Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[atnasomus]

It's sooooooo much easier to make Addons the devil than to do this:)

 

Agreed.

 

I see a lot of community based reasons for people not wanting to use an addon. I do not see many gameplay reasons. Doesn't recount improve your ability to play the game? Isn't that what matters?

 

 

Gameplay >>>> anything else.

Edited January 8, 2012 by atnasomus

[Nikusu]

Confirmed an out of game combat log? Good enough for me. One thing that would be nice is to track CC breakers though.

[krinaman]

Agreed.

 

I see a lot of community based reasons for people not wanting to use an addon. I do not see many gameplay reasons. Doesn't recount improve your ability to play the game? Isn't that what matters?

 

 

Gameplay >>>> anything else.

 

Actually many posts point out how recount has made players worse. The most common example is when players ignore everything else but DPS just to top the meter.

[PjPablo]

Actually many posts point out how recount has made players worse. The most common example is when players ignore everything else but DPS just to top the meter.

 

Which no Group Leader would accept. That just isn't a real example against. Stand in the fire = get booted.

[knightblaster]

I disagree. They will lose the "MMO of the Month" crowd that thinks that MMORPGs are Hack and Slash games or Dugeon crawlers. They are not. They are not built around grabbing a random group of people and going. They have more structure than that. Those People who want that kind of game should play the F2P Star Wars game and not a Triple A MMORPG imo.

 

And here is Exhibit B. You would hope that these addons would purge the game of "trash" players who "don't belong in *my* AAA MMO".

 

All these tools are designed to do is to allow some players to lord themselves over others much more easily.

[RealAeiouy]

You don't need addons to play your character to your potential. Plus in a group or raid setting you should be focused on the group or raids maximum potential not your own. Learn to interact with other players. We promise those of you who are scared you do not need the hand holding/training wheels/easy mode such add ons provide. You will find satisfaction working with other players to always try and improve and always do your best to takedown content.

 

Besides the other issues recount gives permission for most players to take it easy as the lowest people take the heat. Everyone should be working to improve not just working to avoid the bottom of the dps charts.

 

Try the content without training wheels and hand holding, many of you will find you can succeed by treating others as humans and not npcs.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

1. Community-

 

It makes the Community act nasty to each other. Show me someone saying their will be no abuse of the tool to degrade other people and I will show you a liar! People act super nasty to each other. They will also limit the people from joining groups and being interactive. All because of this required drone DPS.

 

Has anyone ever actually done a raid they couldn't complete because they didn't have recount? is anyone unable to do something because they don't have this? No..they why take a hammer to something that doesn't need to be FIXED.

 

Dividing the whole community is the worst thing you can do this early in the game. You are pretty much stopping people from interaction. Rift allowed Pasers. They sunk like a ship. Sure people SAY they wanted it. Even though they could do it without it.

 

Also promotes people to consume the product faster then they can build it. We should ENJOY and savor this game. It's designed on game play story mode not soley on combat. It's an absurb idea that "good players need it" it's for those who can't tell the difference from spamming 1, from the group blast.

[MichaelLatta]

I would love the type of numbers offered in the OP. I would prefer it be visible to me and those I add to my friend list, and any others I share with explicitly in the current group. Having the numbers would help me improve, and in a group of friends can lead to friendly banter. But, it can also lead to compulsive optimization which takes some of the fun out of it. I should have the option of disabling the sharing if I choose.

 

Not a priority in the next 6-12 months though.

Edited January 8, 2012 by MichaelLatta

[PjPablo]

1. Community-

 

It makes the Community act nasty to each other. Show me someone saying their will be no abuse of the tool to degrade other people and I will show you a liar! People act super nasty to each other. They will also limit the people from joining groups and being interactive. All because of this required drone DPS.

 

Has anyone ever actually done a raid they couldn't complete because they didn't have recount? is anyone unable to do something because they don't have this? No..they why take a hammer to something that doesn't need to be FIXED.

 

Dividing the whole community is the worst thing you can do this early in the game. You are pretty much stopping people from interaction. Rift allowed Pasers. They sunk like a ship. Sure people SAY they wanted it. Even though they could do it without it.

