Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Romiz]

No addons. In the end, they make the game easier. Not good.

 

More default UI flexibility? Yes.

 

That is the very best option without adding addons. Addons can be more bad than good. And Recount is on the list of bad addons ever made.

[Taroen]

Or you can accept it's not in game and

DEAL WITH IT

 

Or you can accept that it WILL be... and DEAL WITH IT.

 

The moment they add a combat log to this game there will be parsing. And that's just the facts. They've already said they're adding one.

 

If you don't like the fact that people can see a metric of your performance, it's likely because you're not too proud of said performance.

 

I, for one, am glad. I'm not a big fan of wiping and paying for a ton of repairs because one or two people aren't carrying their part of the load.

[Tsillah]

They better start making cutscenes really *********** fast and working their voice actors into laryngitis if that's their brilliant plan.

 

There's no where to go *but* a raidgame. At least not here on planet reality.

 

I don't accept your reality. It's your reality and not mine. Raids will be part of this game, as they already are, but it doesn't have to be a raidgame. That's just your limited imagination speaking.

[Grandpappy]

Wow is that way --------------------------------------------->

[AlpsStranger]

Wow is that way --------------------------------------------->

 

Nope. Gonna stay here and get what I want.

[AlpsStranger]

I don't accept your reality. It's your reality and not mine. Raids will be part of this game, as they already are, but it doesn't have to be a raidgame. That's just your limited imagination speaking.

 

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Or you can accept that it WILL be... and DEAL WITH IT.

 

The moment they add a combat log to this game there will be parsing. And that's just the facts. They've already said they're adding one.

 

If you don't like the fact that people can see a metric of your performance, it's likely because you're not too proud of said performance.

 

I, for one, am glad. I'm not a big fan of wiping and paying for a ton of repairs because one or two people aren't carrying their part of the load.

 

You know RIFT had parsing. Then people were magically hacked that downloaded the tool. You may feel safe enough to download a 3rd party add on for the game. Then do not complain when you are robbed. Enough people. It's nearly a month after launch and it's not in game. Nor have they said it will be DEAL WITH IT

 

It's a crutch. A weakness. It's not a tool. That's like saying going bowling and those inflatable thing's that pop up on the side so ball won't fall over is a tool. It turn's the community into some of the meanest people on the planet.

 

Proof. Look in this thread, the back and forth fighting. Can you not already get a taste of what's to come. Look foreward to being denied in groups because you didn't add that cookie cutter build that EVERYONE has. Look foreward to learning a routation and tunnel vision to get TOP DPS.

 

Look foreward for the fun to be sucked out of the game. To where only people with the TOP DPS matters. Look foreward to not enjoying anything. That's what will happen. It will be abused and it doesn't have to be. So far nothing said on adding it. The moment they do ..I'm gone..that's my money. But either way you'll keep playing if they add it or not.

 

So why should they add it to keep you happy. When most of the fan base is fine with it. I have yet to see a flash point not completed because of low dps. I have yet to see people spam requirement's to join their group.

[RealAeiouy]

Or you can accept that it WILL be... and DEAL WITH IT.

 

The moment they add a combat log to this game there will be parsing. And that's just the facts. They've already said they're adding one.

 

If you don't like the fact that people can see a metric of your performance, it's likely because you're not too proud of said performance.

 

I, for one, am glad. I'm not a big fan of wiping and paying for a ton of repairs because one or two people aren't carrying their part of the load.

 

 

 

Players that don't need parsers to do content are obviously more capable than those who need it. Stop with the nonsense that people who need more help are better. This is nonsense parser dependent players have somehow managed to get out there.

 

People who don't need parsing are better players. There is no other way to look at it. I wish people would just be honest though and say they want recount because the game is too hard for THEM without it.

[RealAeiouy]

If you get better at mmorpgs you can play without parsing too. It is not that hard

[AlpsStranger]

If you get better at mmorpgs you can play without parsing too. It is not that hard

 

Cool story bro.

