Shield (Shield Generators) are broken in PVP (possibly pve?)

[ericdjobs]

I just spent about 45 minutes testing.

 

With a 46% chance to shield.

 

 

The only attacks (from other players, only thing I have tested) that are currently mitigated by shields are weapon damage attacks. Kinetic, elemental, mental, etc currently do NOT proc shields.

 

This is fine and dandy for straight armor mitigation, but this is not acceptable for our shielding. Tanks get killed in PVP just about as fast as a DPS class; this is why. If the same thing holds true for boss mechanics in PvE.. oh boy.

 

Shield should have a chance to proc on every attack. Tanks currently have *NOTHING ELSE*. Every single one of the tanking stats is solely that; a tanking stat. It doesn't contribute to our damage whatsoever. Tanks DPS like wet noodles. Without heavy mitigation, what is our role in PVP?

 

 

Please, fix this ASAP!

 

If you don't believe me, test it for yourself.

[Torcer]

I just spent about 45 minutes testing.

 

With a 46% chance to shield.

 

 

The only attacks (from other players, only thing I have tested) that are currently mitigated by shields are weapon damage attacks. Kinetic, elemental, mental, etc currently do NOT proc shields.

 

This is fine and dandy for straight armor mitigation, but this is not acceptable for our shielding. Tanks get killed in PVP just about as fast as a DPS class; this is why. If the same thing holds true for boss mechanics in PvE.. oh boy.

 

Shield should have a chance to proc on every attack. Tanks currently have *NOTHING ELSE*. Every single one of the tanking stats is solely that; a tanking stat. It doesn't contribute to our damage whatsoever. Tanks DPS like wet noodles. Without heavy mitigation, what is our role in PVP?

 

 

Please, fix this ASAP!

 

If you don't believe me, test it for yourself.

 

Well, we do bring Guard and Taunt, but other than that, I agree.

[ericdjobs]

Well, we do bring Guard and Taunt, but other than that, I agree.

 

Yeah I agree, taunt is damn nice... Guard as well.

 

It just seem seriously broken that 75% of tanking stats are utterly useless for 75% of the attacks used in PVP.

[Sunsoar]

Been like this since early beta

[ericdjobs]

Been like this since early beta

 

 

 

That's depressing, lol.

 

Considering every single class gets at least some way to bypass armor mitigation (And that still only mitigates weapon damage or kinetic)...

 

we are basically left with our HP to defend ourselves, with absolutely no DPS stats.

 

But wait, HP is pretty even for most classes in the same PVP game, hah..

 

 

Crit, surge, power, they all give me a noticeable gain in PVP, whereas shield, absorb? Basically nothing.

[CHRISGG]

This is a huge issue that makes tanks way too easy to kill in pvp which is unfair due to the extra guard damage they take.

[chainsawsamurai]

This is a huge issue that makes tanks way too easy to kill in pvp which is unfair due to the extra guard damage they take.

 

I've been testing this recently as well. Have had similar findings.

 

Have you tested Defense yet? You're in for a hoot!

 

So if Defense and Shield don't work on a majority of damage in PvP (except snipers and Knights/Warriors, who are the only ones really affected by Defense and Shielding, which is pretty unfair in of itself), why the **** does all my PvP gear have so much gosh darned accuracy on it?

 

 

Also you'd mentioned that Armor only affects Weapon and Kinetic damage. This is untrue, it also affects Energy damage.

 

The only defensive statistics you can sort of rely on are flat Damage Reduction, Expertise, and in some cases Armor. Everything else is a waste of itemization beyond the bare basics needed to occasionally proc something from your Tank tree.

 

Edit: I get the asterisks for the first time I swore, but the second time I swore it changed what I wrote to "gosh darned." What's that all about lol?

Edited January 10, 2012 by chainsawsamurai

[Errthu]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

[cloudxshadowbane]

I've been testing this recently as well. Have had similar findings.

 

Have you tested Defense yet? You're in for a hoot!

 

So if Defense and Shield don't work on a majority of damage in PvP (except snipers and Knights/Warriors, who are the only ones really affected by Defense and Shielding, which is pretty unfair in of itself), why the **** does all my PvP gear have so much gosh darned accuracy on it?