 

Also promotes people to consume the product faster then they can build it. We should ENJOY and savor this game. It's designed on game play story mode not soley on combat. It's an absurb idea that "good players need it" it's for those who can't tell the difference from spamming 1, from the group blast.

 

The community is ridiculously nasty now! Most suggestion threads eventually (quickly) end up in a "Go back where you came from" type response.

[Tsillah]

SWTOR is a game without mods. A few people want to change it. They make a lot of noise, but they are a minority. Understand this.

 

But who do they want these changes for? Exactly, again a minority of people who think playing games is about efficiency. The kind of people who will do the same instance over and over again and flip out when someone makes a mistake. Control freaks in other words.

 

Is that such a bad thing you could ask....

 

Well, it depends on what you want really. Cater to the hardcore players and it will have a negative effect on casual players. Bioware may simply not want to go that way.

 

I think Bioware made a game that doesn't caters too much to hardcore players because they probably know by now that this group of players is a minority and a very fickle group as well. Not all of them, but the qq from that corner is automatically a matter of "more much trouble than they're worth".

 

Sure there are so hardmodes and such, but as time progresses and more people have level 50s the game content will adjust according to the majority of players.

 

Now please understand, this is all my point of view. But I think that if a game is made to cater to a broad audience and wants to include casual players on a wide scale (which is needed for a large player base) then automatically things like recount are undesireable.

 

So the real question is this: Does Bioware want to risk alienating a large part of their player base to cater to a very small part of the player base?

 

And don't start shouting that there are tons of people who want this. The hardcore community, like it or not, is the minority. I am against recount simply because it puts power in the hands of the wrong type of people. And I think those people shouldn't expect a game with a franchise like SW and a teen rating, to become an efficiency test.

 

Normally, I am for options. So one could argue making the use of something like recount optional. But it doesn't work that way. This is something that will affect the game in general in a negative way and I have a feeling Bioware doesn't want to go that way because of that. So let's say that I am for options as long as they don't have detrimental effect on the game.

 

TL;DR : I am against recount because SW is a franchise that shouldn't cater to elitist gamers, who are a minority (even though they pretend they're not by shouting very loud). Things like recount give power to people who shouldn't have it and that would have a negative effect on the game.

[RealAeiouy]

still don't see any good reasons why people think they need a recount type tool.

 

 

It is a shortcut to learning the game and keeps you from having to form social interactions with other. Mmogs are not magnets for social butterflies. Being able to remove the need to work with others in a substantial way removes the pain some get from socializing.

 

All the content is certainly able to be beaten by those who work with others but some people want a shortcut.

[krinaman]

Which no Group Leader would accept. That just isn't a real example against. Stand in the fire = get booted.

 

Sure if you are in a top raid guild.

 

For the other 99.9% of the population it doesn't work that way.

[PjPablo]

SWTOR is a game without mods. A few people want to change it. They make a lot of noise, but they are a minority. Understand this.

 

But who do they want these changes for? Exactly, again a minority of people who think playing games is about efficiency. The kind of people who will do the same instance over and over again and flip out when someone makes a mistake. Control freaks in other words.

 

Is that such a bad thing you could ask....

 

Well, it depends on what you want really. Cater to the hardcore players and it will have a negative effect on casual players. Bioware may simply not want to go that way.

 

I think Bioware made a game that doesn't caters too much to hardcore players because they probably know by now that this group of players is a minority and a very fickle group as well. Not all of them, but the qq from that corner is automatically a matter of "more much trouble than they're worth".

 

Sure there are so hardmodes and such, but as time progresses and more people have level 50s the game content will adjust according to the majority of players.

 

Now please understand, this is all my point of view. But I think that if a game is made to cater to a broad audience and wants to include casual players on a wide scale (which is needed for a large player base) then automatically things like recount are undesireable.

 

So the real question is this: Does Bioware want to risk alienating a large part of their player base to cater to a very small part of the player base?

 

And don't start shouting that there are tons of people who want this. The hardcore community, like it or not, is the minority. I am against recount simply because it puts power in the hands of the wrong type of people. And I think those people shouldn't expect a game with a franchise like SW and a teen rating, to become an efficiency test.

