jaenisch Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Where are the open world bases we can take over and push our sides front lines? I think BW owns DAoC, why would they not take from one of the best and add it to their new game? 1) Keeps (bases, cities) 2) Siege equipment (turrets, at-at) 3) Realm ranks (valor levels, yay got one!) 4) Realm abilities (*?Legacy levels??, but not really since they are gained from all exp) I do feel like the skill tree is so WEAK that its almost like realm abilities. 2% here and there helps, but they are nothing like the skills you get from just leveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know I miss keep battles form WAR, but I came to a realization a while ago; Theme Park MMOs will never, ever have meaningful world PvP. There's nothing really to fight for, and in the end, though a few skirmishes may happen, the result will be constant trading for quests to get rewards that eventually people won't even use in the end past showing off to their friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I think BW owns DAoC, why would they not take from one of the best and add it to their new game? For the same reason EA forced Mythic into making the mediocre game WAR when it could have been so much better. They find this great company called Mythic and purchase them. Mythic made what was empirically one of the best PvP games ever - DAoC. EA thinks "Great! We got a team of PvP experts working for us!" They then proceed to tell that team "No no no, no all that stuff you did which was awesome, that's not popular. No, games like WoW are popular. Copy them. Guild controlled stuff? Motivation to Open World PvP? No no no you guys don't understand, people want WoW, that's not in WoW. People want to grind midlessly for shiny things, whether it be in PvE or PvP...like in WoW. Just make WoW, OK? God you guys have no idea how to make a product that will sell, all that stuff you're talking about sounds nothing like WoW." And thus mediocre games like WAR and SWTOR are born, when they could have been so much better. The rush for the almighty dollar and the desire to appeal to 100% of the MMO playerbase rather than making an epic product to appeal to a smaller playerbase crushes all innovation and passion in this industry. Edited January 12, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaenisch Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Whats funny is I still play DAoC on lower graphics, because the content is there and I feel no need to pretty it up. I feel like SWTOR is real pretty and it has so many people in a trance that they are blinded. I actually have had people in my guild talk about how good the story was. And I reply; "dude, we just played 3 straight games of huttball, won all three but only one actually counted towards the daily." or.. "I just farmed Ilum, takes 5 mins, did you do yours?" Let me turn in these 5 champ bags. No items today. Theres always tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixil Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 DAoC is the best video game I've ever played hands down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virindi_UO Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Open world pvp worked in DAOC only because it had 3 factions to force balance. SWTOR ****ed itself because it only has 2. Any game with no more than 2 factions will never have meaningful open world pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havocis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 DAOC is the only REAL PvP MMO, the rest just try to copy WoW anymore and use their flawed system of PvP gear grind. Screw PvPing for armor, augment increases in stats and skills are the way to go. Realm rank was what kept people RvRing in DAOC not better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarpill Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The original DAoC design team is no longer at Mythic. Gabe did PvP for WAR, not DAoC. Also, as much as I love DAoC (and I do -- I miss it still and no PvP system will beat it), it won't work in modern MMOs because the only reward PvPers in DAoC really got was RRs. People these days want gear and lootz. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havocis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Open world pvp worked in DAOC only because it had 3 factions to force balance. SWTOR ****ed itself because it only has 2. Any game with no more than 2 factions will never have meaningful open world pvp. That is soo not true, on Galahad we called Midgard "the rare spawns". It was mostly Hib vs Alb with a guild or 2 Mid running in to add. DAOC PvP worked cause it was NOT PvP for gear it was RvR to protect your realm and increase your realm rank which is what made you stronger. Now PvP is about who invests the most time to get the most resil or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 DAOC is the only REAL PvP MMO, the rest just try to copy WoW anymore and use their flawed system of PvP gear grind. Screw PvPing for armor, augment increases in stats and skills are the way to go. Realm rank was what kept people RvRing in DAOC not better gear. Guild Wars beats DAoC, after