s have all of their skills available to them, a 50s bracket will solve at least part of the problem. Sure, new 50s will have a big wake up call when they first enter the new bracket, but at least everyone playing will have all their skills and there will not likely be situations where an entire team would be made up of people with no expertise gear vs premades made almost entirely of it. With the way the things are now, that is a common occurance. Being a 50 myself, I can not remember a time that I lost to anyone 49 and below in a one on one situation...and I don't even consider myself a great pvper. At the end of the day, SWTOR is a gear based MMO. Being so, there will always be gear that gives those that PVP regularly an advantage over those that don't. People might not agree with it, but that is just the way it is now and likely will continue to be. I understand that expertise MOST likely isn't going to go away. That doesn't mean that we can't at least discuss it, and fantasize about a better way of doing things As for the sub 50 vs 50's - before everyone got expertise gear I at least FELT (and definitely killed) like I had a chance against 50's (without expertise) when I was in my 30's. Now, on my 50 with expertise gear I really don't see how it'd be possible for a sub 50 without expertise to come close to killing me 1v1
Kimasoko Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Many people are complaining about Expertise and I agree. I would take it further and require everyone to wear a the same class-specific suit of generic non-bonus armor when PvPing. This would take item mismatches completely out of the mix and any difference between the abilities of players would be determined by the skill of the player. Your playing the wrong game if your lOoking for skill based pvp. Theres other games put there for you.
briboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Now the game is getting to the point where players are at high levels the bullying has started. I can't see how anyone can get any satisfaction out of smashing someone into the ground who is 12 levels below them. All I do now is let them have their jollies and simply go to the med center when they have done with me and carry on doing my mission!
Ancient_karp Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Since when is pvp in an MMO about skill? It's about levels and gear. It always has been. Want a skill-based pvp MMO? Play World of Tanks. Excellent skill based pvp.
Gouzukai Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Maybe we should make something clear for thos people who only played counterstrike and think mmo's should be the same. THIS IS A MMORPG. That being clear, EQUIPMENT AND GRIND ARE MENDATORY. Don'T play this game if you don't want the math and gearing behind that. Play an onlineshooter, dota or bloodlinechampions if you want perfect balance without stats. It would be a total waste of programming if you make a game for years with thousands of possibilities to entertain yourself and then put all away and make a perfect balanced pvp part of it where nothing you did in this game matters anymore. MMO'S are about progressing. Ofc with pvp is always skill involved and so people do easaly get frustrated when not winning by pure playstyle. But srlsly, DEAL WITH IT or play something else. I am so sick of reading what all the people who bought this game expected and are now dissapointed... W T F then don't buy it for buck sake. I find this game resembles briliantly the idea of star wars and there has never been a better attempt to do this, and still only complaints. No matter where i go complaining seems to be oour special power.
wtfnonamefree Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 First of all its great to see that apparently any time someone questions the functionality of your brain with the word "handicapped" you need to outcry that this person obviously insulted everyone with a handicap IRL. Regardless of the fact that "handicapped" stands for a lot of disabilities not just for one. Gj in putting everyone in the same pot! Its amazing how you managed to draw the connection from me using the term "handicapped", thus insulting your inability to see your hypocritical nature, to me hating on handicapped people IRL. I bet you are one of those guys that call a director/screenwriter "racist" because they didn't hire an african american to take the leading role in their most recent movie. OT: Your argument is still ******** because TOR delivers an environment that gets you gear randomly. I get my gear based on pure luck in the game, thus resulting in an inability to change that (except playing the game). It doesn't matter if I open my champions bag on my Sorcerer or my Sage. In the end there will always be disadvantages (in terms of gear) that can not be changed by the player itself, resulting in the fact that your comparison is bul*lcrap Now I can only feel sorry for you, seeing all that anger and frustration bothering you to voice your opinion in such a way. Your strange way of protecting your ethical failure does not divert from the fact, you clearly intended your wording to be an insult - which is so wrong on many layers, but it is the internet and you are frustrated, I know. Back on topic, even if there is randomness in the process of pvp gear acquisition, it is only a matter of time until you'l eventually have everything you want/need. Please note, that I do not like the rng in it either, but seriously there is no unfairness in it at all. Where does all that entitlement and fear of missing out on something come from. This game is how old? Not even a month and you already complain about not having everything someone else has. If this was the kind of game that aims at a competitive crowd, I would second your demand of having everyone on equal level - but this is an mmo, where the focus does not lie on competitive pvp, but rather, where everything in the end more or less boils down to character progression and social gaming in various ways. As others pointed out - This is not the game you are looking for.
MonsAlpha Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I find knifing people, and just that, to be quite fun! I'm kidding, I don't even have one of those broken classes. And don't say it's not broken just because YOU don't want your class to be nerfed.
Mrshush Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 id suggest finding a pvp based game with pve available not a pve game with pvp available
wtfnonamefree Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Play an onlineshooter, dota or bloodlinechampions if you want perfect balance without stats. Oh dude, you haven't logged in for a while, did ya? Patch 2.0 brought character progression, because people cba to play the game anymore.
Recommended Posts