YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Raiding was a lot different before addons and a lot more fun. You wouldn't understand. Raiding is a paint by numbers experience in WoW. Very lame imo. Yes, I know exactly what recount is. Yes, it makes the game a lot easier. That's why you want it. You want to go from zero to optimal in 5 minutes. The time you describe never existed. Your ignorance that the tools were being used did not make them unimportant at the time. Logs have been parsed in real time since early in the MUD days. I was running a real time parser in EQ before Vox and Nagafen had even populated their respective homes, and so was the majority of players I was playing with. When Aradune helped Fires of Heaven beat Nagafen in the first real MMORPG raid encounter ever, there were damage meters to record the event. In short: damage meters predate raiding. You're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Seems to me the only reason for this post is to start another argument between the anti-addon crowd and the pro-addon crowd. You wont change anyones mind with all this drama and talking down to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Seems to me the only reason for this post is to start another argument between the anti-addon crowd and the pro-addon crowd. You wont change anyones mind with all this drama and talking down to each other. I'm going to go ahead and say the the pro-addon crowd really doesn't think the anti-addon crowd has a reason to breathe air. Imagine baseball if it were considered against the spirit of the game to notice what a player's batting average was. Yes, it's just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) The time you describe never existed. Your ignorance that the tools were being used did not make them unimportant at the time. Logs have been parsed in real time since early in the MUD days. I was running a real time parser in EQ before Vox and Nagafen had even populated their respective homes, and so was the majority of players I was playing with. When Aradune helped Fires of Heaven beat Nagafen in the first real MMORPG raid encounter ever, there were damage meters to record the event. In short: damage meters predate raiding. You're wrong. A EQ player that isn't a Elitist Dbag O.O. I ignore people like that guy. Anyone who has raided seriously know the importance of a Parser. Edited January 9, 2012 by Chosenxeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Seems to me the only reason for this post is to start another argument between the anti-addon crowd and the pro-addon crowd. You wont change anyones mind with all this drama and talking down to each other. Naw. This entire thread is a proof that there is no valid argument against in-game meters. inb4 someone, for the 10000th time, misinterprets in-game meters as an addon that tell you what to do during a boss fight. Edited January 9, 2012 by Hairless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would not like addons to be used in or added to this game. They only make things more complicated in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 successfully inb4ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would not like addons to be used in or added to this game. They only make things more complicated in the end. In what way? 90% of them are information Modules. Is reading difficult for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 successfully inb4ed LOL you totally did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would not like addons to be used in or added to this game. They only make things more complicated in the end. Nobody ever wrote an addon to have fun on their behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Naw. This entire thread is a proof that there is no valid argument against in-game meters. inb4 someone, for the 10000th time, misinterprets in-game meters as an addon that tell you what to do during a boss fight. Dont quote me to try making your point son, I purposely didnt take sides because of people like you who will use anything to try to make their point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 In what way? 90% of them are information Modules. Is reading difficult for you? He voiced his opinion, which i might add is just as valid as yours, and you insulted him for it? classless my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 no, i will not allow add ons in my guild it creates a greedy selfish self centered community solely interested in numbers not people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingas Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yes. It's the only way to make PvE even remotely fun, especially the "PvE" in this game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashnira Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc. I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance. Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism. The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is... Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk? With Recount Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks. Without Recount Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS) - EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results. EDIT UPDATE: - During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG! People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game! I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly. People who don't like Recount. Solution : dont invite Jerk Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 He voiced his opinion, which i might add is just as valid as yours, and you insulted him for it? classless my friend There is no such thing as a valid appeal for ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draekos Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My vote is Meh. I used a meter in WoW, but I dont find it a big deal. I do wish we had a combat log to look at though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 There is no such thing as a valid appeal for ignorance. It doesnt matter how you phrase it , your hyperbole doesnt invalidate his opinion, so stop trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) It doesnt matter how you phrase it , your hyperbole doesnt invalidate his opinion, so stop trying And it doesn't matter how diplomatic you try to be, putting one's fingers in one's ears has never constituted an opinion. Disclosure is the natural order of things. An argument against disclosure might as well be an argument against inertia or entropy. Edited January 9, 2012 by YzenDanek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillbillySith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) And it doesn't matter how diplomatic you try to be, putting one's fingers in one's ears has never constituted an opinion. And by the same token shouting louder doesnt make your opinion more valid And since your obviously not grasping this, if you need to insult someone to make your point, your point is weak. Edited January 9, 2012 by HillbillySith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidyr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Definitely want some kind of damage meter, either by way of user mod (if modding is supported at some point) or an official Bioware UI option. I don't really give a damn about other peoples stats but getting better at a game is one of the primary joys I get out of the hobby, and an accurate measure of my growth would be excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) And by the same token shouting louder doesnt make your opinion more valid And since your obviously not grasping this, if you need to insult someone to make your point, your point is weak. Requests for disclosure are not opinion. Calling someone ignorant, or willfully ignorant, is not an insult; it's just fact. There is no exception wherein someone can want to be denied information and not be called willfully ignorant, by definition. Edited January 9, 2012 by YzenDanek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakito Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I was against it a while ago, but I'd really like to see if my rotations are right, see which one is the best, if I am falling behind if our boss enrages or is it someone else. Those kind of things. I don't like recount being the only thing players stare at, because it just pisses me off "woohoo! 18k dps!". I just want it to be more helpful in developing a good character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretorian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Damage (and healing) meters are to an MMO what religion is to humanity - nothing wrong with it per se, but it's a devastating tool in the hands of those who choose to abuse it. Thus we have the endless discussion of it's "to be or not to be". Personally, I vote yay with a modicum of hesitation. I'm a DPS myself and to me it's one of the fun aspects of being DPS - the competition against others. And no one can deny that you get a warm fuzzy feeling when see your name at the top and get lauded by your team mates. Unfortunately, we will always have those who take these things a step too far. Already now the phrase "must be good geared" is spouted in the channels, and with meters chances are that things get even worse. Even if a FP is doable with substandard gear, there will most certain emerge certain "unofficial" standard numbers you must fulfill or else be kicked. It won't matter what your arguments are or the fact that your team already has done 80% of the FP flawlessly, if the meters show you are under an expected DPS limit, you will get the boot. And what about those good players who also spend time CC-ing mobs that would most certainly threaten the outcome of the battle? Their DPS will be lower because they will be busy saving the necks of those who only have high numbers on their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Damage (and healing) meters are to an MMO what religion is to humanity - nothing wrong with it per se, but it's a devastating tool in the hands of those who choose to abuse it. Thus we have the endless discussion of it's "to be or not to be". Personally, I vote yay with a modicum of hesitation. I'm a DPS myself and to me it's one of the fun aspects of being DPS - the competition against others. And no one can deny that you get a warm fuzzy feeling when see your name at the top and get lauded by your team mates. Unfortunately, we will always have those who take these things a step too far. Already now the phrase "must be good geared" is spouted in the channels, and with meters chances are that things get even worse. Even if a FP is doable with substandard gear, there will most certain emerge certain "unofficial" standard numbers you must fulfill or else be kicked. It won't matter what your arguments are or the fact that your team already has done 80% of the FP flawlessly, if the meters show you are under an expected DPS limit, you will get the boot. And what about those good players who also spend time CC-ing mobs that would most certainly threaten the outcome of the battle? Their DPS will be lower because they will be busy saving the necks of those who only have high numbers on their mind. Information can be misinterpreted. Missing information can't be interpreted at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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