 

 

Also you'd mentioned that Armor only affects Weapon and Kinetic damage. This is untrue, it also affects Energy damage.

 

The only defensive statistics you can sort of rely on are flat Damage Reduction, Expertise, and in some cases Armor. Everything else is a waste of itemization beyond the bare basics needed to occasionally proc something from your Tank tree.

 

Thats because they took the 100% unsuccessful formula for class balance from Asian mmos.

I say 100% unsuccessful because it is always reversed and fixed later on. Ranged classes are the devs favorite (ops/scounds excluded, prob 1 Naruto fan on the dev team).

 

Not sure why they did not realize that in a game with PVP it only works when the ranged class have to build up for their burst or are RNG based with more dps and the melee have

more on demand burst based on CDs. Tanks are hurt even more other than guard and taunt. I mean heck Kinetic (tanking) spec is the only balanced spec, actually the strongest spec for my shadow.

 

Not having auto attack just puts more fuel to this fire

[Dreadspectre]

I dunno...I'm not saying that the Shields shouldn't proc. But I've seen properly supported tanks last for god damn ever in Huttball. Then again I'm a Vengeance Jugg and alot of my moves ARE physical sooooo..

 

Walk a fine line here people, we don't need REAL Immortals runnin around..do we? I know that as a Jugg I can leap across half the map in a few second with proper targets. I'd make it to the Endzone a lot more often then if I was Immortal specced but since I'm Vengeance I get burned down right before I get there(and as usual, no one ahead to pass to )

 

Get full PvP gear before you ask for huge buffs, I think Shield should do SOMETHING but maybe not to full extent as it does for physical?

[SentinelBorg]

Yes, shields, like parry and deflect, only work against attacks of type Melee and Ranged (see your inGame spelllist), they don't work vs. Force and Tech. It is even stated that way in the tooltip. From a balance viewpoint, that is terrible in PvP.

[Bullsith]

I think thanks are meant to rely more on defensive cooldowns, but then why put stats on PVP gear that are useless to tanks?

[Scorpassailant]

I dunno...I'm not saying that the Shields shouldn't proc. But I've seen properly supported tanks last for gosh darn ever in Huttball. Then again I'm a Vengeance Jugg and alot of my moves ARE physical sooooo..

 

Walk a fine line here people, we don't need REAL Immortals runnin around..do we? I know that as a Jugg I can leap across half the map in a few second with proper targets. I'd make it to the Endzone a lot more often then if I was Immortal specced but since I'm Vengeance I get burned down right before I get there(and as usual, no one ahead to pass to )

 

Get full PvP gear before you ask for huge buffs, I think Shield should do SOMETHING but maybe not to full extent as it does for physical?

 

I am a REAL immortal, I just play dead and warp back to start so no one knows

[ericdjobs]

If it's a balance issue; fine, so be it. But why oh why waste precious itemization on SHIELD and ABSORB when it does pretty much nothing for us in PVP?

[Torcer]

Yeah I agree, taunt is damn nice... Guard as well.

 

It just seem seriously broken that 75% of tanking stats are utterly useless for 75% of the attacks used in PVP.

 

Oh, as a Shield Spec Vanguard Trooper I 100% agree.

[Dreadspectre]

I am a REAL immortal, I just play dead and warp back to start so no one knows

 

Hilariously enough, one time in a huttball match I was in the middle area carrying the ball, got obliterated and hit respawn and immediately respawned with full life and all right there on the spot and continued fighting. It was amusing, I'm sure people were like "***??"

[Idockdudes]

The only thing specing as a tank does is gimp your damage so you will think to guard, taunt or challenge first. Any survivability you have comes from CDs which you dont always have to spec as a tank to get.

 

Lots of the time it takes me spamming my defensive CDs while I get beat on for them to even go off. Which kind of balances out to them doing nothing either.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Idockdudes

[DarthOvertone]

The only attacks (from other players, only thing I have tested) that are currently mitigated by shields are weapon damage attacks. Kinetic, elemental, mental, etc currently do NOT proc shields.

