Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Hairless]

These claims of Recount abuse are grossly exaggerated.

 

I was a hardcore raider but I spent MORE TIME pugging stuff on my alt.

I spent 2 nights a week raiding with my guild and the rest of the week, including weekends, were spent on pugging on my alt. People just loved to pug with me and it was so fun.

 

I very rarely saw anyone get kicked for doing low dps. First of all, it's not like pugs were doing hard modes. We were pugging easy normal bosses that are usually one or two shot.

Of course there are always people who are on the bottom of the meters but who really gave a crap in pug raids?

The time it would have taken to replace baddie just wasn't worth it when we were still pretty much facerolling through the bosses.

 

The people who were kicked from pug runs were the really terrible players that were causing wipes over and over.

You know, the really terrible players who chained bloodboil everywhere, didn't dps adds, dpsing the wrong boss in multi-boss encounters.

 

If you were kicked for just doing lower dps, you must have been really really really bad.

[Nordoxx]

While an interesting mechanic that has nothing to do with optimizing performance in a raid environment. That wouldn't replace the typical raid encounter which addons such as Recount allow for performance optimization.

 

But if you lost the fight over and over, then you would know that you and your team mates needed better gear/rotation/raiding skill/teamplay. Since the other team would be winning all the time?? Hence, without any meters or other addons. You would know that you underperformed compared to the winning team.. Great for raiding and funstuffz, pvp, competition, and open world pvp if 1 of the teams came flagged and encouraged pvp. And you died in the pvp battle, the winning team would be alone with the boss while the other could try again 24 hours later. Since a lockout of some sort would be needed for the pvp aspect to work! Kickass! BW plx implant this naow!!

[Ritecud]

I strongly support the notion of an implemented version of Recount. These are my reasons:

 

Most people here seem to worry about people "under-performing". While I understand this could be interesting for competetive end-game guilds it's not what I think is most important about such a tool.

 

I would want it solely for my own convenience. I want to know what I am doing. I want to improve. Which of my abilities and talents make sense, which don't? Compared to people of the same class? Cross class? How often did I hit, how often did I get hit and by what? This is vital information for any competetive player, regardless of what others might think about you.

 

Without a tool like this all we can do is vague guesswork and we will never be able to play as effectively as we could. And while I am enjoying the storyline a lot while leveling, the biggest part of this game, what'll keep people attached to it for years WILL be endgame. And endgame is all about playing effectively.

[Mastodonic]

I'd like it purely to assess my own output. It's an easy and informative way to test specs, skill priority/rotation and gear changes without speculation.

[Adamant]

I do not support this.

 

Causes people to go into "elitist jerk" mode.

 

That is all.

[Hairless]

I do not support this.

 

Causes people to go into "elitist jerk" mode.

 

That is all.

 

I HAVE THE SOLUTION

 

We get in-game meters but the group/raid leader has the option to enable/disable it.

Furthermore, unanimous vote will be required to change the option and there should be a very visible indicator that informs the players whether the group/raid has meters disabled/enabled.

 

LFM Eternity Vault pug run. Meters disabled.

 

LFM Eternity Vault pug run. Meters enabled.

 

Now everyone can be happy.

[SoullessCaptain]

I would like to throw my 2 cents in to this. First let me say that I raid with some pretty serious raiders in world of warcraft. I am what you might call a more serious player of the game and never once in a pug have used recount or anything else to put down others. Even on my alts when i run into serious players who have gear they dont do the kind of behavior that many think recount makes people do. That said I have had people go off in pugs like o you noob you cant do X dps on that toon cause in that gear i was doing 4 times X dps. These people that do that will do that kind of thing no matter what. From "oh you noob get out the firez!!" when you were moving out ne way to "zomg why am i the only one hiting this boss" to other stupid comments that im not good at thinking of. Truth is people will do this no matter what they are called either trolls, children, or just immature players and they are apart of the modern mmo world and as much as i wish they would go away they just aren't. So as a serious raider i would love a tool for seeing my performance in a raid and others as well so that we can help each other get better.

 

To sum up the giant wall of text: Recount, i don't want.....I use skada and would like a skada type addon in the default ui. Really would prefer no third party addons.

[Hairless]

Recount, i don't want.....I use skada and would like a skada type addon in the default ui. Really would prefer no third party addons.

 

the irony is intentional right?

[Mastodonic]

I do not support this.

 

Does not allow people to drag their feet and slack of in a group environment.

 

That is all.

 

Fix'd for you.

 

But on a more serious note, when i read comments like yours I instinctively envision the inverse scenario whereby there is no accountability in a group.

 

Allow a situation where the community decides how it will play. Either allow third party mods and people can choose to run with them or not, or integrate meters into the UI and allow the group leader to enable/disable them. Don't like meters? Run your own groups without them. But taking the choice out of the players hand in what is essentially a MMO staple is archaic.

[Hairless]

Can't wait to have some meaningful discussion in the class forums, instead of every one just throwing out their speculations.

[_Hezz_]

I must say i'd be glad having such a tool for my PERSONAL purpose (test spec, etc... I'm a sentinel and i find it hard to believe that no one has an idea of with spec is the best for pve / pvp in terms of dmg).

