why slicing doesnt stack up to other "gathering" crew skills

[Boshlord]

I first want to say that slicing might have been over powered in its original state not because of the amount of credits returned from missions but the lack of actual level requirements on missions. I originally planned on taking slicing while leveling and leaving out archeology (my crafting skill is artifice and on an alt I have biochem). Anyways in the short time (in the span of an average mmos life) that the game has been out here is what I've gathered.

 

Slicing currently (and originally) was going to be forced to be surpassed by almost any other gathering profession in terms of profitabily. As in any game as money supply increases (along with willingness to spend excess income) prices are determined to increase. I have noticed in the last 2 weeks prices of mats has almost doubled and slicing has a set amount of income from missions and credit boxes. If this rate would even slow to doubling another time by the maturity stage of the game then slicing will easily be surpassed because the mats from other professions are starting to sell for profit on the gtn (if you do smart crafting techniques). So in short there is no real way to get inflation inserted into slicing.

 

The next point goes along with the fact that there is no inflation and that is there is no resource gathered. Having no materials slicers can sale (besides augments but that's laughable) leaves use to either go out and gather or do crew missions and get almost no return.

 

The usefulness of slicing was that it could be paired with any crafting to avoid over polluting the servers with resources and that it could be used to cover costs of daily activites such as repairs, training skills, and ect. However now that other gathering skills can be more profitable on the gtn people started feeling like they had to start working the gtn with other skills.

 

Now a proposed fix to this broken professions would be do away with locked box missions and add in 2 categories of gathering and that be other gathering/mission recipes and schematics. Also I believe schematics could reach every profession. Why couldn't you hack a med center for how to create med packs for example. Locked boxes could continue being the gathering part of the profession

[Boshlord]

Thoughts?

[Arell]

Just copy-pasting my reply to another slicing thread ^^

 

I really don't get why people make a deal about these credit boxes.

 

As a pure example, a guildie of mine has slicing and he sent his companion on a mission which according to him took roughly 2h 20m. For the record, this is what he believed it to be, though he was unsure whether it was that exact timeframe. Suffice to say, it was a mission of the highest possible slicing mission levels. When his companion returned, it had a credit box with 7k creds.

 

Now some people may feel that is a lot of creds. I for one really do not agree with this. Even if this was a 30 minute mission it still wouldn't be a lot. Why you might ask. Most elite level mobs in the starter sector of Corellia drop as much as upto 1.5k creds each already, and they take me roughly 20-60 seconds each to kill. I have to add that I dinged 50 last night, but I am nowhere close to be equipped with even a full set of level 50 greens. I imagine they die even faster. Suddenly those 7k creds as reward for the time it took to complete the mission seems rather low.

 

Another example, I remember looting a chest on Alderaan, guarded by an elite. Alderaan is a huge difference in level compared to Corellia. The elite dropped 1,5k creds, and in the chest were 3k creds. Both the elite and the chest are on a very short respawn timer. I am aware that these chests have random amounts of creds, same goes for the amount of creds dropped by mobs.

 

Another example, Hoth. There's a heroic quest there, I don't remember the name or whether it was 2+ or 4 heroic - doesn't really matter (For those interested in specifics, it's the one where you have to rescue several npc's from I believe Mandalorians). At level 46 I was solo'ing it pretty well for the most part. Some groups consisted of 3-4 elites and as much as upto 3 strong mobs were too much for me to survie so I skipped those. Anyhow, this particular instanced heroic quest has I believe 4-5 champions which had no or 1 additional add with them.

 

Those were all solo'able with a bit of practise. Granted they had quite a bit of health, I believe upto as much as 125k HP each, which made the fights last quite a few mins (if I'd have to guess as much as upto 6 mins). But these drop a fair amount of creds each, and often they drop some nice stuff aswell. One of them even dropped an artifact item, a custom chest and a greeny (and creds ofc). Granted that had some luck involved, but resetting my quest allowed me to kill them again, this time another artifact item, a prototype item and some greens. And they dropped plenty of creds each.

 

Looking back at slicing after doing just some of these things, makes slicing feel quite underwhelming compared to all the whines I've been reading on the forums about how OP it supposedly is. Keep in mind, the above examples are just a few, and I'm quite sure there's plenty of other and/or more lucrative ways of making money than slicing. Atleast, as far as credit boxes alone go.

[DarksideniYokoso]

As it currently stands, slicing is a skill to help lower level players, it will inevitably be dropped long before level 50. Even the largest credit boxes (5-6k) won't make a dent for level 50 players, even if they gather them for free from nodes.

