Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Gestas]

Honestly, I don't care either way...

 

But I'd be interested in a MMORPG that didn't have or support damage meters, because I think such a game would attract a different kind of gamer. The players wouldn't be as uptight, elitist, and annoying, at least in this regard.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Gestas

[Truga]

Honestly, I don't care either way...

 

But I'd be interested in a MMORPG that didn't have or support damage meters, because I think such a game would attract a different kind of gamer.

 

Maybe, but I doubt it. I will still parse my combat once I hit end-game, and I am still going to calculate the best possible rotations for any kind of situation. And there will be players like me, whether you like it or not.

 

The players wouldn't be as uptight, elitist, and annoying, at least in this regard.

 

No.

 

As much as I'm against mods coming into this game, this doesn't have anything to do with it. If the community is made of jerks, they'll be jerks whether they have add-ons or not. If they don't have add-ons they'll be jerks about something else.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Truga

[AlpsStranger]

As much as I'm against mods coming into this game, this doesn't have anything to do with it. If the community is made of jerks, they'll be jerks whether they have add-ons or not. If they don't have add-ons they'll be jerks about something else.

 

I really have a hard time wrapping my head around your opposition to mods. You admirably see through the party line about elitism. You say that you *personally* don't want addons, but yet you feel that pugs you've talked to don't want them...

 

Your opposition to addons becomes more confusing to me by the day Truga. I predict that you'll hop over the fence soon

 

I think many people that you casually ask about addons in-game only understand them in "+5 trainer" or "cheat code" terms. Their opposition is innocent ignorance and they will fall in line once they actually try a few.

 

I still maintain that we'll have addons and all be happier for it once the dust settles.

Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Gestas]

And there will be players like me, whether you like it or not.

 

I guess I'm just going to be forced to troll you in-game and in vent, then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ the rest of your post.

 

No.

[Propanelgen]

If you want everything in a game to be so easy, why dont you just play Minesweeper?

 

I support every effort to make this game harder, such as not adding combat logs, not adding addons in any form.

Also, I would like them to add penalties for dying, XP loss and possible dropping of equipped items.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Propanelgen

[AlpsStranger]

If you want everything in a game to be so easy, why dont you just play Minesweeper?

 

I support every effort to make this game harder, such as not adding combat logs, not adding addons in any form.

Also, I would like them to add penalties for dying, XP loss and possible dropping of equipped items.

 

Ohai. It's not 1999 anymore, so quit pining for the good ol' poopsock.

[AlpsStranger]

I guess I'm just going to be forced to troll you in-game and in vent, then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ the rest of your post.

 

No.

 

The MMORPG genre is entirely based on Min/Maxing. Keep kidding yourself otherwise.

 

Those of us who have actually played RPGs that involve dice and bags of Doritos know the difference.

Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Gestas]

The MMORPG genre is entirely based on Min/Maxing.

 

No...

[Andyonme]

We need them.

 

We can max out our builds and see who the slackers are in raids etc

Edited January 11, 2012 by Andyonme

[nitan]

IF the group leader kicks you because you got green items even tho you can punch out a lot of DPS.. It is not the group you are looking for..

 

I have seen healers wearing quest items from Corellia competing with healers that got mostly PvP gear, still healing more efficiency than the PvP geared healer..

 

So no need to suck it up, you just found the wrong peoples to group with :-)

 

And before doing Operations do some Hard-Modes with the peoples you want to join your Operations, see if the perform well in the Hard-Mode, and evaluate them from that..

 

This game DON'T need a DPS Meter to tell me if my team mate it pushing 400 DPS and another pushes 600 DPS.. All i want to care about is getting the raid boss down..

Edited January 11, 2012 by nitan

[RealAeiouy]

Honestly, I don't care either way...

 

But I'd be interested in a MMORPG that didn't have or support damage meters, because I think such a game would attract a different kind of gamer. The players wouldn't be as uptight, elitist, and annoying, at least in this regard.

 

Plus the players would be better. Doing content without dps meters is more difficult.

 

I have played extensively with and without meters and there is no question without is better overall.

 

I suspect a lot of players demanding meters have little or no experience playing mmogs withou them.

[RealAeiouy]

We need them.

 

We can max out our builds and see who the slackers are in raids etc

 

The slackers are the ones who can't do raids without in game instant dps parsing.

[AlpsStranger]

No...

 

Yes...

Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[RealAeiouy]

Georg Zoeller said something interesting in a recent post.

 

 

 

The emphasis he put on your seems to say that BioWare will be adding a way for you personally to see your own performance, yet you will not be able to see others.

 

For those that want to test rotations, specs etc, you will likely have the function to do that at some point, but for those that want to see others performance, it doesn't look like it's coming soon.

 

Source

 

Edit: you can't see the emphasis in my quoted post as quoting puts everything in italics, but you can see it in it's original state in the post I linked.