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

No. Add-ons ruined WoW. Don't allow them here.

[Taroen]

You know RIFT had parsing. Then people were magically hacked that downloaded the tool. You may feel safe enough to download a 3rd party add on for the game. Then do not complain when you are robbed. Enough people. It's nearly a month after launch and it's not in game. Nor have they said it will be DEAL WITH IT

 

It's a crutch. A weakness. It's not a tool. That's like saying going bowling and those inflatable thing's that pop up on the side so ball won't fall over is a tool. It turn's the community into some of the meanest people on the planet.

 

Proof. Look in this thread, the back and forth fighting. Can you not already get a taste of what's to come. Look foreward to being denied in groups because you didn't add that cookie cutter build that EVERYONE has. Look foreward to learning a routation and tunnel vision to get TOP DPS.

 

Look foreward for the fun to be sucked out of the game. To where only people with the TOP DPS matters. Look foreward to not enjoying anything. That's what will happen. It will be abused and it doesn't have to be. So far nothing said on adding it. The moment they do ..I'm gone..that's my money. But either way you'll keep playing if they add it or not.

 

So why should they add it to keep you happy. When most of the fan base is fine with it. I have yet to see a flash point not completed because of low dps. I have yet to see people spam requirement's to join their group.

 

Actually it's more like going bowling without being able to tell who is hitting the pins and who isn't. One guy would like to know how many pins he hit, and the other guy doesn't want to know, because he's pretty sure he can't hit them.

 

Plus, if you're not smart enough to keep yourself from getting hacked, then you deserve to lose your stuff.

 

It WILL be added. They've already said they're working on it. When the combat log hits, I guess you'll be quitting... And people who like it will use it as a tool to measure and improve their rotations... and life will go on.

 

I actually do relate to your concerns about people getting tunnel vision on dps. That's pretty valid. But the reality is that there will always be some jackhat that cares more about his own dps than winning the fight. We don't accept people like that in my guild, so maybe you should find something similar.

[Setanian]

The big, big problem is; MMOs have multiple classes with multiple abilities and multiple ways 'specs' of playing those abilities.

 

What these number crunchers and more importantly their watchers do is, force everyone to the exact same class spec.

 

Even kids can press 1,2,3,4,5 in rotational order.. It's takes skill to know when to change without using a tele-caster!

[Taroen]

Players that don't need parsers to do content are obviously more capable than those who need it. Stop with the nonsense that people who need more help are better. This is nonsense parser dependent players have somehow managed to get out there.

 

People who don't need parsing are better players. There is no other way to look at it. I wish people would just be honest though and say they want recount because the game is too hard for THEM without it.

 

Stop with the nonsense that people who can't view their performance are better. We all know that people who don't want metrics are the people that are scared to see the results.

[Setanian]

And people who like it will use it as a tool to measure and improve their rotations... and life will go on.

 

So we can look forward to everyone playing the exact same class spec with the exact same rotation..

 

 

How *********** boring is that !

[Taroen]

So we can look forward to everyone playing the exact same class spec with the exact same rotation..

 

 

How *********** boring is that !

 

I was unaware that people were grabbing your hand and forcing it down on the mouse to select that skill point...

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Cool story bro.

 

Simply put these people will coutinue to play this game even if this feature is not here. Why should my fun be stopped, because you can't life without your "recount"..a little story. I came from everquest, when you died, you ran back to your body if you wanted your gear. That's hard. We did raid's, dungeon's all WITHOUT recount.

 

It's a tool...not a tool. You might as well place cruches under your arm. Because you depend on it. Without it, some people can't raid and that's quite simply said. I have yet to encounter any problems with any groups. That's because..GASP..NONE EXIST.

 

The idea that we need this tool is just purely fantasy. We don't need it. Actually adding it at this stage could most likely stop some people from playing. A business works like this. They place a product out, and you consume it. If you consume it faster then they create it..well look at wow. People don't need burn through content in 5.3 hours.

 

It's not a race, anyone who asks for recount. Might as well ask for someone to hold their hand in game. It's not for elite people. It's for people to tell them what other player's can already figure out. It's something that promoted bad community. Look at the guy who quoted me as proof of this "I know better then you"

 

That is just a small ..small taste to come. Lastly, we don't NEED it. All they do is encourage other people to be mean. Divide the community by limiting the people join groups because of DPS and promote in fighting. Allowing this in from a business stand point is very risky.

 

Hopefully as the months go on. Those who want it will burn themselves out much like a child might cry themselves to sleep. This isn't warcraft. For some of us warcraft was not our first MMO. We know how it feels to be without it. Say no to recount and stand up for FUN.

[RealAeiouy]

Stop with the nonsense that people who can't view their performance are better. We all know that people who don't want metrics are the people that are scared to see the results.

 

 

 

Yeah people who do content without parsing are worse. It is amazing people have gotten others to believe that. People who do content without training wheels are better.

 

If you can't do content without parsing you are not good.

[Setanian]

I was unaware that people were grabbing your hand and forcing it down on the mouse to select that skill point...

 

But they are... It's already been stated in this thread a few times. Players should go their class forum, get the proper spec and rotation and they'll be all set.

 

If I how-ever go against that 'ubur spec' I'm labelled an idiot and newb.

 

So yeah, once we have all these care bear add-ons, everyone will have to spec the same and use the same rotation or they'll be somehow, gimp for the elitists..

[krinaman]

Stop with the nonsense that people who can't view their performance are better. We all know that people who don't want metrics are the people that are scared to see the results.

 

 

 

Strawman != fact

[Taroen]

But they are... It's already been stated in this thread a few times. Players should go their class forum, get the proper spec and rotation and they'll be all set.

 

If I how-ever go against that 'ubur spec' I'm labelled an idiot and newb.

 

So yeah, once we have all these care bear add-ons, everyone will have to spec the same and use the same rotation or they'll be somehow, gimp for the elitists..

 

Who do you play with...?!?! Really.

 

I know what you're saying, and I've seen people act like that. But I avoid them. Childish and immature people tend to get added to my ignore list. They never infringe upon my gaming experience for very long.

 

Are you so afraid of what someone else thinks..? Afraid to be called an idiot or a newb..? Those classless idiots who would call you that can't think for themselves and never really used metrics, anyway. They just rely on what someone else told them is the best. If you ever really got into min/maxing you would know that there is constant debate among those who are most deeply involved in it.

[Spakz]

I think a giant factor which most people are overlooking here is the fact that enrage timers are already in existence on alot of boss fights in this game. Ive dabbled in a few HM flash points and ventured into my first operation the other day. (yay for me i suppose). The group had already cleared it on normal mode and a dps had to leave so i jumped in at the deepend somewhat and started of the hardmode of the first boss. Id guess we wiped ~10 times on this boss before calling the raid, 1 wipe to a healer death and the other 9 to the enrage timer of the boss (and no they werent stupidly slow times as far as im aware the boss was under 10% each time.

 

As far as i see it this already makes some kind of personal dps tracker/combat log compulsory in the game. Having an enrage timer as anything other than a way to stop people abusing 5 healers and taking an hour to kill each boss immediatley suggests that people will need to work out some sort of optimum dps performance. Taking into account that this is probably the easiest hard mode (not even nightmare) and the aspect wiping us is lack of dps, im sure youd agree this is only going to escalate as the game progresses.

Without wanting to be overly frank id say that all the people arguing against the addition of some form of dps monitoring/ combat log are fighting a losing battle unless bioware suddenly uturns and removes aspects such as enrage timers.

 

Sure you can "argue" that having dps meters makes it easy to optimize your performance but youre the undermining the other brach of anti-addon folk who hate the maths game and want the play the game on feel. Honestly though as much as i like stretching the most out of my toon i think id draw the line at doing so with only fly text to go by, or maybe getitng a stopwatch finding a target dummy and smacking it for 100k hp repeatedly to see which time i did it quickest.

 

TL:DR meters/combat log are a forgone conclusion with the way in which the game has been made, the ship has already sailed. Im happy about this in some ways as annoying as some people can be with said functions the problem is them people, not the functions themselves.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Spakz

[DragonAgeOrgins]

I think a giant factor which most people are overlooking here is the fact that enrage timers are already in existence on alot of boss fights in this game. Ive dabbled in a few HM flash points and ventured into my first operation the other day. (yay for me i suppose). The group had already cleared it on normal mode and a dps had to leave so i jumped in at the deepend somewhat and started of the hardmode of the first boss. Id guess we wiped ~10 times on this boss before calling the raid, 1 wipe to a healer death and the other 9 to the enrage timer of the boss (and no they werent stupidly slow times as far as im aware the boss was under 10% each time.

 

As far as i see it this already makes some kind of personal dps tracker/combat log compulsory in the game. Having an enrage timer as anything other than a way to stop people abusing 5 healers and taking an hour to kill each boss immediatley suggests that people will need to work out some sort of optimum dps performance.

 

Taking into account that this is probably the easiest hard mode (not even nightmare) and the aspect wiping us is lack of dps, im sure youd agree this is only going to escalate as the game progresses.

 

Without wanting to be overly frank id say that all the people arguing against the addition of some form of dps monitoring/ combat log are fighting a losing battle unless bioware suddenly uturns and removes aspects such as enrage timers.

 

Sure you can "argue" that having dps meters makes it easy to optimize your performance but youre the undermining the other brach of anti-addon folk who hate the maths game and want the play the game on feel. Honestly though as much as i like stretching the most out of my toon i think id draw the line at doing so with only fly text to go by, or maybe getitng a stopwatch finding a target dummy and smacking it for 100k hp repeatedly to see which time i did it quickest.

 

TL:DR meters/combat log are a forgone conclusion with the way in which the game has been made, the ship has already sailed. Im happy about this in some ways as annoying as some people can be with said functions the problem is them people, not the functions themselves.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Fretold]

Because i plan on 'raiding' endgame, i feel that something similar to Recount is definitely necessary.

 

I raided in WoW for 5 years, over 3 expansions. I was in a top 50 guild in Cata (till i quit the game in august) as a holy pally. damage meters play such a large role in engame content, its hard to believe. there were situations where we were 10-20k dps from beating a boss, replace the lowest dps with a class that had higher dps and viola the boss is dead.

 

It will be the same in TOR, it's impossible to balance every class to make their damage completely even on every encounter. Bursty classes will be better for shorter fights, sustained damage will be better on longer fights, classes with AoE will be better in fights with many mobs, etc.

 

But besides the class dps factor, there is the PBTK (player behind the keyboard) factor... It goes without saying that there will be many players who just suck at this game. Maybe it's not their fault, learning curves can be pretty tough (i had a really tough one in TBC and early WotLK), but those players just become a burden.

 

When you constantly have to carry people and hold their hands, it weighs down your group and holds you back from greater success. Damage meters help to identify the worst players in a group over time: if a player is doing consistently bad on multiple fights multiple times then they need to be replaced.

 

Damage meters also give you the ability to compare yourself to other players of the same class. Say im playing a shadow, and there is another shadow in my raid group. On a boss he doubles my damage and im sitting there like "wut? i thought i was doing good". Now i can ask the other shadow what he was doing that made his damage so high on that fight.

 

TL;DR:

 

1) Damage meters help identify bad players over multiple fights so they can be replaced.

 

2) They help identify which classes are strongest at that point in time, and which classes are best at which boss encounters.

 

3) Allow players to compare themselves to players of the same class, and ask for guidance/instruction on how to do better.

[Battousaien]

 

I love gaming communities, everyone is so understanding to each other and we're all having all kind of civil discussions and giving away friendly tips.

 

A big vouch for add-ons from me btw.