 

People doesnt want it to be a tool to point other players dps ? Fine !! Just give us intel on OUR OWN dps / heal at least.

[Thealliance]

I must say i'd be glad having such a tool for my PERSONAL purpose (test spec, etc... I'm a sentinel and i find it hard to believe that no one has an idea of with spec is the best for pve / pvp in terms of dmg).

 

People doesnt want it to be a tool to point other players dps ? Fine !! Just give us intel on OUR OWN dps / heal at least.

 

I wouldn't mind this. It's important to know how you are preforming if you want to get better. As soon as you post the information to other players, it becomes an internal competition that hurts far more than it helps. I don't care if the guy I'm with has poor dps if he's at least trying to do his job.

[Setanian]

I've taken to thinking of them as MMO Romantics. They want to return to that first magical day they discovered EQ and escape from the hustle and bustle of a mature, developed genre metagame. It's actually kind of a beautiful mindset if it didn't result in people having such stupid stances on specific issues.

 

Hang on a second! In Eq players have no add-ons at all, and still manage perfectly to raid.

 

I kind of like to think as the proponents of such add-ons as players who cannot raid unless they have tools to tell them how to play.

 

Try a few years eq1 raiding and then come back, not a care-bear wow game.

[Hairless]

Hang on a second! In Eq players have no add-ons at all, and still manage perfectly to raid.

 

I kind of like to think as the proponents of such add-ons as players who cannot raid unless they have tools to tell them how to play.

 

Try a few years eq1 raiding and then come back, not a care-bear wow game.

 

Wasn't EQ1 raiding all time-sink and very little skill involved?

 

This game has WoW style raiding, not EQ1.

Btw, this thread is about in-game meters. Meters don't tell us how to play. Meters don't even need to be visible during combat. You don't understand why people want it.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Recount is a weakness

[Rhinomcd]

Love the idea

[Sycharis]

You have a bowl of vanilla pudding. You like vanilla pudding just the way it is. You've enjoyed it for a while and have a bowl every day. One day, someone asks if you'd like some Nilla Wafers to put in your pudding - others have tried it and enjoy it and someone is extending this courtesy to you. Instead, you slap the box of Nilla Wafers out of their hand, flipping your pudding off the table.

 

"This is my pudding and I'll eat it the way I like it! You can't tell me how I should eat it! It's perfect how it is, it doesn't need ANYTHING WITH IT. I don't care if other people's experiences are enriched by Nilla Wafers, no one should eat them because then people who don't eat them will feel ostracized by those that do, so NO ONE gets them."

[Chosenxeno]

Hang on a second! In Eq players have no add-ons at all, and still manage perfectly to raid.

 

I kind of like to think as the proponents of such add-ons as players who cannot raid unless they have tools to tell them how to play.

 

Try a few years eq1 raiding and then come back, not a care-bear wow game.

 

This is why everyone hates EQ people. The rest of the MMO population have lives bro. Grats on surviving the time sink that was EQ.

 

If EQ was as great as EQ players make it out to be then it would have taken more than just WOW to all but kill it. EQ never came close to WOW's Subscription base. WOW is almost 8 years old and it's just starting to see a decline in population.

 

So I guess harder and more cumbersome isn't as great as you think it is. If it was people would still be there but they all jumped ship at literally, the 1st chance they got.

 

Oh yea I also have a Max Character in Rift too. I kinda like MMOs that allow time for things like Working, a Social life and Bathing. Not enough people killed themselves over WOW for it to be as great as EQ I guess.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

This is why everyone hates EQ people. The rest of the MMO population have lives bro. Grats on surviving the time sink that was EQ.

 

If EQ was as great as EQ players make it out to be then it would have taken more than just WOW to all but kill it. EQ never came close to WOW's Subscription base. WOW is almost 8 years old and it's just starting to see a decline in population.

 

So I guess harder and more cumbersome isn't as great as you think it is. If it was people would still be there but they all jumped ship at literally, the 1st chance they got.

 

Oh yea I also have a Max Character in Rift too. I kinda like MMOs that allow time for things like Working, a Social life and Bathing. Not enough people killed themselves over WOW for it to be as great as EQ I guess.

 

Blah Blah..EQ was KING. Warcraft simply took everything that existed and put it into a new game. People don't realize that other people hated ADD ON's. They don't seem to understand that warcraft (Boasting about the number of subs) is bleeding them and alot of them came from CHINA or other places where accounts costed pennys.

 

This is NOT warcraft. A new game. If this company want's to throw money away. By all means add the recount. I promise you people will discouraged from raiding. The most crictal and important thing to keep everyone interactive. How can they when strangers turn them down based on DPS. Game isn't even a full month old.

 

I am simply, shocked at the number of people that need this tool. And even more shocked that people downing content like crazy. Actually no real reason for this but yet they want it. What could you do with it at this stage in the game.

 

I couldn't care lesss about recount. I do CARE however about people FORCING this on a new community. On a new company. Yet in their experience they might actually think it's a good idea. Then BOOM! people turned away because of it.