 

Thanks for testing this out. Plan to do some testing tonight myself.

 

Questions though. Without a combat log, this is difficult to test. My Shadow has had numerous 1v1s with all classes, Pub and Imp, and it seems to me the Shield does soak up a lot of the incoming damage. What did you specifically do for your testing? I assume you lined up some Pub buddies and had them unload on you to observe the scroll. Were you able to quantify any of the data at all via Fraps or some other method?

 

I only ask because the Devs won't listen to anything in this regard unless you compile the data for them.

 

The only thing specing as a tank does is gimp your damage so you will think to guard, taunt or challenge first. Any survivability you have comes from CDs which you dont always have to spec as a tank to get.

 

This is true. My Shadow has been pretty much tanking everything using his CDs. He is Kinetic/Balance specced with an emphasis on DPS and gears for DPS. So far he has been able to Tank every on level FP and Heroic without difficulty. Last night he Tanked the Voss Shrine Heroic Boss (172K boss) successfully without a Healer. Tanking for Survivability is a no go for PvP. It also may be completely unnecessary for PvE as well, although my toon hasn't hit Eternity Vault yet.

[lokivoid]

I dunno...I'm not saying that the Shields shouldn't proc. But I've seen properly supported tanks last for gosh darn ever in Huttball. Then again I'm a Vengeance Jugg and alot of my moves ARE physical sooooo..

 

Walk a fine line here people, we don't need REAL Immortals runnin around..do we? I know that as a Jugg I can leap across half the map in a few second with proper targets. I'd make it to the Endzone a lot more often then if I was Immortal specced but since I'm Vengeance I get burned down right before I get there(and as usual, no one ahead to pass to )

 

Get full PvP gear before you ask for huge buffs, I think Shield should do SOMETHING but maybe not to full extent as it does for physical?

 

I dont see why it shouldnt work to full extent. Also note that shield mitigation primarly effects shadows/assassins more than anything. As juggs and powertechs have alot higher Armor based mitigation (that still functions in pvp) wile assassins/shadows are focused primarly on shield absorbtion.

[supafreak]

Defense should block force somewhat (woulndt make sense for sheild as it's more mental) shield should block tech somewhat because what is tech? grenades, knives, gadgets...shieldable things wouldnta ya think?

This would divide defenses and make both kinds of D relatively =

[DimeStax]

Oh, all you poor misguided souls.

[Tragamite]

Well, we do bring Guard and Taunt, but other than that, I agree.

 

Yes but both of these can actually hurt you more. When a player realizes they have been taunted and actually do turn on you they are taking full advantage of and wasting your taunt as they do full damage ONLY to you!

 

Guard also can be a surviability hinderance as the damage mitigation apparently goes through who you are guarding and not through your gear so when you are protecting someone in recruit gear expect to get hammered!

 

The thing about the shield is it is a chance to work and then only absorbs a portion of the damage. So as a Tank you have Defense, the chance to block, parry or daodge an attack, next is your armor to mitigate damage, then shield chance, chance of shield activating and absorbing damage, and then there is Absorbtion through the shield to alieviate damage and finally endurance for health so as to how many of these hits you can actually take.

 

In PvP it is more Defense, Armor and Endurance, shield is basically a non factor in PvP based on the damage types of other players. While I see my shield proc regularly out in the world I almost never see it proc in PvP. Most players will say that taking Shield and Absorb stats on your gear is wasted defense!

 

I think shield should proc on everything except Internal damage! to me that is just something that can't be blocked when you are damaged from the inside out! With it being a shield chance it really shouldn't be an issue to block all standard form of damage!

 

To me a Tank secondary stat should be shield and absorb where an off tank could use more defense. This way a true tank can reduce more damage taken as apposed to using Defense so as to not take it in the first place. Although not taking the damage is a nice thought Tanks are supposed to take damage and LOTS of it yet that is where tanks IMO are infact lacking. And it is all based on the type of damage dealt. If an Assassin is an anti Tank weapon for insance that make a 3rd of their abilities deal internal damage and the rest force/melee that can be shielded against.

 

I think that is an easy fix to the shields at least for PvP.