 

I am all for that. Just no need for public parsing. As I said before players should be able to control who sees their combat activity.

 

Bioware providing us with personal data is all we need and covers all of the legitimate needs for addon parsers.

[AlpsStranger]

I am all for that. Just no need for public parsing. As I said before players should be able to control who sees their combat activity.

 

Bioware providing us with personal data is all we need and covers all of the legitimate needs for addon parsers.

 

Ah well, I guess I'm going to be ************ during raids with my DPSer then. Good job Bioware.

 

If they actually do this then they are incurably retarded.

Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Truga]

I guess I'm just going to be forced to troll you in-game and in vent, then.

 

Troll me? About what? Being better than the average player? You obviously have no idea what you've just said.

 

I'm not an elitist person, I used to lead PUG raids in another MMO daily, a MMO that doesn't have any group-wide logs or any meters, and I did fine. As long as people do what they're told, unless it's a hard difficulty setting you're going to complete, even if they're complete garbage. It might take 45 minutes instead of 25, but it'll also sometimes be fun times, rather than a snoozefest. That's just how PUGs are.

 

Sure, there's that special snowflakes every now and then that can't follow simple directions, but I find that to be a very rare occasion. You just relegate these people to "DPS THIS", and then they do that and have someone else play support. Even if they're not spec'd for it, again, as long as it's not a hard difficulty setting, they're going to do just fine.

 

As for playing higher difficulties, I either play with my RL friends, who mostly know what's going on and don't need me checking on them, or I play with a guild that has a reputation of finishing content on a regular basis.

 

Yes, add-ons would make my job easier. Yes, they might be a tool for some jerks. Yes, I also see that currently, the majority is against mods, and I respect their wish, they are paying for my new content every major patch. Not having add-ons currently doesn't break my game. I can even see how some people that didn't play wow because they didn't like their add-ons came here. I personally know one such person.

 

If BW considers adding add-ons at any time, I hope they first educate their userbase about what exactly these would do, and then decide on the feedback given. Any other way of doing it would be rude to the community.

 

IF the group leader kicks you because you got green items even tho you can punch out a lot of DPS.. It is not the group you are looking for.

 

This has always been my experience. If the raid leader is asking people to link their equipment in chat and/or inspecting people's gear closely, you know they are overcompensating for something. Usually their lack of leadership/competence. A bad raid leader is in 99% cases the reason for defeat on any non-hard difficulty setting.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Truga

[nosferathum]

This game is too young.

 

When most of the anti-dps have spent months trying to gear up, and have realized they were beeing hold back by some newer guys, opinions will change.

 

Usually there's only 2 sides on this:

- Those who don't want to be confronted by others when they slack, or don't care enough to carry their own weight.

- Those who care enough to study logs, learn rotations, etc.

 

So most of the anti-meters on this thread seem to be in the first category, and it's fine, 'cause, you are defending your right of not having to be confronted.

 

While defending that "freedom" of yours, you are also saying that people who care enough, have an obligation to do your part of the task, 'cause you just don't care.

By doing so, you nay-sayers just stepped into my "freedom" of choosing who to bring along, because I demand to be fed information about the random people who I'll get to spend time with, and who will make my time "fun" or a "waste".

'Cause all of us who want to be better at our classes/specs, have to put aside our fun, so YOU can have yours.

 

After seeing some beeing so political correct about disabled people and such, the issue about "my freedom ends where yours' begins" should be easy to tackle, but it isn't 'cause some maintain that, their freedom to have fun is worth more than mine or everyone else, if we want dps meters.

 

Keep in mind that, if the Devs already implemented enrage timers, for those who at least know what that is, it's quite obvious that they already had in mind that we would need such tool in future encounters, where that tactic is used.

 

No one should be forced to do someone else job on any fight.

If you want to be taken along in pugs, do your job and stop QQing cause you're too lazy to care. If you do PVE content with friends you shouln't be worrying too much, as long as all of your friend are honest about their expectations, including.

 

Anyway, it's just so fun to see some of the QQers DEMANDING that for once the "survival of the fittest" must not taken into account, because THEY THINK this is a casual game, so if they think it is, it must be done as they command, or else .... they quit, well ... bye ....

 

FYI, beeing demanding for more improvements for PVP or PVE is what pushes the Devs to be better, and if your game does not improve to allow player performance checking, it will never be taken seriously.

Edited January 11, 2012 by nosferathum

[AlpsStranger]

I am all for that. Just no need for public parsing. As I said before players should be able to control who sees their combat activity.

 

Bioware providing us with personal data is all we need and covers all of the legitimate needs for addon parsers.

 

You know what? You *********** win. I don't care anymore.

 

I've deleted my Level 50 and my alts. I've uninstalled and cancelled my sub.

 

That statement right there proves that Bioware doesn't want me as a customer.

[GalacticKegger]

We need them.

 

We can max out our builds and see who the slackers are in raids etc

Slacker: (sla' kur) "Someone who puts off doing things until the last minute, and when the last minutes come, decides it wasn't all that important anyways and forgets about it."

 

Ju keep a using that a word. I no a think it a means what a you think it a means . . .

 

Min/maxing tools can be a good thing as long as gameplay balance isn't sacrificed or compromised because of them. Epeening will happen regardless, so that should not be a consideration in determining the extent to which they are deployed. Would love to see a combat log at some point. I've never really needed meters for anything other than target practice to work on rotations, so I'm comfortable with or without them.

Edited January 11, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Ambrossius]

I completely support an ingame damage meter. Or at least a parse-able out of game combat log when they get the log flooding dealt with.

 

Some of the most fun I have playing an MMO comes from seeing someone who's better than me.. analysing their gear/rotation/spec against mine, and then bettering myself for it.

 

Right now I have no idea what's going on. We're killing bosses and not hitting enrage timers.. but what happens when we do hit an enrage timer at some point? We'll have NO idea why.

 

Is the overall raid DPS too low and we need to gear up? Or would 2 or 3 people using bad specs make the difference by respecing?

 

This game isn't like WoW where there has been patch after patch after patch to make Fire and Arcane the same (or very close to a margin of skill rather than talents) so it's still very possible that Deception falls MILES behind Madness for Assassins.

 

All of the people saying no to meters because you don't like playing the numbers game.. you're so selfish. I play MMO's to PLAY THE NUMBERS GAME! It's so much fun for me being able to spend a couple hours at work writing a combat parser and going over all my numbers and figuring out where to improve. If I can't improve.. then where's the fun in playing a game about character progression? lol Just getting purples means nothing if I don't know how to properly use them because I don't have any empirical data to go through.

 

I won't tell you you're bad in a pug, I don't care about pugs. Get carried -- fine by me. Play the game the way YOU want to play it.. I completely support your freedom. But don't take my favourite aspect of MMO gaming away.

 

Even the debate factor.. where half a dozen guildies can get together and discuss numbers and where to improve and where to scrape that extra 1 or 2 DPS out of.. I love it. The community of bettering yourself and bettering eachother as a guild is just so rewarding when you can actually figure out where you're going wrong.

[DarthGrimmlokk]

I completely support an ingame damage meter. Or at least a parse-able out of game combat log when they get the log flooding dealt with.

 

Some of the most fun I have playing an MMO comes from seeing someone who's better than me.. analysing their gear/rotation/spec against mine, and then bettering myself for it.

 

Right now I have no idea what's going on. We're killing bosses and not hitting enrage timers.. but what happens when we do hit an enrage timer at some point? We'll have NO idea why.

 

 

So right now there is NO problem. You are speculating that there "May" be a problem in the future and worrying about how to overcome said "potential" problem "if" it even comes to pass. Not something you should be all that concerned with right now.

 

 

Is the overall raid DPS too low and we need to gear up? Or would 2 or 3 people using bad specs make the difference by respecing?

 

"If" it comes to that point then how about all of you take a look at your specs and gear and make changes and you'll probably beat the encounter.

 

 

[guided_by_voices]

If you want everything in a game to be so easy, why dont you just play Minesweeper?

 

I support every effort to make this game harder, such as not adding combat logs, not adding addons in any form.

Also, I would like them to add penalties for dying, XP loss and possible dropping of equipped items.

 

you played EQ Live!

[Grim_X]

So my question remains: Are they talking just an in game one for your own data or an out of game combat log too? If yes to the out of game combat log does it include ALL combat data from all players or just your own. It would be silly to just have your own in a text file. If the out of game combat log contains all data through a fight then is it updated on the fly or is it one of those annoying files that only updates (or unlocks) when the game is closed (leading to massive files)?

 

Personally I don't mind the idea of an ingame one with only my data and an out of game log in a text file that includes everything that's updated on the fly. Reason being is that I can run an out of game parser while playing and get all the information I need then. If the log is restricted to just my data then I have a severe problem since that makes group death logs, interrupts, damage, damage taken, etc unobtainable. I certainly won't ask people for theirs knowing it could be tainted. I usually take a look at these things as the tank to figure out what happened and how it can be avoided/resolved (not to be a dick and place blame).

Edited January 11, 2012 by Grim_X

[Aryzyra]

Plus the players would be better. Doing content without dps meters is more difficult.

 

I have played extensively with and without meters and there is no question without is better overall.

 

I suspect a lot of players demanding meters have little or no experience playing mmogs withou them.

 

No tooltips or flytext would also make the game more difficult.

 

No graphics would as well.

 

Turning off the monitor even more so.

[GalacticKegger]

No tooltips or flytext would also make the game more difficult.

 

No graphics would as well.

 

Turning off the monitor even more so.

No meters = no parking tickets either. Yay!