 

Simply put, it's a bad idea and only reason thread's like this are kept open because of the People against it so strongly and the few "raiders" that think it's a good idea. It's a horrible one. Ask Rift. Once they added this. Their sub's went down. It's horrible to the community.

[Hairless]

It's horrible to the community.

 

Yeah because the better community is where everyone judge others by their gear and not their actual performance.

 

We will see endless complaints of "I can't get into any raids because they all say my gear isn't good enough'.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Hairless

[KURLS]

sure put it in the prove nothing regarding skill.

 

They are effective in the following

 

1. singling out players who don't perform (understandable) but not in the spirit of gameplay/community.

2. creating lines like this in general chat "Some raid LF DPS must do over xxx" instantly excluding most of the community.

3. My e-peen is bigger than yours, despite the fact your class by design does more dps than mine which is a hybrid/debuffer or whatever.

4. Look my number states the obvious.

 

point 2 makes for some pretty terrible communities if you ask me.

 

Who cares your raid was short on numbers, take a chance, you never know that random slot you just filled might turn out to be a pretty good player.

or

That random tank, we'll have to get him along next time.

or

Wow This sage is struggling perhaps we can help him out with some pointers.

 

ad infinitum

[Chosenxeno]

Blah Blah..EQ was KING. Warcraft simply took everything that existed and put it into a new game. People don't realize that other people hated ADD ON's. They don't seem to understand that warcraft (Boasting about the number of subs) is bleeding them and alot of them came from CHINA or other places where accounts costed pennys.

 

This is NOT warcraft. A new game. If this company want's to throw money away. By all means add the recount. I promise you people will discouraged from raiding. The most crictal and important thing to keep everyone interactive. How can they when strangers turn them down based on DPS. Game isn't even a full month old.

 

I am simply, shocked at the number of people that need this tool. And even more shocked that people downing content like crazy. Actually no real reason for this but yet they want it. What could you do with it at this stage in the game.

 

I couldn't care lesss about recount. I do CARE however about people FORCING this on a new community. On a new company. Yet in their experience they might actually think it's a good idea. Then BOOM! people turned away because of it.

 

Simply put, it's a bad idea and only reason thread's like this are kept open because of the People against it so strongly and the few "raiders" that think it's a good idea. It's a horrible one. Ask Rift. Once they added this. Their sub's went down. It's horrible to the community.

 

EQ was not as great as you people think. It's 1st competitor killed it( Psh some King *guffaws*). Noone cares what WOW borrowed anymore. The fact is it's a better game than EQ because it's more accessible and better streamlined than EQ. WOW killed EQ before it had addons. <---This always gets left out of the equation when EQ players are namecalling WOW players as carebears.

 

WOW basically killed EQ when it was being played at a level acceptable by EQ Players that brag about how they don't need addons. No addon by your standards means hardcore right? So WOW killed that garbage game when it was at IT'S MOST Hardcore. I don't wanna hear this debate again. Hardcore WOW, the masochistic, no Addons, raid 6 days a week(yep people really were) to clear Molten Core is the WOW that killed EQ. Not the more Accessible "Care Bear" as you call it, version we have today. So yea maybe EQ isn't as great as you think it is. You may now dismount your High Horse.

 

 

Edit: I have a Max level Character in Rift. Rift died because they decided to fence-sit on the issue of Addons and Macros. by the time they did players were already back in WOW. So I guess we know what happens when people take the WOW-Haters advice(most of which have never played WOW End Game on any MMO game's End Game including EQ.) and "Go back to WOW".

 

/THREAD!

Edited January 9, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Mastodonic]

You have a bowl of vanilla pudding. You like vanilla pudding just the way it is. You've enjoyed it for a while and have a bowl every day. One day, someone asks if you'd like some Nilla Wafers to put in your pudding - others have tried it and enjoy it and someone is extending this courtesy to you. Instead, you slap the box of Nilla Wafers out of their hand, flipping your pudding off the table.

 

"This is my pudding and I'll eat it the way I like it! You can't tell me how I should eat it! It's perfect how it is, it doesn't need ANYTHING WITH IT. I don't care if other people's experiences are enriched by Nilla Wafers, no one should eat them because then people who don't eat them will feel ostracized by those that do, so NO ONE gets them."

 

HAHA, this made me smile @ work. good job

[Byker]

keep the playing field level. Everyone has the same interface now and the skill of a player is down to how best he uses it.

Plus it's a pain in the baside having to reinstall loads of addons every time the game is patched.

[Xebarrn]

Would i like to see addons/dps meters? Personally, no. However, for those who want to tweak their own personal performance, I would support a self-only DPS/heal meter, which only tracks that account's perfomance, and is only displayed to that person.

 

To address those guilds that use it as a tool to improve their raid performane, my personal preference would be to have an instanced zone set up with a mob/mobs, whose parameters can be set by the person leading the raid. Combat logs/performance can be made available only inside this zone, either to the raid leader, or to the whole force. Obviously, no loot, as it's a training type area so the leader can address any issues they have/tweak the force as they see fit, and content isn't balanced around add-on useage.