 

There is no need to drop lockboxes from Slicing, Slicing never was OP without players exploiting (See Ilum) and Bioware has made it clear they will ban for such exploits. Augments will eventually become more valuable, though without some new rare augments with better stats they will never become a major source of income. Crafting missions aren't a great source of income either. I can already tell some crafts have learned that they don't need those rare and (somewhat) expensive crafting missions which send away your crew for 2 hours or more for a marginal increase to your rewards. Over time players will learn which missions (if any) are of true value and slicing will be further hurt when players stop buying those crafting missions.

 

That leaves only the cybertech schematics, which are still pretty decent at this point in the game (Cybertech 400 schematics sell for ~6k atm, though they do not sell quickly). This will not remain a viable source of income either. Level capping Slicing would hurt the skill even more, again it's primary role right now is aid for players prior to level 30.

 

I see nothing wrong with this. Leave slicing as it is, let low level players enjoy the benefits then dump it later on. Since a level 20 can attain 400 slicing pretty easily, there will never be a shortage of Augments available if and when players demand for augments goes up (and it should, when players start looking for ways to squeeze out a few more stat points). Schematics and missions will still become available. 6 months from now, slicing will probably need a boost from the devs. Until then, it's fine as is and slicing is and wasn't OP unless you actively exploited the game.

[Medianoche]

Slicing is useless.

 

I've run 50 missions on abundant/bountiful/rich with 3 companions, one of them with 8000+ affection.

After NINE hours of real time with 3 companions ( 27 hours of mission time ) I got a profit of 17.000 Credits, 2 purple missions and 1 schematic.

 

If I've spent the same time with scavenging/archeology/etc I would have get far more money than that.

 

Also the Slicing nodes are as half as usual as scavenging ones.

 

 

I've said this several times: The problem with Slicing WAS that you can RUN missions while disconnected.

If they make it so missions could not be run while not actually playing the character the problem would have been resolved.

[Erathorn]

I agree with all of the above posts. I don't think it was OP if used on a regular basis as you were playing, but having people cycling through their alts non stop doing nothing but credit farming was. I would support removing the lockbox missions if the schematics/mission discoveries and augments were worth selling. That would help shut up the people complaining that all it does is print money....

 

Of course my other idea would be to have all the other gathering missions require you to put in some of the material you want to have them go gather...say 10 of the item...and then it can return anywhere from 5-15, up to 20 with a crit. Numbers can be adjusted. Then the other gathering professions can feel what it's like to lose money and not get and item back.

 

Also just as an aside I've noticed that the slicing nodes in the world don't respawn as fast as the other nodes (scavaging from what I've seen). Test it and see....havest 2 different nodes and wait, the slicing node will take almost twice as long to come back.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Erathorn

[Medianoche]

I've said this several times: The problem with Slicing WAS that you can RUN missions while disconnected.

If they make it so missions could not be run while not actually playing the character the problem would have been resolved.

 

I agree with all of the above posts. I don't think it was OP if used on a regular basis as you were playing, but having people cycling through their alts non stop doing nothing but credit farming was.

 

 

 

THIS.

 

Easier to understand for those with narrow minds.

[Dorkfrey]

I agree with all of the above posts. I don't think it was OP if used on a regular basis as you were playing, but having people cycling through their alts non stop doing nothing but credit farming was. I would support removing the lockbox missions if the schematics/mission discoveries and augments were worth selling. That would help shut up the people complaining that all it does is print money....

 

Of course my other idea would be to have all the other gathering missions require you to put in some of the material you want to have them go gather...say 10 of the item...and then it can return anywhere from 5-15, up to 20 with a crit. Numbers can be adjusted. Then the other gathering professions can feel what it's like to lose money and not get and item back.

 

Also just as an aside I've noticed that the slicing nodes in the world don't respawn as fast as the other nodes (scavaging from what I've seen). Test it and see....havest 2 different nodes and wait, the slicing node will take almost twice as long to come back.

 

One of the biggest problems with slicing was: PERCEPTION.

 

Mainly - the ignorant's perception of it as a crewskill. It generated credits. And they couldn't see - other crewskills generating credits - via creating items of value.

 

I had an hour long discussion with someone - while on a train over this subject, and he couldn't see the "value" in say - Archaeology - getting materials that the vendor would sell for 100+c each, when the mission cost ~400c, and would return 10+ items. Or companion gifts either.

 

He could only see "credits" (and not the benefit of running Arch missions for crewskills goods). And for that reason, felt the hack job BW did was entirely justified. He couldn't appreciate the value of Companion Gifts either.

 

And damn, now I've said that Archaeology gets something for free, that neets a nerf too. Along with TH, and UWT etc.

 

The biggest problem with Slicing was purely people's "perception" of it. If it had been introduced to the game as it was pre nerf - when everyone was 50, no one would have batted an eyelid. Because they would be seeing it from the perception of people who had 50's with a level 50's income (and could understand the value of other crewskills). Other things would be generating "free" credits for them, and more efficiently, and by that time, they'd have learned to appreciate the value of other tradeskills.

 

Alas - I think Bioware was ahead of it's time with the ability, and didn't have the kahoona's (by that I mean: ********s, balls, bollocks or just belief in their own product) to stand by it proudly. Note the absolute silence coming from them.

[Medianoche]

Note the absolute silence coming from them.

 

Note that there have been a few that answered that 'silence' removing their subscription.

I did as our voice needs to be heared and it seems that was the only option left.

 

If BW answers every runt from QQers and idiots nerfing things without looking for a proper solution the future of this game is very very very bad.

Age of Conan's Dev did the same. And the game failed. Hope BW's doesn't follow that path.

Luckily for them, it is a Star Wars trademark...

[Hoosenutz]

Not even Lucas can save this game.

[Dorkfrey]

Note that there have been a few that answered that 'silence' removing their subscription.

I did as our voice needs to be heared and it seems that was the only option left.

 

If BW answers every runt from QQers and idiots nerfing things without looking for a proper solution the future of this game is very very very bad.

Age of Conan's Dev did the same. And the game failed. Hope BW's doesn't follow that path.

Luckily for them, it is a Star Wars trademark...

 

I'm of two minds at the moment on that subject.

 

I genuinely think this has probably been the single best "release" of an MMO that I've seen, dating back to UO. And yes - I've been playing MMO's for that long.

 

The best solution for each problem that comes up, isn't always just to bury your head in the sand, but I suspect BW/EA are copying Blizzard's take on this.

 

However - the fact that they seem to be copying Blizzard's take on this, put's my nose out. We're paying to play and bugfix a BETA game for them - and they're not responding to us. There's no dialog. There's occasional action - but it follows the "short term" success route - which never leads to "long term" gaming.

 

Truly - if Bioware would have made a statement saying: "Well actually, this would have been out of line with a 50's basic income." - I suspect the majority of people would have bought the lie (having seen the collected data myself and done some maths - well yeah, ignorance is bliss isn't it). Without hesistation. We'd have even forgiven them later when we found out the amounts of credits that slicing brought into the game was genuinely "taking a leak into the wind" for all the game breaking it was going to achieve.

 

I'm of two minds about this. What worries me more - and is making me think I really shouldn't re-subscribe is how they're still silent on the stack exploit. The fact that they've said nothing about it (On Twitter - just off the check the Dev tracker now to confirm this statement), makes me think they're just ignoring the problems the exploit has caused - and if that's how they're going to behave in future, then I REALLY don't want to be here in the long term.

[Vesperr]

Slicing isnt about making money, its about being useful. Money is just a bonus, a tip. If you want to make money get other another crew skill and sell stuff.

 

 

p.s. I wish slicing gave me more money (especially from nodes (2k on L50? ha-ha...)) but I like it anyway.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vesperr

[Medianoche]

Slicing isnt about making money, its about being useful. Money is just a bonus, a tip. If you want to make money get other another crew skill and sell stuff.

 

And could you Sir by any chance explain to all of us how comes Slicing is USEFUL in any way?

We would love to understand how a skill that gives money and useless items ( aka Augments ) is useful if you remove the 'gives money' part of it.

Enlighten us.

[Vesperr]

And could you Sir by any chance explain to all of us how comes Slicing is USEFUL in any way?

We would love to understand how a skill that gives money and useless items ( aka Augments ) is useful if you remove the 'gives money' part of it.

Enlighten us.

 

I'll just give a hint. Its not that useful for you. Also you dont lose money by sending all companions on 41-48 and 49-50 missions.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Vesperr

[Medianoche]

I'll just give a hint. Its not that useful for you.

Your hint was very welcome.

As a mather of fact it proved my initial suspicion that you don't have idea what you were talking about.

[Dorkfrey]

I'll just give a hint. Its not that useful for you. Also you dont lose money by sending all companions on 41-48 and 49-50 missions.

 

To be honest, I'd rather send my companions out doing something like TH or Arch or Scavenging, or UWT, or... than Slicing, since the "net value" it returns is much higher than Slicing gave me.

 

Yes - that means I have to pick my missions carefully. That means I have to know what I'm doing. And not always RE everything, instantly.

 

But - I make "more" getting credits in lieu than I would slicing and buying off vendors or the GTN.

 

As I said at the start, it's a matter of perception. I can perceive the wealth than something else garners me, by my taking it - that isn't in pure "credits" form.