that DAoC, after that Darkfalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Guild Wars beats DAoC, after that DAoC, after that Darkfalls. Darkfall came off strong imo. A shame it strangled itself shortly after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I liked Shadowbane. Knock PvE out of the way in 1 day, move onto the real meat and bones of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniWes Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Star Wars Galaxies was pretty strong with rewardless world PVP as well. The only thing you would get is faction rating, for which you could get titles, or eventually spend them on faction goodies, like an ATST or stormtrooper armor. None of which were actually useful, but mostly for looks. Player cities, especially on Lok would often be the stage of massive battles and city mayors could also place bases in their cities which would inevitably draw out members of the opposing faction to destroy them. The reason people did (world) PVP in SWG was because of the thrill of the hunt, doing something with your mates. There were no gief epix plx battlegrounds, where the objectives are all that matters and killing the opposing faction is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kebabz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 For the same reason EA forced Mythic into making the mediocre game WAR when it could have been so much better. They find this great company called Mythic and purchase them. Mythic made what was empirically one of the best PvP games ever - DAoC. EA thinks "Great! We got a team of PvP experts working for us!" They then proceed to tell that team "No no no, no all that stuff you did which was awesome, that's not popular. No, games like WoW are popular. Copy them. Guild controlled stuff? Motivation to Open World PvP? No no no you guys don't understand, people want WoW, that's not in WoW. People want to grind midlessly for shiny things, whether it be in PvE or PvP...like in WoW. Just make WoW, OK? God you guys have no idea how to make a product that will sell, all that stuff you're talking about sounds nothing like WoW." And thus mediocre games like WAR and SWTOR are born, when they could have been so much better. The rush for the almighty dollar and the desire to appeal to 100% of the MMO playerbase rather than making an epic product to appeal to a smaller playerbase crushes all innovation and passion in this industry. ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kebabz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh.. for those missing the epic mmo days.... http://www.archeage.com/en/contents/gameinfos/system/39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was hoping, and slightly led to believe, a DAoC type system was going to be in this game. All i see so far is more BGs/CTF. I'm still levelling currently so it hasn't affected me too much, but I'm certain it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 For the same reason EA forced Mythic into making the mediocre game WAR when it could have been so much better. They find this great company called Mythic and purchase them. Mythic made what was empirically one of the best PvP games ever - DAoC. EA thinks "Great! We got a team of PvP experts working for us!" They then proceed to tell that team "No no no, no all that stuff you did which was awesome, that's not popular. No, games like WoW are popular. Copy them. Guild controlled stuff? Motivation to Open World PvP? No no no you guys don't understand, people want WoW, that's not in WoW. People want to grind midlessly for shiny things, whether it be in PvE or PvP...like in WoW. Just make WoW, OK? God you guys have no idea how to make a product that will sell, all that stuff you're talking about sounds nothing like WoW." And thus mediocre games like WAR and SWTOR are born, when they could have been so much better. The rush for the almighty dollar and the desire to appeal to 100% of the MMO playerbase rather than making an epic product to appeal to a smaller playerbase crushes all innovation and passion in this industry. This isn't what happened at all. EA purchased Mythic based on the long developed alpha and beta clients of Warhammer. EA had seen Warhammer, and seen what Mythic intended to do with it, BEFORE they purchased the studio. The same applies to Bioware. In both cases, EA purchased the teams based on product those teams had already been developing for a considerable period of time. In both cases the purchase allowed the teams to continue development for an extended period of time due to increased cash flow, and EA - especially with Bioware - had limited oversight when it came to the development of the game. Perhaps EA did impart some influence on the game but that is hardly surprising. To blame all of the ills in War and SWTOR on EA, however, is a tedious misrepresentation of the facts on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harooo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh.. for those missing the epic mmo days.... http://www.archeage.com/en/contents/gameinfos/system/39 I've followed this game for some time and can only agree that it seems like they've taken all the good elements