 

Normally, I am for options. So one could argue making the use of something like recount optional. But it doesn't work that way. This is something that will affect the game in general in a negative way and I have a feeling Bioware doesn't want to go that way because of that. So let's say that I am for options as long as they don't have detrimental effect on the game.

 

TL;DR : I am against recount because SW is a franchise that shouldn't cater to elitist gamers, who are a minority (even though they pretend they're not by shouting very loud). Things like recount give power to people who shouldn't have it and that would have a negative effect on the game.

 

The last version of Recount was downloaded over 700,000 times for WOW. How is that a minority? I am not saying there are that many here in SWTOR but that number does show that quite a lot of people like the addon.

 

FYI Recount has been downloaded 18,484,491 times. Hardly a niche MMO product.

[RealAeiouy]

What brand are your rose colored glasses? The boss fights in this game are laughably easier than WoW and WoW is already a joke.

 

Not beating on a giant's ankle? Ok, so instead of that we are just shooting the droid that sits still for us, or kiting another boss, or killing the healer of the boss first. I've had trash packs in WoW that were harder than actual bosses in this game. Do they have more health? Sure.

 

Bottom line is that addons can only really improve the experience. I'd rather be able to tell who the jerk is idling in the FlashPoint or not playing his class correctly. Calling people elitists for a bare-minimum afk-detector and "we couldn't kill the boss in time? Oh, let me check the meters. Oh, you weren't doing the right amount of Healing Per second or DPS? Let me try and help you fix that." How is that being elitist? I have trouble understanding why everyone thinks that a DPS meter is an elitist tool when I really have only used it to help improve people or find out who isn't doing their part.

 

If we don't have people who know what they're doing, and the community is fine with this, that's dangerous towards future content, where everything is a slap fest and any old player can do anything. Sure, you're paying 15 bucks a month to play, but there has to be some tiered content and gates for inexperienced players. I wouldn't want to live in a world where every boss is a 1 or 2 shot ordeal, because that's boring.

 

I just don't understand why people like you are so afraid of adding something that can only really improve the majority and due to a few outliers who use it as a tool to kick you (newsflash: if you do something wrong in real life or don't do your job, you get fired or replaced).

 

I just don't think it's right to be fencing off potentially fun and difficult encounters because people can't do their jobs and no one can detect if someone is doing what they're supposed to. It's really not fair to the supposed "1 million subscribers."

 

If you can't tell if someone is afk you need to learn to play games without hand holding add ons. That seems to be the real problem. A whole generation of wow first mmog players who never learned to play games and work with others and only wait for addons to play for them.

 

It has made players soft. Here is a hint to some people, someone who does content without hand holding add ons is better at the game than someone who needs it.

[Tsillah]

The last version of Recount was downloaded over 700,000 times for WOW. How is that a minority? I am not saying there are that many here in SWTOR but that number does show that quite a lot of people like the addon.

 

FYI Recount has been downloaded 18,484,491 times. Hardly a niche MMO product.

 

Let's see....700,000 times. About 10 MILLION players. That's not even 10 percent, provided that these 700,000 times actually represent individual people.

 

And part of what I am trying to say is that SWTOR isn't WoW. It's been set up differently. What do all of these recount users care about all the story work in this game? Chances are they don't like it. And yet, that's what this game is very big on. I just think that SWTOR is not the game for this.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

SWTOR is a game without mods. A few people want to change it. They make a lot of noise, but they are a minority. Understand this.

 

But who do they want these changes for? Exactly, again a minority of people who think playing games is about efficiency. The kind of people who will do the same instance over and over again and flip out when someone makes a mistake. Control freaks in other words.

 

Is that such a bad thing you could ask....

 

Well, it depends on what you want really. Cater to the hardcore players and it will have a negative effect on casual players. Bioware may simply not want to go that way.

 

I think Bioware made a game that doesn't caters too much to hardcore players because they probably know by now that this group of players is a minority and a very fickle group as well. Not all of them, but the qq from that corner is automatically a matter of "more much trouble than they're worth".

 

Sure there are so hardmodes and such, but as time progresses and more people have level 50s the game content will adjust according to the majority of players.

 

Now please understand, this is all my point of view. But I think that if a game is made to cater to a broad audience and wants to include casual players on a wide scale (which is needed for a large player base) then automatically things like recount are undesireable.

 

So the real question is this: Does Bioware want to risk alienating a large part of their player base to cater to a very small part of the player base?

 

And don't start shouting that there are tons of people who want this. The hardcore community, like it or not, is the minority. I am against recount simply because it puts power in the hands of the wrong type of people. And I think those people shouldn't expect a game with a franchise like SW and a teen rating, to become an efficiency test.

 

Normally, I am for options. So one could argue making the use of something like recount optional. But it doesn't work that way. This is something that will affect the game in general in a negative way and I have a feeling Bioware doesn't want to go that way because of that. So let's say that I am for options as long as they don't have detrimental effect on the game.

 

TL;DR : I am against recount because SW is a franchise that shouldn't cater to elitist gamers, who are a minority (even though they pretend they're not by shouting very loud). Things like recount give power to people who shouldn't have it and that would have a negative effect on the game.

 

Exactly. This game simply cannot afford to risk putting in this feature to break the community. It's possible that the community itself will turn more nasty and mean, which causes discomfort for people to quit. The truth they can't. In the long term they need to make their money back and I simply won't PLAY with a feature that ALLOWS recount. That's 15 buck's right there.

 

Can a game afford to carter to small group of people that want's it. Does it really want to roll the dice. I'd say no and pick the safe bet.

[PjPablo]

Let's see....700,000 times. About 10 MILLION players. That's not even 10 percent, provided that these 700,000 times actually represent individual people.

 

And part of what I am trying to say is that SWTOR isn't WoW. It's been set up differently. What do all of these recount users care about all the story work in this game? Chances are they don't like it. And yet, that's what this game is very big on. I just think that SWTOR is not the game for this.

 

More like 700,000 on the EU/US pop which depending on who you listen to is anywhere from 2.5-4.5 million.

 

Edit: Using addons has NOTHING TO DO with liking the story or not. I like it and am an addon user in games I play. Addons = data. Thats it.

Edited January 8, 2012 by PjPablo

[bboudreaux]

against it

 

it's easy mode

 

it alienates people

[Alexthree]

"It's a tool used to improve my DPS, that all" ....no. It's something that will be used to verbally assault other player's. OPEN YOUR EYES.

 

That's insane. In all my years of playing WoW I never once encountered anything similar to what you're saying.

 

 

But that just proves that the only reason anyone has a problem with it is the social aspect.

 

 

To which I reply: deal with it. Put on your big girl panties and learn to deal with the slight possibility that someone may in the future criticise you.

[Setanian]

I have a few reason why these meters are not needed, are not relevant and are generally bad for the game and bad for players.

 

I started my MMO career on Everquest 1. No quests, no add-ons. You found a group in a relevant zone to your level and grinded your way forward. When you hit max level you went raiding to get better equipment, to allow you to compete in even higher raids.

 

Starting out then, the genre was a game. Everyone helped each other, everyone buffed each others. Heck, even now, so many years later, I can login to Everquest 1 and know I'll be raid buffed with 20 minutes without even asking.

 

It's a different 'type' of player. Players on Everquest are not constantly measuring each other, for gear or numbers.

 

I ended up raiding in the #3 raid guild world wide as a tank. We still didn't and still don't have threat meters or damage meters or even raid frames. You knew who who was on the tank line-up and you either healed being careful not to get heal-aggro, or you dps'd being careful not to out aggro the tank(s).

 

Along came Warcraft and changed the whole MMO genre from being a generally polite semi-casual gaming experience into a Job.

 

A job having the best gear so that when you wanted to get a PuG you knew you wouldn't be ditched because you lacked in dos or some other guys number regime.

 

WoW fostered the 'immediate' mentality. Back in my EQ1 days, you did something like deadlines and stayed at it, until it was done. There was no '*** you suxors!' bye bye dropped from group type thing.

 

In WoW, everything is based on 'now', 1 attempt or you suxors. Everything is gear based, yours versus mine, and how much time you've played versus me.

 

In all my raiding on WoW, I have yet to meet a raid that even comes close to being as difficult as any I did on EQ1 and I did them all right up to 3 years ago.

 

What's changed, is the player age level, which opened the game to much younger players and the addition of add-ons. The lower age limit fostered the 'care bear' type genre we have now. Younger players don't have or want the patience to do something that might take them all day or all night. After all, their parents are screaming at them to do their homework, so young Johnny does not want to look like a kid and have to raid say, 'LolZ, my mom wants me to do my homework so I have to go'...

 

This wanting/needing, fostered the kill it as quick as possible and don't let 'me' die in the process attitude. Because things had to get done so quickly, players ensured they only played with same 'geared' group members. If PuG member #2 is not up to my gear level there is no way they can add a meaningful addition to this group!.. Drop them now, get someone else.

 

In 'generalistic' terms, the younger the player, the more need to compete against the fellow player. If HackorX has gearscore 4000 then he too must have it or above. The more mature players really don't give a flying toss, once the people they play with are of the same maturity level.

 

I'm going to put my neck on the line and say there is probably not 1 Everquest player here, who feels we need add-ons. Sure some of them make things easy, but when it comes to someone telling me they are doing more DPS than me, I switch right off. When it comes to someone telling me I'm not healing them enough, I switch right off.

 

WoW ruined this genre in both care bear attitude and the immediacy of having to get it right first time. The whole elitist attitude is borne from this, "I'm better geared than you'.

 

 

This whole 'need' for threat/DPS meters here is all about people feeling inadequate that they may not be as good without those helpful aids they were when they can see "Use ability Y NOW'..

 

 

Absolute NO to any form of add-ons. It's a game.

[bboudreaux]

The last version of Recount was downloaded over 700,000 times for WOW. How is that a minority? I am not saying there are that many here in SWTOR but that number does show that quite a lot of people like the addon.

 

FYI Recount has been downloaded 18,484,491 times. Hardly a niche MMO product.

 

that doesn't mean anything, personally I have downloaded the same thing quite a few times

 

you would be surprised what people to do skew statistical data in their favor

[DragonAgeOrgins]

That's insane. In all my years of playing WoW I never once encountered anything similar to what you're saying.

 

 

But that just proves that the only reason anyone has a problem with it is the social aspect.

 

 

To which I reply: deal with it. Put on your big girl panties and learn to deal with the slight possibility that someone may in the future criticise you.

 

Or you can accept it's not in game and

DEAL WITH IT

[Tsillah]

More like 700,000 on the EU/US pop which depending on who you listen to is anywhere from 2.5-4.5 million.

 

Edit: Using addons has NOTHING TO DO with liking the story or not. I like it and am an addon user in games I play. Addons = data. Thats it.

 

Listen, liking the story or not by itself doesn't have anything to do with addons. What I am saying is that I believe the majority of these efficiency freaks are wishing this game is something it's not. It's not WoW in space. It's a different game with different aspects. Story being one of them. The focus is different here.

 

So, if you want Bioware to focus the game in another direction, I simply don't think it will happen, because for all of the recognisable MMO elements in it, it simply is a different type of game.

 

I think the people who are left in WoW are not necessarily who Bioware see as their customers here. In time, end game will get more attention, I'm pretty sure, but will SWTOR then become a raid game like WoW? I don't think so and in fact I hope not.

[PjPablo]

that doesn't mean anything, personally I have downloaded the same thing quite a few times

 

you would be surprised what people to do skew statistical data in their favor

 

So now people are intentionally skewing the download figures?

 

Jeez.

[AlpsStranger]

Listen, liking the story or not by itself doesn't have anything to do with addons. What I am saying is that I believe the majority of these efficiency freaks are wishing this game is something it's not. It's not WoW in space. It's a different game with different aspects. Story being one of them. The focus is different here.

 

So, if you want Bioware to focus the game in another direction, I simply don't think it will happen, because for all of the recognisable MMO elements in it, it simply is a different type of game.

 

I think the people who are left in WoW are not necessarily who Bioware see as their customers here. In time, end game will get more attention, I'm pretty sure, but will SWTOR then become a raid game like WoW? I don't think so and in fact I hope not.

 

They better start making cutscenes really *********** fast and working their voice actors into laryngitis if that's their brilliant plan.

 

There's no where to go *but* a raidgame. At least not here on planet reality.

Edited January 8, 2012 by AlpsStranger