Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Hy_C]

I can only hope one comes soon.

[Kunitsukami]

There still haven't been any good reasons as to why Recount should be added to the game.

[Iskevosi]

I really, really, really don't want to see any form of Damage Meters in game.

 

So far every is playing and getting to 50 without them. They are not needed.

 

Once you add these damage meters people will be showing/stating that a Build is the only way to go and if you don't use it then you can't join my club attitude comes in. Seen it so many times in other MMO's.

 

Add this mentality through damage meters and you will take away the choice that the Tree system of allocation points gives!!

 

I want freedom not to be dictated to!!

[Zingas]

I really, really, really don't want to see any form of Damage Meters in game.

 

So far every is playing and getting to 50 without them. They are not needed.

 

Once you add these damage meters people will be showing/stating that a Build is the only way to go and if you don't use it then you can't join my club attitude comes in. Seen it so many times in other MMO's.

 

Add this mentality through damage meters and you will take away the choice that the Tree system of allocation points gives!!

 

I want freedom not to be dictated to!!

 

 

Basically all you're saying is that you're content with being bad and not playing your class correctly. MMOs are not for you.

[Iskevosi]

Basically all you're saying is that you're content with being bad and not playing your class correctly. MMOs are not for you.

 

And that's what you took from that?? Man you're under developed!

[YzenDanek]

I really, really, really don't want to see any form of Damage Meters in game.

 

So far every is playing and getting to 50 without them. They are not needed.

 

Once you add these damage meters people will be showing/stating that a Build is the only way to go and if you don't use it then you can't join my club attitude comes in. Seen it so many times in other MMO's.

 

Add this mentality through damage meters and you will take away the choice that the Tree system of allocation points gives!!

 

I want freedom not to be dictated to!!

 

The lack of proper tools to quantify you playing poorly does not rectify you playing poorly; it merely makes it difficult to detect.

 

If you care about flavor or style more than effectiveness, far be it from me to criticize you for your preferences, but what I don't understand is why players of that mindset want to secretly mingle with players who indeed are trying to play the game optimally. The optimization-minded players aren't trying to disguise themselves and mingle amongst the roleplayers.

 

If your playstyle can't withstand inspection, there's a reason for that. A game well played can be quantified. Nobody cares what a baseball player's mustache looks like when he's batting .197 on the season.

 

And if you don't want to have to play with the kind of players that care about inspecting your playstyle, the tools become win/win - you know that you don't want to play with me when I comment on your performance, and I know I don't want to play with you when your performance is poor.

Edited January 9, 2012 by YzenDanek

[Mephismo]

Don't need an Epeen meter

 

Hey WoW has recount you could always go play that

[Iskevosi]

The lack of proper tools to quantify you playing poorly does not rectify you playing poorly; it merely makes it difficult to detect.

 

If you care about flavor or style more than effectiveness, far be it from me to criticize you for your preferences, but what I don't understand is why players of that mindset want to secretly mingle with players who indeed are trying to play the game optimally. The optimization-minded players aren't trying to disguise themselves and mingle amongst the roleplayers.

 

If your playstyle can't withstand inspection, there's a reason for that. A game well played can be quantified. Nobody cares what a baseball player's mustache looks like when he's batting .197 on the season.

 

And if you don't want to have to play with the kind of players that care about inspecting your playstyle, the tools become win/win - you know that you don't want to play with me when I comment on your performance, and I know I don't want to play with you when your performance is poor.

 

And this is why we don't need them... These sort of bullies that need to call people out, that need to point fingers and make sure everyone plays the way they believe it should be.

 

Secondly, you don't know my style or my skill level, as I don't know yours. For all we know I will beat you hands down every time!

 

The only reason you need a meter is for you epeen!

[Sweetiegirl]

I'd really love recount, both to see how I'm doing and constantly try to improve myself and because I'm always curious to learn how others are doing.

 

I'm not the type to kick people because they're not as high as me or w/e silly reason, that's childish imo. However, of course, there is always a limit to how bad people can perform. But this has more to do with AFKing etc then actual dps/hps. As long as we stay alive, I don't see a problem.

[Maltuvion]

I support this. Measuring performance and acquiring data will only increase the average skilllevel of players and cause less discrepancy between the experienced MMO players and the console-crew, both of which are frustrated currently; one by the lack of content due to it being easy, and one by the difficulty of said content. And by each other when they group up.

 

Data is good. Knowledge is good. Optimization is good. Good performance makes for an enjoyable game. Recount heightens the overall skill level as it illuminates flaws and allows for optimization.

 

Repeat the mantra.

[Maltuvion]

The lack of proper tools to quantify you playing poorly does not rectify you playing poorly; it merely makes it difficult to detect.

 

If you care about flavor or style more than effectiveness, far be it from me to criticize you for your preferences, but what I don't understand is why players of that mindset want to secretly mingle with players who indeed are trying to play the game optimally. The optimization-minded players aren't trying to disguise themselves and mingle amongst the roleplayers.

 

If your playstyle can't withstand inspection, there's a reason for that. A game well played can be quantified. Nobody cares what a baseball player's mustache looks like when he's batting .197 on the season.

 

And if you don't want to have to play with the kind of players that care about inspecting your playstyle, the tools become win/win - you know that you don't want to play with me when I comment on your performance, and I know I don't want to play with you when your performance is poor.

 

Quoted for truth; This has nothing to do with e-peen. This has something to do with the fact that I, as a tank, don't want to bust my behind off and play my very best only to see me outdamaging all our dps because the Vigilance specced guardian got an APM of 30, is in Soresu stance and haven't discovered any abilities beyond Slash, our Gunslinger doesn't use cover and our Jedi Shadow is using the wrong Combat Technique.

 

If they want to play that way, never improve their playstyle and subsequently go bat***** insane the moment I tell them to pull their weight, fine. I just want to know this straight away rather than spend two extra hours on an instance, with some added wipes most likely, I did speedily with another group just before.

 

But I guess those people would really, really, REALLY love a somewhat competent tank to drag them through instance after instance, so of course data measurement tools are not wanted by this crowd.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

The lack of proper tools to quantify you playing poorly does not rectify you playing poorly; it merely makes it difficult to detect.

 

If you care about flavor or style more than effectiveness, far be it from me to criticize you for your preferences, but what I don't understand is why players of that mindset want to secretly mingle with players who indeed are trying to play the game optimally. The optimization-minded players aren't trying to disguise themselves and mingle amongst the roleplayers.

 

If your playstyle can't withstand inspection, there's a reason for that. A game well played can be quantified. Nobody cares what a baseball player's mustache looks like when he's batting .197 on the season.

 

And if you don't want to have to play with the kind of players that care about inspecting your playstyle, the tools become win/win - you know that you don't want to play with me when I comment on your performance, and I know I don't want to play with you when your performance is poor.

 

I kinda second this school yard bully. As being the poster child for the reason why we do not need this. Now imagine if you put a tool in his hand to yell at people playing a VIDEO GAME. Can you imagine being in his vent in raid time. Listening to the endless babble about how much they are right and you are wrong.

 

Say NO to recount and this kinda attitude.The whole "detect's bad gameplay" OMG this person truely has lost all grip with reality. I shudder to think of the clones of his attitude.

[spelcast]

And this is why we don't need them... These sort of bullies that need to call people out, that need to point fingers and make sure everyone plays the way they believe it should be.

 

Secondly, you don't know my style or my skill level, as I don't know yours. For all we know I will beat you hands down every time!

 

The only reason you need a meter is for you epeen!

 

With DPS meter you can see if you beat him "hands down every time", right now we can only speculate. Pointing out that your are not doing as much DPS as you should you call bulling, but your perfectly fine with holding 7 or 15 people down because of your spec or bad rotation and waisting their time, thats hypocrisy.

Anyway i want personal DPS meter and don't really care about others i playing with peoples that put a little effort in the game and i know that they while use recount or whatever you call it to get better at game.

[freekyjason]

Don't need an Epeen meter

 

Hey WoW has recount you could always go play that

 

indeed, no need for it here. the game is playable and still enjoyable without it.

[Maltuvion]

I kinda second this school yard bully. As being the poster child for the reason why we do not need this. Now imagine if you put a tool in his hand to yell at people playing a VIDEO GAME. Can you imagine being in his vent in raid time. Listening to the endless babble about how much they are right and you are wrong.

 

Say NO to recount and this kinda attitude.The whole "detect's bad gameplay" OMG this person truely has lost all grip with reality. I shudder to think of the clones of his attitude.

 

Well, Imagine a raiding guild. They're on a raid. If 14 people pull their weight in a raid and Cell-Dwelling Brother A and Cell-Dwelling Brother B, stoned up and high on an attitude of "don't worry, we'll make it bro, there's room for everybody in here" do crap dps, leading to an obscene amount of wipes on said boss... Why shouldn't they be told? Why should the charade continue just because some people want to mingle with the more serious gaming segment yet don't want to adopt the attitudes that go with it?

 

More importantly, why blame the community for wanting measurement tools as to what is optimal where there clearly exists an optimal way to play the game? Recount is naturally a sought-after commodity because Bioware has made it so that your choices of play matter. Had they wanted no recount, they shouldn't have created optimal playstyles.

 

More importantly, why do you want people left in the dark as to how each other play? God forbid, you might LEARN SOMETHING?! Shocking, I know, but try to wrap your mind around it. And, if you are absolutely hellbent on not learning anything, never optimizing the playstyle you developed during its levelling infancy, you can simply choose not to group with the people who actually seek to better their game. Who actually appreciate knowledge rather than censorship.

 

This whole debate has an eerie resemblance to the catholic church (anti-recount) killing people (the pro-recount) saying the earth is round. Only this taking place in an era of spaceships (which the catholic church wants moored so that we'll never know), where it's actually possible to determine visually.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Maltuvion

[RachelAnne]

The lack of proper tools to quantify you playing poorly does not rectify you playing poorly; it merely makes it difficult to detect.

 

If you care about flavor or style more than effectiveness, far be it from me to criticize you for your preferences, but what I don't understand is why players of that mindset want to secretly mingle with players who indeed are trying to play the game optimally. The optimization-minded players aren't trying to disguise themselves and mingle amongst the roleplayers.

 

If your playstyle can't withstand inspection, there's a reason for that. A game well played can be quantified. Nobody cares what a baseball player's mustache looks like when he's batting .197 on the season.

 

And if you don't want to have to play with the kind of players that care about inspecting your playstyle, the tools become win/win - you know that you don't want to play with me when I comment on your performance, and I know I don't want to play with you when your performance is poor.

 

With such elitist blabla you give BW the best reason why such addons should never be implemented.

You have absolutely no respect for other humans that play a game, its just sad. I hope they really watch the forums, you do us all a favor every time when you post such elitism stuff, thank you!

 

How the pro people here write about others, its disgusting. If you would put half your elitism behaivour into your performance, you would not need addons to succeed in games.

Edited January 9, 2012 by RachelAnne

[YzenDanek]

I kinda second this school yard bully. As being the poster child for the reason why we do not need this. Now imagine if you put a tool in his hand to yell at people playing a VIDEO GAME. Can you imagine being in his vent in raid time. Listening to the endless babble about how much they are right and you are wrong.

 

Say NO to recount and this kinda attitude.The whole "detect's bad gameplay" OMG this person truely has lost all grip with reality. I shudder to think of the clones of his attitude.

 

Quite the opposite. If you want to see a total meltdown on vent, raid with a group of people that won't use the tools, where instead of the finger being properly pointed, it's pointed everywhere.

 

I've seen it. It's ugly. It's mean. And it's completely unfair to the people playing well who are being wrongfully accused of screwing up by a bunch of people pulling excuses out of their collective holes.

 

In any game with challenging content, there are going to be failed attempts to beat something. Typically lots of them. With every failure, the group has to try to fix what went wrong, and that means asking players to improve. For some reason, you seem to think that it's unfair to use proper tools to call out players who were making mistakes or playing poorly. Personally, I think it's way more unfair to call out players who weren't.

Edited January 9, 2012 by YzenDanek

[Maltuvion]

With such elitist blabla you give BW the best reason why such addons should never be implemented.

You have absolutely no respect for other humans that play a game, its just sad. I hope they really watch the forums, you do us all a favor every time when you post such elitism stuff, thank you!

 

On the contrary, I think he has far more respect for the various player-segments than you do. In fact, I think it's you who lacks fundamental decency and respect.

[Thaed]

And this is why we don't need them... These sort of bullies that need to call people out, that need to point fingers and make sure everyone plays the way they believe it should be.

 

Secondly, you don't know my style or my skill level, as I don't know yours. For all we know I will beat you hands down every time!

 

The only reason you need a meter is for you epeen!

 

We're taking on a boss that requires the six dps players to be pulling 1000 dps apiece and we're constanly hitting the enrage timer and wiping. Two scenarios:

 

a) You're pulling 1200 dps due to your skill level, but no-one knows this because there is no recount. A better geared player is pulling 600 dps and letting the raid down. Who does the raid leader kick in order to progress? The guy with the least gear: You.

 

b) You're pulling 1200 dps due to your skill level and everyone can see this due to recount. A better geared player is pulling 600 dps and letting the raid down. Who does the raid leader kick? The guy pulling 600 dps.

 

Unless the raid group decides to split up due to not progressing, someone is going to get kicked. Without recount, there's more possibility of a good player getting the boot than a bad one. Recount is not a bad thing.

 

Yes, you will encounter players that criticize your dps. They're the same people that bag you out for your green helm, but at least with recount you have a chance to prove them wrong.

[Rannasha]

With such elitist blabla you give BW the best reason why such addons should never be implemented.

You have absolutely no respect for other humans that play a game, its just sad. I hope they really watch the forums, you do us all a favor every time when you post such elitism stuff, thank you!

 

How the pro people here write about others, its disgusting. If you would put half your elitism behaivour into your performance, you would not need addons to succeed in games.

 

Actually, the person you're responding to makes a lot of sense. He's saying that there are different types of players and that people should play with other players that have the same preferences and goals ingame.

 

There are the opmization-focused players (often called elitists by those not of the same player-type). They want to push the top DPS numbers and have the right gear / spec /mods. They want to beat the hardest content. These players need and want a tool like Recount to help them optimize their performance.

 

Then there's the laid-back / RP players. They just want to hang out, explore the world, chat with friends, level alts to enjoy the other class quests, etc... These players don't need Recount at all and they won't really come into many situations where its use can be detrimental to them.

 

Both are perfectly fine ways to play the game. A good game will cater to both kinds. The optimization players will generally be quite outspoken about their preference: They'll discuss gear, performance, tactics openly. They won't be mistaken for RP-players easily. There's a ton of laid-back players that know that their playstyle isn't well-suited for the high-end content and consequently they won't focus on it.

 

The problem comes with the fact that there are plenty of players that want to do the high-end content, but that are unwilling to put in the effort that it requires. They'll play with a suboptimal spec or weird gear because it is their "style". If you mix these players with the optimization-players, you'll get conflicts. The boss doesn't die and noone knows why. With a Recount-like tool, the group can determine who is pulling their weight and who isn't and adjust their setup accordingly.

 

This means that it's easier for the players to be sorted into groups that suit their playing style. The hardcore players will have the tool they need. The laid-back players have a tool they won't need, but that won't bother them. The only people negatively affected will be the freeloaders, that want to do the challenging high-end content, but don't want to put in any effort.

 

And I don't see the problem with that.

 

And this, RachelAnne, is exactly what the person you quoted was trying to say, but in less words. In most of the games I've played, it's typically the hardcore players that have the most respect for other playing styles. They have a simple requirement though: If you want to tag along, pull your own weight.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Rannasha

[Maltuvion]

Actually, the person you're responding to makes a lot of sense. He's saying that there are different types of players and that people should play with other players that have the same preferences and goals ingame.

 

There are the opmization-focused players (often called elitists by those not of the same player-type). They want to push the top DPS numbers and have the right gear / spec /mods. They want to beat the hardest content. These players need and want a tool like Recount to help them optimize their performance.

 

Then there's the laid-back / RP players. They just want to hang out, explore the world, chat with friends, level alts to enjoy the other class quests, etc... These players don't need Recount at all and they won't really come into many situations where its use can be detrimental to them.

 

Both are perfectly fine ways to play the game. A good game will cater to both kinds. The optimization players will generally be quite outspoken about their preference: They'll discuss gear, performance, tactics openly. They won't be mistaken for RP-players easily. There's a ton of laid-back players that know that their playstyle isn't well-suited for the high-end content and consequently they won't focus on it.

 

The problem comes with the fact that there are plenty of players that want to do the high-end content, but that are unwilling to put in the effort that it requires. They'll play with a suboptimal spec or weird gear because it is their "style". If you mix these players with the optimization-players, you'll get conflicts. The boss doesn't die and noone knows why. With a Recount-like tool, the group can determine who is pulling their weight and who isn't and adjust their setup accordingly.

 

This means that it's easier for the players to be sorted into groups that suit their playing style. The hardcore players will have the tool they need. The laid-back players have a tool they won't need, but that won't bother them. The only people negatively affected will be the freeloaders, that want to do the challenging high-end content, but don't want to put in any effort.

 

And I don't see the problem with that.

 

And this, RachelAnne, is exactly what the person you quoted was trying to say, but in less words. In most of the games I've played, it's typically the hardcore players that have the most respect for other playing styles. They have a simple requirement though: If you want to tag along, pull your own weight.

 

One of the best, most coherent, most sensical posts made in a long time on these forums.

[Hairless]

I HAVE THE SOLUTION

 

We get in-game meters but the group/raid leader has the option to enable/disable it.

Furthermore, unanimous vote will be required to change the option and there should be a very visible indicator that informs the players whether the group/raid has meters disabled/enabled.

 

LFM Eternity Vault pug run. Meters disabled.

 

LFM Eternity Vault pug run. Meters enabled.

 

Now everyone can be happy.

[Circusmaximus]

I do not support 3rd party mods under any circumstances. I would support in game mod type features IF, and ONLY IF, it is virtually impossible to use them for anything but data analysis for ones self. But I do not really believe that is what is advocated for by those who are advocating. People want these as an instrument (directly or indirectly) of power over other players, often in the guise of "good for raid performance and progression".

 

Exactly. No 3rd Party Mods Ever. Play your toon, and bring your A-Game. We don't really need a numbers breakdown.

[Bonev]

To put it simple I do not support the implementation of the suggested tools in the game. The reasons I do not are pretty selfish. I will enjoy the game more and for longer if they are not implemented. I guess that is the reason everyone is using even if they say it's for the betterment of the game

 

I enjoy spending time improving my game play and trying to beat hard content. It's not the destination that is important, it's the journey. Having such a tool will cut this time by a lot regardless if I am playing with friends or strangers. If such tools are implemented I will use them, read guides about them and cut trough the content much faster. I know that it is possible to still do it the hard way with friends if we all agree to, but as mentioned by a lot people before me we will be a burden to others when playing outside of our group, so this is not an option.

 

Something that should be considered is that if such tools are implemented the difficulty level of content might need an adjustment as it would become too easy for some. Others that don't use these tools might find it almost impossible. This was the mandatory logical defense of my selfish reasons

 

I guess it all comes down to the question if you enjoy trying to beat Hard stuff or prefer just beating the crap out of it as fast as possible. I am happy it is not implemented yet and will enjoy it while it lasts.

 

Cheers!

[ThanosTitan]

When your on Hard FP wipe number 6 and four people are all randomly guessing at the problem and getting nowhere, that really builds my sense of SWTOR community. Oh no wait it makes me not even want to bother......