of the "good ol' day's" mmos and funneled them into this game. I believe I can say: finally a game that wants to progress the mmo genre, not regress it into the narrow perspective, small surfaced, baby powdered, pve-centered, blabla.. mmos we have seen of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kebabz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've followed this game for some time and can only agree that it seems like they've taken all the good elements of the "good ol' day's" mmos and funneled them into this game. I believe I can say: finally a game that wants to progress the mmo genre, not regress it into the narrow perspective, small surfaced, baby powdered, pve-centered, blabla.. mmos we have seen of late. Thank god somebody else has taken notice. There is a light in the end of the tunnel. The long... dark... wet... moist... tunnel of mentally challenged mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balmorius Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) The original DAoC design team is no longer at Mythic. Gabe did PvP for WAR, not DAoC. Also, as much as I love DAoC (and I do -- I miss it still and no PvP system will beat it), it won't work in modern MMOs because the only reward PvPers in DAoC really got was RRs. People these days want gear and lootz. Unfortunately. If you pay attention to most modern MMO's you will constantly see posts like the OP here.. begging pleading wanting NEEDING something like DAoC. To say that it wouldn't work in modern MMO's is sillyness. As far as making it work in a two faction game it would be rough, as one side would out balance the other for population reasons alone. Things that shine will always and forever taint MMO's since wow's release but you can add those in PvE. The folks that PvP and make the game last are the one's that do it for the titles, or the prestige.. the Gimme Gimme's are the folks that tend to kill MMO's because they flash level and grind out all the new content in a power month of playing and then get bored... it is self inflicted boredom, but it kills games when they need subs the most (the beginning when they need the cash to pay devs to fix games etc). in response to the original post.. I agree /signed etc etc but sadly without a third faction it may hurt a little more then do good. Edited January 12, 2012 by Balmorius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefwakka Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Nostalgia and its rose-tinted glasses. Funny no one says.... Oh, don't you remember Stunguard...... Scouts at launch, made Operatives look like piss ants,could hit you at clip range....wait, how did our clothie just die out of nowhere?..... How awesome were buffbots, 2 accounts to just be a viable stealther, so awesomesauce.... Smite clerics were so balanced...... Oh, remember our 16-man group treks into Emain only to run into the 250-man Alb zerg that would proceed to wait outside our realm keep for 2 hours? Oh wait, we would go zerg Svasude Faste instead since Mids are LOL in our realm..... Exploited relic keep defenses for a free relic for the Alb zerg that was never acknowledged..... Artifacts that took 6 weeks of grinding mobs hours a day that required a group of 8 to take down, so fun...... /end sarcasm Ending my rant with ToC since I think that's when we can all agree things were going downhill. I loved the game too, but stop looking through tinted glasses....even the best games had it's share of issues. Oh wait....1 more! DRAGONFANG! Edited January 12, 2012 by Chiefwakka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terz- Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I just want to see a kind of RvR system... A FULL contested planet just for make RvR. That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) For every 1 person who loves open world pvp, there are 9 people who played on a server(any MMO) that were outnumbered so badly that open world PVP become little more than "hunt for the lonely enemy faction members". Also I played DAOC, it wasn't all people make it out to be. I think people have a serious case of rose tinted glasses with that game, the same way they do UO. Edited January 12, 2012 by Vlaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonSoot Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As a member of Conquest in DAOC (Merlin/Andred/Mordred) I can say, hands down PvP in DAOC was THE BEST MMO PVP ever made. Planetside #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) DAoC was amazing, but it wasn't just about realm ranks. Owning hostile relics also gave everyone on your realm stat bonuses across the board (I believe it was 5% of x where x was a type of stat depending on the relic owned). On top of that, owning battleground keeps would unlock a neutral dungeon for your faction. If the enemies retook the battlegrounds then the dungeon would be locked to your realm. If you happened to be in that dungeon, then you had to fight to stay because suddenly enemy realm people were entering it. What killed DAoC for me was buffbots, runspeed "zergs", and the artifact expansion. Edited January 12, 2012 by RpTheHotrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts