Playing vs Pre-Mades is frustrating, disrespectful...

[Astarica]

I actually queue solo most of the time once I realized that when you've two people queued together there's almost no possibilty of you getting one of the spots from the guys who join a game and quit immediately (because you'd need two spots open). I can get 1500 valor in a win, or 1200 in a long loss, or 900 in a quick loss, or I can spend 10 minutes in the queue. In fact, the quick loss is generally the most favorable kind since I can do 2 of that in the time it takes 1 of the other. Note that the 2Xpre-made quick win is impossible because once you win, the next queue will take a while (at least on my server), so 2 consecutive quick-wins are impossible for a premade but solo queuers sure can do 2 quick-losses.

 

Besides, a pre-made quick win is usually only something like 1000 valor because you'd have crushed the enemy so thoroughly that the enemy would stop coming out before the opposing side has died a total of 25 times.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Astarica

[Wolftrot]

I am all up for separating the 50s bracket from the rest... but removing premades(restricting them)?

 

That's going a bit far imo. Not all premades are op premades, some just involve 2-3 people queing together.

[maradigamer]

If you re lvl 50 and can't even get a few players to play with you, you have to hope that there actually exists players on your team that can at least a little bit socialize and make a group:rolleyes:

 

It's not forceing - you can play alone can you? you can also win in a pug vs a premade, at least i can (sometimes....)

 

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have time to find a premade and queue with them, and believe me, I can get people to pvp with me. It's not hard. But I won't do it just so I can steamroll pugs. God, that's so incredibly boring and makes me feel like a real ******, too.

 

 

If Bioware implements premades, I'll find a team or make one and have some fun games. But I'm not going through all that effort and using voice chat just to steamroll people.

[Sumwun]

If you re lvl 50 and can't even get a few players to play with you, you have to hope that there actually exists players on your team that can at least a little bit socialize and make a group:rolleyes:

 

It's not forceing - you can play alone can you? you can also win in a pug vs a premade, at least i can (sometimes....)

 

whats the big deal of a premade facing a premade? or half and half? everything in this thread is black and white, premade or not. If you want to play in a premade, you get put against other premades. simple.

[Kengaro]

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have time to find a premade and queue with them, and believe me, I can get people to pvp with me. It's not hard. But I won't do it just so I can steamroll pugs. God, that's so incredibly boring and makes me feel like a real ******, too.

 

 

If Bioware implements premades, I'll find a team or make one and have some fun games. But I'm not going through all that effort and using voice chat just to steamroll people.

so where is the problem?

[Jswizzle]

At that point I just go for kills, at least when I'm on my assassin. I cannot possibly carry the team with him, maybe that will change with more gear, idk.

 

When I'm on my scoundrel healer, I feel as long as there's 1 or 2 competent DPS on my team we have a chance.

 

Regardless, I still do not get a real sense of competitive PvP in this game. There needs to be some type of premade vs. premade game type.

 

Sometimes you have to lose, you just get out played. It can be rough but in this game we still get decent EXP, and rewards for losing. I come from games where one loss would mean breaking stuff, or not being able to sleep for a full night.

 

It feels competitive to me. The losses just make me want to try harder.

[Nydar]

Here's the thing no one is thinking about. You're all whining about longer que times. sub-50s aren't going to que up knowing its going to be an instant face rolling. I played two matches where there was a pre-made, 1/2 way through the second one i quit and went and did my class quest.

 

A 50's bracket and rated pvp are necessary things. If your pre-made is suffering from long ques, then que solo problem solved. But we know the reason you don't want that is the possibility of forfeiting easy victories.

 

I expect when more people are 50 this will go away as an issue, but someone wanting to effectively compete in pvp with tehir sub 50 isn't an unreasonable request.

 

The tone of the OPs post is a bit whiney to me as I don't find anything that happens in a video game to be humiliating., but if you sort through it some of his points are reasonable once you get past the tone.

[wunahokalugi]

Definition - member of a pre-made group: A loser who doesn't have a real live or responsibilities that sits in team chat and awkwardly socializes with people they won't ever meet in real life or have any kind of meaningful relationship with....channeling all their pent up ****** frustration into a video game.

 

I chuckled. Bitter much?

 

Regardless of what Bioware does in this regard, voice chat premades are going to occur. If they separate the queues for grouped individuals and the queue times become unreasonable, guess what....

 

3...2....1...queueing

 

Hey look, this game has 7 guildies in it...

 

Instead of trying to take the multiplayer out of the MMO, why not work on those social skills, you're so sure we lack?

[Celebrus]

Being forced to play against pre-made groups in the warzones is degrading, disrespectful, humiliating and incredibly frustrating.

 

Being forced to play against pre-made groups in the warzones

 

Being forced to play against pre-made groups

 

Being forced to play

 

Being forced

 

 

Forced? Go outside and take a walk or something. You're not being forced to do anything.

[maradigamer]

so where is the problem?

 

1. Bioware hasn't implemented a premade vs premade system yet. If I join a premade now, I'll just end up rolling pugs all day. Boring.

 

2. Not everyone has the time to form a premade and be on at the same time the rest of their guild is and it's not fair to them to make them pvp fodder.

 

3. I like to solo pvp sometimes, it's a great stress relief (when I'm not losing %90 of my games to premades). What is wrong with wanting to be able to do both?

 

4. If premade queues are implemented but most premade players remain in the pug games, then I'll have really long queue times.

Edited January 10, 2012 by maradigamer

[Lazorous]

Ahh what it means to be young.

 

Nothing in that statement even made sense or made anything I say turn me into a Hypocrite.

But in light of you inability to read correctly, I will bite for simple amusement.

 

Is anyone forcing you to PVP in a group? with those 3 friends?

 

PUG pvp is just as much a part of every mmo as pre-made. If you want to pre-made. Go to world PVP. Something that can be avoided easily. Dailies require both.

 

/Rinse

/Repeat what you quoted from me

 

Now speaking of inability to read. Here's quoting you,

 

"That way you are not FORCING solo/pugs to go against pre-mades. "

 

Again, as my reply states, you are not FORCED into anything. If you encounter a warzone that has a premade, you are not FORCED to stay there. You can simply exit the warzone and q for another. Your comments assume that ALL warzones are Premade, which they are not. That relates directly to your previous comment.

 

Next quote,

 

"A pre-made in PVP should ONLY be looking to fight another pre-made"

 

Then define what is a pre-made, because apparently some people here find a group of 3-4 50s as premades. So based on that standard, you're suggesting that my group should ONLY fight another group of 3-4? That is called Arenas in WoW.

 

So again, no one is FORCED to into anything right now. Being forced means you don't have a choice. And as I mentioned, you have a choice to leave the warzone and find another one with better odds, as well as the choice to find a group.

 

Try again, kid.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Lazorous

[Celebrus]

1. Bioware hasn't implemented a premade vs premade system yet. If I join a premade now, I'll just end up rolling pugs all day. Boring.

 

2. Not everyone has the time to form a premade and be on at the same time the rest of their guild is and it's not fair to them to make them pvp fodder.

 

3. I like to solo pvp sometimes, it's a great stress relief (when I'm not losing %90 of my games to premades). What is wrong with wanting to be able to do both?

 

 

 

Whats wrong with being steamrolled in PvP? Thats part of the process, you should probably get used to it, because it's going to happen to your pre-mades too. Thats just how it goes, guy.

 

I love to solo pvp, however I don't expect pug pvp groups to perform at any level, because they wont, and I will be disappointed. Not being disappointed keeps it fun, so I don't get my hopes up for victories when I'm pugging my Qs.

 

Even after WoW's "brilliant" rated BG implementation there were still plenty of pre-mades steamrolling nubs in unrated BGs. So, the "pre-made vs pre-made" system simply doesn't prevent this from happening.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Celebrus

[Modecrypt]

1. Bioware hasn't implemented a premade vs premade system yet. If I join a premade now, I'll just end up rolling pugs all day. Boring.

 

I run into an opposing premade as often as I run into a full team of PUGs.

 

Try again?

[cloudxshadowbane]

Now speaking of inability to read. Here's quoting you,

 

"That way you are not FORCING solo/pugs to go against pre-mades. "

 

Again, as my reply states, you are not FORCED into anything. If you encounter a warzone that has a premade, you are not FORCED to stay there. You can simply exit the warzone and q for another. Your comments assume that ALL warzones are Premade, which they are not. That relates directly to your previous comment.

 

Next quote,

 

"A pre-made in PVP should ONLY be looking to fight another pre-made"

 

Then define what is a pre-made, because apparently some people here find a group of 3-4 50s as premades. So based on that standard, you're suggesting that my group should ONLY fight another group of 3-4? That is called Arenas in WoW.

 

So again, no one is FORCED to into anything right now. Being forced means you don't have a choice. And as I mentioned, you have a choice to leave the warzone and find another one with better odds.

 

Try again, kid.

 

 

You like to insult yourself.

 

Quitting WZs being the only solution mentioned is a FORCE. and doing so FORCED removal of any medals you actually worked for and FORCED to lose time spent in que. Oh, I'm sorry was I too fast again? did I lose you?

 

Obviously I do not see a problem with 2-3 pple queing together against PUG/Random. But anymore than that and Pre-mades will just exploit it.

 

The choice was made to que solo into WZ, que pops, WZ is entered. You cannot choose to not fight the pre-made that you find yourself against and still be able to play in the WZ you waited for, you cannot choose to ensure that queing solo is only queing against other non-premades, therefore you are BEING FORCED one way or another

[Modecrypt]

You like to insult yourself.

 

Quitting WZs being the only solution mentioned is a FORCE. and doing so FORCED removal of any medals you actually worked for and FORCED to lose time spent in que. Oh, I'm sorry was I too fast again? did I lose you?

 

Obviously I do not see a problem with 2-3 pple queing together against PUG/Random. But anymore than that and Pre-mades will just exploit it.

 

The choice was made to que solo into WZ, que pops, WZ is entered. You cannot choose to not fight the pre-made that you find yourself against and still be able to play in the WZ you waited for, you cannot choose to ensure that queing solo is only queing against other non-premades, therefore you are BEING FORCED one way or another

 

Luckily, for the majority of the player base, they are never going to separate premades from being able to queue against PUGs. It sounds like it is going to be a rough adjustment for you in SWTOR.

 

20 bucks says you cancel your sub within 30 days or you join a guild that PVPs.

[Celebrus]

The choice was made to que solo into WZ, que pops, WZ is entered. You cannot choose to not fight the pre-made that you find yourself against and still be able to play in the WZ you waited for, you cannot choose to ensure that queing solo is only queing against other non-premades, therefore you are BEING FORCED one way or another

 

If Q times took longer than about....45 seconds....you might have a decent argument here.

 

Fortunately, my Q times are basically instant most nights, so quit whining, leave, Q up, and be in another WZ in less than a full minute.

[maradigamer]

Whats wrong with being steamrolled in PvP? Thats part of the process, you should probably get used to it, because it's going to happen to your pre-mades too. Thats just how it goes, guy.

 

I love to solo pvp, however I don't expect pug pvp groups to perform at any level, because they wont, and I will be disappointed. Not being disappointed keeps it fun, so I don't get my hopes up for victories when I'm pugging my Qs.

 

Even after WoW's "brilliant" rated BG implementation there were still plenty of pre-mades steamrolling nubs in unrated BGs. So, the "pre-made vs pre-made" system simply doesn't prevent this from happening.

 

Well you beat me before my edit. GG. I edited to add that if premades are allowed to continue to roll pugs most won't fight other premades, therefore making my queue times very long.

 

I already mentioned the problem with separation that both WoW and Rift suffer from, namely premades sync-queuing into solo games. No company I know of has prevented this yet. I'm waiting for the happy day when one does. As I already stated (possibly in another thread) I don't think Bioware will be that company.

[Lazorous]

You like to insult yourself.

 

Quitting WZs being the only solution mentioned is a FORCE. and doing so FORCED removal of any medals you actually worked for and FORCED to lose time spent in que. Oh, I'm sorry was I too fast again? did I lose you?

 

Obviously I do not see a problem with 2-3 pple queing together against PUG/Random. But anymore than that and Pre-mades will just exploit it.

 

The choice was made to que solo into WZ, que pops, WZ is entered. You cannot choose to not fight the pre-made that you find yourself against and still be able to play in the WZ you waited for, you cannot choose to ensure that queing solo is only queing against other non-premades, therefore you are BEING FORCED one way or another

 

Holy crap, you have no idea what Choices are do you?

 

So when you go to a restaurant with a 50min wait, do you say that THEY Forced you to go somewhere else? or you are FORCED to wait? No you have a choice to go somewhere else, or you choose to wait. Oh I'm sorry, they forced you to lose gas and time to go to another place.

 

If you find an item in a retail store that's 2x the cost at another retail store, do you say they FORCED you to shop at another store? No, but they gave you a reason to shop elsewhere.

 

Seriously dude. Just because you have some delusions to reality, doesn't mean others have to fall to your failed logic. Move on little one.

 

I'm done with you here. I've got better things to do than to kill brain cells to get to your level, like enjoy lunch.

 

Notice how several others don't agree with you. I'm not the only one that recognizes your fallacy. Cya kiddo.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Lazorous

[maradigamer]

I run into an opposing premade as often as I run into a full team of PUGs.

 

Try again?

 

 

Actually, I'm thinking about joining a pvp guild soon to try this out. However, once they separate the brackets and allow players to choose their warzones past experience in other games tells me most premades will be able to avoid each other, so rolling pugs will become much more common.

[Nydar]

I think I saw something the other day from the pvp team that stated they're going to create a 50 only bracket and establish rated pvp.

 

 

the premade thing hasn't been that horrible to me, its only happened a couple times and the solution is simple, leave the que and go do something else. But if this really is about organized pvp and fighting other premades then you shouldn't be radically opposed to the above. But i suspect its also about easy victories and enlarging e-peens otherwise if the premade que is too slow you could just que solo, problem solved.

 

 

myself I miss the days of playing on mordred daoc and running around and getting into 1-3 man engagements, or eq 1 back in the day and solo pvping in RO. But I have always been more about growing my own personal e-peen and not that of a gang.

[cloudxshadowbane]

If Q times took longer than about....45 seconds....you might have a decent argument here.

 

Fortunately, my Q times are basically instant most nights, so quit whining, leave, Q up, and be in another WZ in less than a full minute.

 

Just because your que times are such, and you have no way to prove it, doesn't mean everyone's is.

 

The lack of age and wisdom becomes oh so evident with people like you;

it would be diff is SWTOR was Free-to-play.

But EVERYONE has to pay. YOU and others LIKE you , want to have all the choices to yourself, and not let anyone else have a choice just because they want to play a different way than YOU and others LIKE you.

 

/Fail again

[Slightlycampana]

I actually agree, it would be better to have pre-mades vs pre-mades in one bracket, and solo queuing in another bracket. If the server populations can support this.

[Modecrypt]

Actually, I'm thinking about joining a pvp guild soon to try this out. However, once they separate the brackets and allow players to choose their warzones past experience in other games tells me most premades will be able to avoid each other, so rolling pugs will become much more common.

 

In my experience any good premade will always prefer to fight another premade. The ones that avoid other premades are bad enough to be beaten by PUGs.

[maradigamer]

I think I saw something the other day from the pvp team that stated they're going to create a 50 only bracket and establish rated pvp.

 

 

the premade thing hasn't been that horrible to me, its only happened a couple times and the solution is simple, leave the que and go do something else. But if this really is about organized pvp and fighting other premades then you shouldn't be radically opposed to the above. But i suspect its also about easy victories and enlarging e-peens otherwise if the premade que is too slow you could just que solo, problem solved.

 

 

myself I miss the days of playing on mordred daoc and running around and getting into 1-3 man engagements, or eq 1 back in the day and solo pvping in RO. But I have always been more about growing my own personal e-peen and not that of a gang.

 

I'm all for rated premade pvp and I plan to take part in it. But how long will our queue times be when scrub premades continue to roll pugs in the other queue instead?

 

Bioware could and should encourage rated premade pvp by upping rewards (credits and gear) for participating. However, what will that do to the in game economy and gear discrepancies in both pvp and pve?

[Ravtec]

All the posts that say " Join a group yourself", "Join a guild that premades", etc etc

 

 

Congratulations, you are officially dumb.|

 

 

That is "forcing".

I bet your tone would change if you were "forced" to Raid PVE to get PVP gear.

I bet your tone would change if you were on the receiving end.

 

A pre-made in PVP should ONLY be looking to fight another pre-made. The whole point is to have organized, AND CHALLENGING pvp. All they have to do is give pre-mades a different que all-together that only pits them against OTHER pre-mades and/or give solo players the OPTION to que against formed groups IF they want to.

 

 

That way you are not FORCING solo/pugs to go against pre-mades. AND you are not removing the ability to que as a group (in reverse, FORCING groups to PUG)

 

 

Pretty much, if you think solo pvpers should be forced into a BG with pre-mades, you shouldn't be pvping in the first place, and are horribad at it already. If you want to roflstomp some solo players with organization, wait for World PVP

 

I cant agree more.

 

The Bg pvp concept is pretty much ruined, a big reason to introduce bg over open world pvp was to even the odds, make things more fair. Open world is where you drag your entire guild, this is pretty special and can be fun for guilds but it can also be one sided and boreing so a hit and miss.

 

You cant have half pug half premade vs premade, or worse 2x premade vs pugs. There is no chance in hell the pug will win with those stacked odds.

 

If they want to keep this system they need to build a matchmaker system that try to even it out, it does not need to be perfect anything is better then what we see now

 

Thats some work for sure but it will be more enjoyable for everyone

 

Or you need to seperate premade from pugs and introduce cross server pvp to lessen the ques

Edited January 10, 2012 by Ravtec